Veronica Mars - Veronica Mars Season Two Watch and Support - Page 2

FAIT_Accompli · 02-03-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnsilentMajorty

The other problem with VM is that UPN isn't carried in a lot of cities and especially, in a lot of rural areas where potential viewers with Nielsen boxes live. This has always been a problem with a weblet and this is something we can't really change.

This is something I wanted to bring up, but forgot. UPN will always be at a dissadvantage with the big timers like FOX, ABC, NBC, and CBS for this very reason.

Nielson boxes don't help either.

One Tree Hill is Veronica Mars's biggest competition for rather obvious reasons. OTH is on in the same time slot. Demographics aside, the WB and UPN are in pretty much the same boat when it comes to not being shown in as many cities as the other four big networks. It makes sense that they'd be compared given that they're being shown to a more equal amount of people.

TokyoNiGHTS · 02-03-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnsilentMajorty

I think they, UPN, may be concentrating their efforts on the wrong thing instead of trying to promote VM to the demographic it DOES appeal to and that might actually make the difference in the long run.

Let OTH have the pre-teens and teenagers -- specifically, teenage girls.

VM transcends age and gender demographics which is both a blessing and curse since it is harder to get older viewers to be as invested as teens are in terms of fandomes, but also slightly easier to attract a wider variety of companies to want to buy air time during VM given the wider variety of products that have the potential to be sold (not just CDs; video games; etc).

I think so far they've been trying to sell VM to the Buffy demographic which basically fits your definition of the show as being for everyone. The problem with something like that is there are always people who have an idea of what that show would be like. With Buffy when you think of vampires and such you don't really think of sophisticated writing or intelligant character so people automatically think of it being some lame show about demons and ignore it. With VM being set in high school alot of people come in thinking its going to have a bunch of sappy love stories which it really doesn't. That's a big problem for alot of the fanbase it could potentially have, those people aren't interested in long drawn out love stories. It doesn't seem like they're being able to draw that demographic in now.

I think UPN really wants to get the show through the season to see if it came pick up anywhere. It doesn't mean it'll happen because even though the execs are happy about the quality of the show, the ratings aren't doing well enough for them to really carry it. This is what happens with these types of shows though, good quality but the market is so hard to actually find that they can't make it.

**AliasUnknown** · 02-03-2005, 03:05 PM

Responding to the OTH talk earlier in this thread, I agree that OTH is in competetion for ratings with VM. I watch both, and all I can say is "Thank God for TiVO." I think the shows are completely different, but then again, aren't Buffy and Dawson's Creek? And how many people that watched Dawson's watched Buffy?

shlee · 02-03-2005, 03:15 PM

While OTH may be targeted towards teens, I do think it also draws an older audience such as The O.C., Dawson's Creek, and other teen dramas. If anything, the demographic that seems to be really important to networks is the 18 - 49 group and VM loses out to OTH in that area as well.

Honestly, I don't really know how UPN has been marketing the show as I usually don't watch commercials or read ads unless it's on the subway. (Now that I think about it, I did see ads for VM in the mall). When I read about VM, which is mainly EW, they describe the show as being noir-ish. As it is, so few people watch UPN that most people wouldn't see the commercials anyway. Maybe they can start advertising on the radio...I don't know. I think that EW has done a great job of plugging the show.

If we look at what else is on during the timeslot there's House on FOX, family sitcoms on ABC, Amazing Race on CBS, Scrubs and Committed on NBC, and OTH on the WB. I don't enough about most of these shows to know what kind of audiences they draw.

If this post seems really disjointed, that's probably because it is.

ETA: I also think that UPN's main competition is the WB cause neither network can really compete with the 4 major networks.

Is MTV still airing episodes?

UnsilentMajorty · 02-03-2005, 03:25 PM

I agree that OTH is the direct competion for VM in that time slot (as are the other mainstream network shows).

However, I still think that for UPN to try and "lure" viewers away from OTH is not the best course of action because it just will not work.

Teen shows -- like OTH -- Are popular because they aren't as sophisticated as VM in a lot of respects. I'm not trying to insult anybody (who is a teen), but OTH, again, appeals to an entirely different demographic and goes about satisfying and building that demographic using long, drawn-out love stories and soap-opera type theatrics... Just like Dawson's Creek did (in fact, OTH is very similar to DC not just because of who produces it, but how they execute their storylines; you've seen them before on DC).

Actually, this is a compliment to the WB and OTH for doing what they should be doing to stay on the air.

This is actually something VM needs to start thinking about. Meaning, not "dumbing down" its storylines, or trying to appeal to younger crowds, but by finding the demographic niche that VM appeals to and delivering.

But again, this isn't going to be the easiet thing to do because VM isn't a "niche" -- in terms of genre -- Kind of show, ironically, and it appeals to everyone... But they've got to start nailing down specifics so they can focus their marketing efforts.

---

The other big factor we haven't really been talking about is the fact that VM just does not have the advertising budget to compete on a national level like the big networks.

I found out about VM in early June when I was able to see an advanced screener for the Pilot... But I will admit, had I not been in the position I was in then, I wouldn't have even knew the show existed and in fact, I missed the Pilot the night it aired. Unfortunately, I wasn't the only one who "missed" the Pilot the night it aired, regardless of individual circumstances.

This is why the cast is doing Mall tours once a month.

It is grassroots efforts to promote awareness of the show and it is actually cheaper in the long to do events like these than buy ad space in TV guide, on billboards, the internet, etc.

My worst fear is that we are going to get another Wonderfalls.

Meaning, we're going to get ONE full season and then that's it. We'll probably get a DVD release for that one season, but that will be all she wrote.

As unpleasant a scenario as this is... I think it might actually be a more profitable scenario for UPN/Paramount because they would make back more on DVD sales than they would keeping the show on the air for another season or two.

shlee · 02-03-2005, 03:38 PM

Thankfully 24 is not in the Tuesday 9pm timeslot this year cause otherwise I would have had to given up on VM. Man, I really need to get TIVO (when the hell is Cablevision going to offer DVR?).

Speaking of mall tours, after they finish filming this season maybe they'll come on over to the East Coast...like uh...New York City?

Oh, just to add on the Enterprise talk from earlier. As a Trekkie (though not a hardcore one), there were many things wrong with the show. The main thing for me was the rise of what my brother and I call "The Archer." But anyway, the truth is, the Star Trek franchise does need to be put to rest for awhile and maybe in a few years people will rediscover Star Trek. As it is, there are much better scifi shows currently airing.

ETA: Wonderfalls was given a season? It was cancelled after 4 episodes. You mean, the full season is on DVD?

UnsilentMajorty · 02-03-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlee

ETA: Wonderfalls was given a season? It was cancelled after 4 episodes. You mean, the full season is on DVD?

Yes. It came out Tuesday

I have it and I can see why the show would have never survived on FOX. It is actually a GOOD show and very intellectual and that is not what Fox is all about if we are going to be blunt.

WF is more of an HBO/Showtime kind of series and probably would have had a possible second season had it aired there instead of Fox.

bybrandy · 02-03-2005, 04:08 PM

I think VM has a decent shot for a pickup. With UPN cancelling Enterprise and WWE that is a lot of new programing they have to come up with for the fall. This might mean good things for VM. It is just not all that smart to totally redo your entire lineup.

I think the biggest problem facing VM is being a show set in a high shool people assume it is only going after the high school crowd. Most of the people I've tried to convert have said, "I don't want to watch a dumb kids show." And I'm like but no... its not, really... sigh.

At least certain casting decisions should work in favor of drawing the buffy crowd. My SIL is now all about getting me to catch her up on the series when she wouldn't have anything to do about it beforehand.

Tuesday at 9 is a bad timeslot, though. Personally I like TAR, House, and VM. VM is the one with the season pass on the TIVO, but there isn't another night on television where I am so conflicted about what I want to watch.

shlee · 02-03-2005, 04:16 PM

I think I read somewhere that Wonderfalls was similar to Dead Like Me so it wouldn't have been a good idea to be on Showtime.

A lot of people compared it to Joan of Arcadia. From me, there was no comparison, it was obvious which was the better show but then FOX had to go and screw it up.

Sigh...*looks at empty wallet*. I don't think I'll be getting the DVD anytime soon.

UnsilentMajorty · 02-03-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bybrandy

I think the biggest problem facing VM is being a show set in a high shool people assume it is only going after the high school crowd. Most of the people I've tried to convert have said, "I don't want to watch a dumb kids show." And I'm like but no... its not, really... sigh.

This is exactly what we're discussing when we (I) say that the WB and OTH does what does better than VM and they (UPN) shouldn't try and go head-to-head with OTH and try and draw viewers in my opinion.

OTH is a "dumb kids show" in the sense that is who its primary demographic is. Period. OTH doesn't apologize for this. The WB doesn't apologize for this... And that is why it it would be suicide for VM to try and draw those same viewers away from it because those viewers, OTH viewers, ARE NOT THE SAME as VM viewers.

I know some of you watch both shows, but I am speaking in the larger, more general sense of the Neilsen ratings and demographic breakdowns (not in specifics and exceptions to the rule).

This is something VM has yet to "identify".

Who really does watch VM?

How can UPN market to that group once it is identified?

Now, maybe trying to just focus on one single demographic isn't the right approach. Perhaps trying to get multiple demographics is better (and what most shows do anyway)?

But again, look at OTH and its primary fanbase and that is what DEFINES the show... more or less... And VM just has not "defined" itself that way yet and I fear this may be the biggest obstacle in keeping it on the air and that is why I keep harping on it to some degree.

jennarose · 02-03-2005, 05:18 PM

Most of the people I know are watching The Amazing Race at the same time VM airs. (I do too - I tape VM.) These are people I KNOW would like it. I don't know why they won't give it a chance. Most of the people I know that do watch VM also watch OTH (not me).

shlee · 02-03-2005, 05:52 PM

I wonder if we can find out how often VM is recorded on TIVO or other DVR services.

UnsilentMajorty · 02-03-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlee

I wonder if we can find out how often VM is recorded on TIVO or other DVR services.

Not to be a Debbie-Downer...

But it doesn't matter how many people record a show, but how many people log that they watch a certain show at a certain time as far as the Nielsen boxes go.

Companies that spend thousands of dollars on commercial airtime literally have a minute-by-minute schedule of commercials breakdowns for any period of airtime they've bought and where in the hour they are going to air.

So, for example, Ford has a schedule that says the commercial for the new Dodge Ram 2005, will air at 14 minutes and 31 seconds into the Veronica Mars block of airtime.

If it isn't there... There will be hell to pay.

It's been like this almost since commercial TV came on the air.

Trying to get companies to change this would be all but impossible at this stage in the game, unfortunately.

Conversely, I definitely think that TIVO and other media devices -- including on demand HDTV and other formats -- Should be used in determing ratings because it IS proof people are watching a show, just not at the exact time it airs.

If someone could convince advertisers and networks that it doesn't matter WHEN viewers see a commercial, but that viewers see the commercial(s) at all then including TIVOs and other media into ratings would probably be a more accurate measure of who is actually watching what and why, so networks could adjust their scheduling to offer more counter-programming, or alternative scheduling to fit those viewing habits.

shlee · 02-03-2005, 08:26 PM

No, no, I know that. I'm just wondering how many people actually record VM to watch it later seeing as a few people here have said that they watch some other show while recording VM.

If we could some how get those people (at the least the ones with a Nielsen box) to watch VM live and record the other show...

Yeah, I know, not likely.

I don't know how advanced TIVO is, but does it record commercials? I know that the when I tape record, I usually fast forward through commercials (unless something really catches my interest). So that's just not going to be attractive to advertisers.

FAIT_Accompli · 02-03-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlee

Maybe they can start advertising on the radio...I don't know.

You know what? I think that's actually a really good idea.

Back at home I used to listen to the radio religiously. Whenever I was on the net or just doing homework, it was on. WB plugged the hell on the radio station I listened to, and I'll admit, even with the shows I wouldn't normally watch, some of the advertisements are tempting. A lot of people listening to the radio are potential viewer targets.

I think it also depends on how UPN has been marketting VM as well. I don't pay attention to the commercials outside of Veronica Mars's timeslot, simply because I don't watch anything else on UPN. But from the little I heard about Veronica Mars esentially, all I knew was that she was a "high school student by day, PI by night." Honestly? That alone didn't appeal to me. I jumped in during one of the filler episodes initially when there hadn't been much centralized plot continuation. It was the episode Troy jumped ship and was written out of the show.

I stopped watching for a considerable amount of time until I started tuning in just recently, and then had friends send me the earlier episodes.

When I discovered the true, more in depth premise of the show, then I started to get pulled in.

So, I definitely think Marketting is important, not so much just that it happens, but also what they advertise.