Sam_MC

Yeah, it definitely got to a point where it felt like Marissa was just a convenient habit/fallback. Never the first choice.

Cristofle

It bothered me that they neither ever had Ryan leave a girl for Marissa or at least had it acknowledged while he was with her that he still had feelings for Marissa (this happened definitely with both Alex and Volchok on Marissa's side). But I also wish it was acknowledged that Marissa never had a gun to Ryan's head to make him get back with her, lol. It was often instigated by him, including their flirtations in the last episode that started the episode before where he called her after almost getting busted stealing a car because he knew she'd alibi him and not ask any questions. Marissa might have been a mess, but she wasn't the only mess and Ryan wasn't the only one who risked things or suffered being there for her.

dcfriends

Yeah, I don't really like how Marissa's feelings for Ryan were more apparent than his feelings for her whenever they were broken up. And Ryan seemed to really get into some of his other relationships. Marissa's other relationships were a bit different.

I made this video a long time ago. I was debating if I should post it or not. It's a bit hard on Ryan and I don't want to offend any possible lurkers. It's an old video and I've calmed down since then, but I was watching it the other day and as a video, I'm pleased with how it came together. I remember I wanted to make a more serious type of SM vid and this song kind of inspired me:

YouTube - ‪Seth/Marissa/Ryan- It Hurts Me‬‏

~Search4Truth~

I think Adam and Mischa have chemistry. Monica, I love your SM video. I was just going to comment on a few gifs (they're very cute), but then I noticed the off topic conversation going on in here.

I hope it's okay if I add my two cents. I also apologize in advance for the long post. I just have a lot of opinions about what has been said here that I'd respectfully like to share. I'm not trying to argue or anything. I just wanted to share my honest opinion and possibly share another perspective on Ryan's behalf. If you guys disagree, I'm not going to try to argue more points. I'll just agree to disagree, but I did want to share my opinions.

Guys, I agree that Ryan made mistakes. I think there are times he should have stayed single on the show (Theresa, Sadie), and I agree that Marissa always showed her love for him while she was dating someone else. I do agree that he made mistakes too and that Marissa sometimes helped him at her expense. Likewise there were times she made mistakes and he helped her at his expense. I think with RM it went both ways. I would also like to state that RM is my favorite OC couple (out of the couples that happened).

I would like to say that I don't agree with the idea that Marissa was his fallback. When he'd date her, he put her #1 in my opinion. He was there for her while they were dating. He did love her, and I think he loved her more than any other girl he dated. When they weren't dating, it was usually because he felt hurt by something she did. I'm not saying either one was right or wrong. I'm just saying it's understandable imo.

Ryan didn't want to be with Theresa in S2. He didn't love her. IMO that was clear. Over that summer in Chino they didn't even face each other while sleeping. They were each on opposite ends of the bed not even using the same covers. He barely talked to her. He wanted to be with Marissa. He was only in Chino for the possible baby. He was doing the responsible thing and Theresa refused to make things easy for him and Marissa and practically gave him the ultimatum: you go to Chino to be with me or you stay in Newport and aren't in the baby's life. In my opinion, any decent guy would have chosen to be a father, especially when they grew up without one. It's an innocent kid we're talking about. IMO, that doesn't mean he didn't love Marissa or that he had chosen Theresa. He still longed to be with Marissa that summer.

When he and Theresa slept with one another in S1 after the Oliver thing, he was confused. He was being a typical teenage boy (irresponsible and not thinking with the right head). It doesn't help that I'm sure rebound sex was how he was taught to deal with problems in Chino.

He was also still hurt over the Oliver thing (and if I were in his shoes, I admit I would have been extremely hurt too). I'm not saying Marissa deserved any of this. I can see her point of view too. I'm just saying I understand where Ryan is coming from and he didn't sleep with Theresa because he loved her more than Marissa or he was choosing her. Theresa had come onto him and he finally gave in. He'd more than likely lost his virginity to her in Chino and they grew up together. I think he was rebounding with her.

He came back to Marissa later in S1 because he wanted to be with Marissa. He chose to seek her out in Chino after the incident with Julie and Luke. He chose to fight for her. He chose her. I am pretty sure he wasn't going to stay with Theresa. Sooner or later he and Theresa would have fizzled out because he didn't love her. IMO Marissa was his first true love.

Ryan has huge trust issues. I don't think Marissa was just a convenience for him. That's not true to me at all. Every time he and Marissa broke up, it was because there was a rift in the trust. Ryan was lied to his entire life and he's a character that is scared to give his heart completely because he is scared of getting hurt.

Marissa was the first thing on his mind when he got back to Newport that summer. He wanted to be with her. He'd been thinking about her all summer. When he didn't go back with Marissa in S2, I think it was because in his mind she lied to him and he caught her with another guy when she had told him she wasn't seeing anybody. I don't think it was because he didn't want to be with her. It was because he was scared of getting hurt.

I actually think it's admirable that Ryan tried to love the other girls he was with, even if he'd never feel the same way about them as he did for Marissa. If he was emotionally cheating on Lindsay, for example, while dating her... I wouldn't like him as much. Part of what I respect about his character is that whether or not he has feelings for someone else, he knows how to be a good boyfriend. He puts the person he is dating first. If you are dating someone, that's what you are supposed to do in my opinion. That doesn't mean you are over the person you were previously with. It just means you're making an effort to put the person you are currently dating first in the relationship. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's what people are supposed to do. It's what I would do. I think he clearly still cared about Marissa while he was dating Lindsay. He just showed his care in a way that was respectful to Lindsay. He stood up from the table concerned when Marissa yelled at her parents drunk at the party in 207. He gave her a comforting hand after her dad left. He had given her his suit jacket in 205 when DJ arrived. He wanted to genuinely be her friend. He made mistakes in 209, but to me it was still evident he cared for Marissa. I think he was still hurt by her and I think he had let the hurt build for a while without telling her and that's why he unfairly exploded on her, but he still cared.

I'm not sure if Ryan would have stayed with Lindsay had she not left, but I'm guessing he would have because by that point he was beginning to fall for her. That doesn't mean he didn't love Marissa when he was with Marissa. It means he learned to love someone else as well, but in a different way.

When Ryan and Marissa got back together in S2, it had been quite a while since Lindsay had left. He went back to Marissa because he chose Marissa. He was finally over Lindsay and Marissa had proven herself to him. She had improved herself. She stopped drinking, she helped him with his brother, she showed him that she's independent. She won his heart and he fell in love with her all over again. There was significant build up late S2 between the two of them. A lot of things happened before they actually officially got together. It was realistic and Marissa wasn't his rebound IMO. Not at all. She was who he wanted to be with. He wasn't thinking about Lindsay. He wasn't longing to be with Lindsay from what we saw. He was only thinking about Marissa and by S3 (before the writing started to go sour and they ruined RM), he told Marissa, "I don't know where my future is, but I know it's with you." Ryan is not a character that says something he doesn't mean. He meant that when he said it.

The only girl I think Ryan's behavior was wrong around was with Sadie. I think Sadie was a rebound though. I think the writing was pretty bad there and I also think he was out of character. There is no way he's going to consider going to Berkeley with a girl he'd known for such a short amount of time. This is Ryan we're talking about. The guy who is scared to make decisions like that. I'm not sure who was writing in late S3, but it was very un-Ryan like. Even in S4 the writing for him made more sense. When Taylor asked him to go to Berkeley with her, he freaked out and he'd been with her at that point longer than he was ever with Sadie. The writing for Ryan/Sadie just doesn't make sense IMO so I let it go and ignore it.

Sorry that was so long winded. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just wanted to share my opinion. Thanks for listening!

dcfriends

Aw, that means a lot coming from you, Theresa. I was a little worried that you might lurk here and I wasn't sure how you'd take the video. I hope it didn't offend you and thank you for your comment

That was a long post! Thanks for sharing your opinions I'm not sure how to respond to everything. I don't think Ryan was a bad guy. I think it's great that he tried to be a good boyfriend to everyone he dated. I am a bit biased. I'm a diehard Marissa fan and I don't really care for the other characters quite as much. I'm a little disappointed with the way RM were written sometimes. I think the writers could've had Ryan say more about his feelings for Marissa. It's kind of hard for me to just ignore certain things (like 209 or Sadie or the way S4 was handled). It's like- those things are there- they happened, lol. I actually think S3 had a lot of the same writers. I was looking at the dvd booklets recently and I think I saw a lot of the same names. I don't what happened that season, lol.

~Search4Truth~

It's not a problem, hun. I know you don't dislike Ryan. You've told me several times that you do like him and Ben McKenzie and that you still like RM even if SM is your OTP. I know you weren't purposely bashing Ryan or his fans by your video, which is why I take no offense to it (plus, I love the song ). Video making is a form of art. A lot of times the videos we make are AU and just to tell some random story creatively. I can respect that, especially as a video maker myself. It's kind of like fanfiction writing. Sometimes to tell a story, you are purposely harder on a character because it's a hypothetical situation. I take no offense to that.

I know that you are a diehard Marissa fan just as I am a diehard Ryan fan so it's all good! I think the writers just went sour. I don't blame that on the characters or the actors. I think Josh Schwartz maybe listened to Twop, that's all. I'm glad you don't think Ryan was a bad guy. He was a great guy in my opinion. Not perfect, but a sweet, wonderful person and I respect how he turned his life around and relate to the way Ben played the character of course. No hard feelings, Monica!

And thank you guys for letting me express my opinions.

Sam_MC

Interesting post, ManhattanBabe!

I think for me the issue is more how Marissa was painted in that pair. Season 1, it was essentially fine. Season 2 got more depressing for them. But then season 3 came around and added buckets of fuel to the fire which then ended up emphasizing the issues in season and season 2.

For me it really comes down to the fact that Ryan and his other relationships were treated with a lot more respect in terms of story arc. He was allowed to develop feelings for these new girls. And the relationships were written as if he really did care about them.

Marissa never got that. She got Oliver, a psycho. She got DJ, a cliche fling. She got Alex, a ratings stunt. She got Johnny, a suicidal pain in the ass. And she got Volchok, a drunk murderer.

And I'm not saying that Ryan was the reason Marissa ended up with losers for every relationship, but it does make it very hard to see Ryan's perspective when he was at least given opportunities at happiness with other people. Marissa was not. It always felt like she was waiting for him. And that she was always looking to earn him back.

And the bad-guy-to-good-guy-hero-complex the writers had for Ryan lasted all the way to Marissa's death, even up to the bit where he went over to punch out Volchok. Which is all well and good, but I found it insane/infuriating that when Marissa really needed him to get through the Trey situation, he was barely there for her. So it became really difficult to watch Marissa love someone as much as she did, only to get the wrong kind of support in return. And yet Marissa was never given the opportunity to shake her desire to be with Ryan.

Which I guess brings things back to the purpose of this thread. Had they given Marissa another love interest (like Seth, since we're here) with as much significance as they had written Ryan, then maybe Marissa would not have been so miserable. And maybe we wouldn't be feeling like Marissa was a burden on Ryan's shoulders.

Now, obviously that's all just my perspective on the show, but what I'm essentially saying is that Ryan was given a chance. Marissa wasn't. And that created too much of an imbalance.

Cristofle

It was also a relationship where, when it went wrong, it ended up being on Marissa's shoulders. This was especially frustrating in S3, because their conflict about Trey was organic and wasn't necessarily the fault of either one of them, but could still easily have caused the relationship to fall apart, and Josh still wouldn't go there. He had to insert Johnny to make Marissa be the heavy.

I'd agree that when RM were together, Ryan only wanted her (although I don't think Marissa EVER was sexually attracted to Oliver and I don't think she really wanted Johnny either- I think she just craved being able to talk about things Ryan couldn't seem to handle talking about, and she thought she'd lose that if Johnny started dating Kaitlin. When Johnny actually professed his love for her, she looked pretty horrified, lol). I just wish that one of the times Ryan was with another girl, his feelings for Marissa were significantly addressed instead of the girl dumping him and THEN him drifting back to Marissa. I think the only real time I can think of where it was clear Ryan still had feelings for Marissa was in The Ex Factor when he was describing how he met Marissa to Lindsay and you could see the flashback in the windshield of the car. And weirdly, that never came up between Ryan and Lindsay again, lol, even though she was obviously threatened. She ended up dumping him for some really stupid and contrived reason a few episodes later.

Sam_MC

Could have been a triangle of some sort.



Via damnthatmotherchuckerr

Cristofle

I would have appreciated at least Seth and Marissa being closer friends. They were so isolated from each other a lot of the time, and a foundation was there for a closer friendship- they were more alike than they thought in a lot of ways- but Josh never followed up on it. ~Shocking~

Speaking of The Ex Factor though, I did appreciate Seth defending her.

~Search4Truth~

Thanks Sam. You too! And you can call me Theresa.

I love the pics! I wanted Seth and Marissa to have a nice friendship too.

I think if SM got together, Ryan would have stayed close friends with both by S4. He's not the sort of guy who would try to interfere or be hurt by them being together in my opinion. I think he'd be supportive if he noticed they were happy together. He wouldn't want to interfere with that.

So are you saying that your frustration or dislike doesn't lie with Ryan himself, but rather with the writing for Marissa's story arc and how you feel the writers treated her unfairly? I think that's what I understand from your comment here, but I just wanted to make sure.

Nice post. I agree with most of it. There are a few things I don't agree with towards the end, but I agree with a lot of it.

dcfriends

Elvis forever

Exactly! I'm glad there are no hard feelings

Sam_MC

Yes and no.

It definitely started being exclusively about the writing, but then that ended up being Ryan's entire character profile. The writers didn't treat Marissa fairly or in balance with the other characters, but that was only further reflected in how Ryan would treat her (especially in s3) where her problems didn't register with him.

~Search4Truth~

Monica, can't go wrong with Elvis!

For some reason my keyboard always messes up and sends posts before I'm ready. There must be some key I'm accidentally pushing that causes it to submit. Does that happen to any of you guys too?

On SM, I love them in The Model Home. It's so cute how they both like the same music and books.

I can see what you are saying. I agree that Marissa's character wasn't treated fairly by the writers. That is definitely something that irritates me.

In terms of Marissa's problems not registering with Ryan in S3, I'll have to disagree there if that's okay. I respect your opinion though. The second half of S3 I agree that Ryan was being cold, but the first half I think he treated her very well. I agree that he didn't always know how to help her before that, but I think he tried. Also, to some degree I think there were times Marissa didn't know how to help Ryan through his problems/emotional state in S3 either so it's a two sided thing. That's just my opinion. I think like Liz said a couple posts before, their problems post-Trey were organic and not really the fault of either of them and both characters were hurting and expressed their hurt differently and also coped differently and I really don't think either understood what the other needed according to the writing.

I think Ryan wanted to listen to Marissa about Trey, for example, but after he didn't do it at 4 am that one night, she never went to him to talk about it again (she went to Johnny the next day instead) and Ryan seemed hesitant/scared to ask again in the following episodes because ... well that's Ryan. He's scared he'll make things worse so he doesn't say anything and then by default things end up going sour anyway, but it's not a trait I was ever mad with him for. IMO he clearly cared and wanted to help her and still tried a lot in S3 (helping her get back into Harbor, helping her sister, helping her write the college letter, always asking if she's okay, etc.) So I don't think he treated her badly there. There was a time in S3 where she didn't listen to him when he was going through something either (episode 5). He tried to talk to her 3 times and she stormed out each time and he never got to say what was bothering him. I understand why Marissa behaved that way in that episode as well and don't hold it against her. Like I said, with RM I find it very two sided.

Sam_MC

The OC overall just would have benefited if they kept their storylines more internal instead of introducing new guest stars every arc. You have a cast for a reason, use them together, imo.