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Old 06-27-2014, 11:28 PM
  #31
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I'll give my detailed view on things, Logan and... I forgot the other person got the GHB from Mexico and brought it to Shelly Pomroy's party, Dick put it in one drink, passed it to Madison, who disgustingly spit in the drink and handled it to Veronica who drank it and that's when all help broke loose. In Veronica's drunken state, a lot of people took advantage of her and was playing around with her, and it seems Veronica kissed a few people... so she was just known as a '****' during that day, and even Logan wasn't any better, putting some drink in her mouth... I don't remember correctly but I know Logan apologized about it in the present. Duncan seeing what everybody was doing, ran to Veronica and helped her and took her away from those guys.

BUT before Duncan leaves, Logan spikes Duncan drink with the same drug that Veronica had... that GHB... for some reason, people seem to think that Duncan was completely in his right mind when he slept with Veronica that night... and if you watched that scene, before they sleep together, they seem to flirt with one another and Veronica is happy he's there and Duncan is happy and they just do it... Duncan mistake was leaving Veronica when he woke up... that's where the whole Cassidy raping Veronica confusing me. lol or did Cassidy have sex with Veronica first?... either way it makes no sense, Duncan brought Veronica to the room, left. AND then came back to sleep and then wake up? I never got that whole thing.


SO me personally, I believe both Veronica and Duncan were under the same drugs and if they weren't, then that night would've never happened. Most of those pathetic Neptune Night School Kids [especially Madison/Dick... and a little bit of Logan for drugging Duncan] are responsible.
I agree with alot of this, i dont see it being Duncans fault and it seemed that Veronica and Duncan were enjoying eachother and expressing their love for oneanother; the way she says I missed you and he strokes her arm....then when she find out it was him and then says "it wasnt rape, I was with Duncan" to Logan.
As for Cassidy, Dick and him and sean brought he into the room, Cassidy raped her, prob put her underwear back on to make her look undisturbed, ran out, threw up on Carries shoes and then Duncan came in and Veronca woke up..
as for Dick, well, this is just something we are supposed to forgive, and Logan too.


Oh and the drug was Liquid X but its also called GHB and can be used as a date rape drug when mixed with alcohol
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:45 AM
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Logan's not a big part of the book, but there are some really nice moments of her thoughts of him while he's gone.

I think Dick was drunk, probably on something, and just plain stupid. He did say once that Dick Sr and him would have contest on making Cassidy cry. I think in Dick's warped mind at the time, he was helping his brother enter adulthood. And I think Dick never thought that Cassidy would actually do it. I'm guessing it probably didn't escape Dick's notice how Cassidy acted about sex. Though Dick knew nothing of the abuse that Cassidy went through with Woody. I think if Dick had known, he probably would still be Dick. But he would have treated Cassidy different and might have gone after Woody. I think the show loved Dick and they loved Ryan. And they wanted to use his character, so they kinda glazed over some of the stuff that happened. Though I do think that Dick feels guilt and remorse for a good portion of the stuff he's done. For all of Dick's faults I do think he genuinely loved his brother and felt major grief and guilt when Cassidy's crimes came out and when he died.

I don't think Dick's intention was to drug Madison and take advantage of her. I think Dick thought it would be fun for them both to take it and have wild party sex since Madison was mostly frigid. I never understood how those two became an item. She's so shallow, cold, selfish, and spoiled diva. While he's this permanent frat boy/surfer boy comment that has no filter with what comes out of his mouth. At least Dick has changed and grown as a character, Madison stays the same horrible person she's always been.

And with Logan, I think he was being stupid and drunk. Logan is very loyal, but that loyalty can sometimes be a bad thing. He sees what Keith and Veronica did being the ultimate betrayal of people he loves dearly. And considering all the anger and rage built up in that boy I'm surprised he didn't do worse things. He was aiming so much of all the crap he was going through badly placed. Having her be a human salt lick is one thing. But I don't think Logan would ever be ok with rape. I think that's the one thing he would have drawn the line on. Not after all the years he's watched Aaron abuse Lynn probably psychically and emotionally and constantly cheat on her. He was a very messed up kid, who just wanted his best friend back. And I don't think he ever thought of using the drugs as taking advantage of anyone. He just thought of using it as a fun party drug, which is can be used sometimes.

I think that piss a bunch of people off. At least for me is how badly it's all written. Duncan rescues Veronica from the salt lick and gets drugged as well. He then drops her off in the room, where Dick takes Cassidy. Who then rapes her. Only to run out and throw up. Duncan comes in a few moments later and wakes her up all peacefully. And their feelings and nature takes over, that's fine.

But how does the timing line up? Cassidy rapes her, but then composes himself enough to put her underwear back on? But then disgust takes over and he runs out and is sick to his stomach? He does all of this with the door open I believe. And then Duncan shows up and she wakes up to him being all gentle, but not Cassidy raping her? I admit that neither Duncan and Veronica were able to give consent. So it was more they unknowingly took advantage of each other.

I think what I can't forgive about Duncan is that he just leaves her there waking up thinking the worse. Though later we know the worse has happen with Cassidy. At the time, sleeping with your ex while your both drugged is horrible, but it's not the same of thinking you have been raped. I never liked the fact that Duncan didn't tell her that they might be half-siblings before Lilly. It wasn't true, but he should have included her in that knowledge. Veronica might had confronted Lianne or Jake, she might have gotten a test done. I just don't see her taking the news and not finding out if it was a hundred percent true first.

And yes he's a teenage boy. Yet both Logan and Wallace are teenage boys and they rose to the occasion to be there for her. Duncan made it all about himself and threw a temper tantrum. Duncan in his own way abandon Veronica several times through out the show. First when he ends things without a word instead of telling her what Celeste told him. Then ditching her when all of Neptune turned on Keith and her. Only coming to her aid a few times. After having sex, leaving the next morning for her to wake up alone. Not informing her of the news that Meg was pregnant with his child.

I just couldn't pair her with Duncan after that. He may not have raped her, but he wasn't that great a boyfriend. And any chemistry they had in season one, just up and vanished, kinda like Duncan.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:09 AM
  #33
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yes, duncan was so uncommunicative it was aggravating, which is what made him a sucky BF and Veronica just tolerated it which was also frustrating!!!!

Cherrios: I agree about Dick and Duncan, but Logan: I think he CAN be loyal, but we cant say that is him 100%. If he was 100% loyal to Duncan, he would never have touched Duncans ex-girlfriend Veronica. Thats not loyalty. Yes, Logan loves Veronica, but it badly hurt Duncan and almost ruined their friendship.

actually I take that back, I think he just couldnt help himself with Veronica.....cause it was a LOVE EXPLOSION!!!!

Ive had 4 days off work and Im super bored!! so this is fun!

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Old 06-28-2014, 07:41 AM
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I bought it and I'm excited! The next book comes out in October right? I wonder if Rob will just keep writing these forever
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:16 AM
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I find this subject so sensitive and i'm going to just say, I don't want anyone to be offended by my thought process. I'm just spewing out what I was thinking while rewatching the series with a new outlook. I've been chewed out so many times for speaking my mind about sensitive topics such as this and I just want to say, I mean no disrespect whatsoever I just have some thoughts on the topic.

I believe they all hold responsibility in some way and it's hard to blame one person. I'm curious though, did Dick really convince Cassidy to have his way with Veronica or was that a scenario that could have happened? I know there's a scene with him doing it but did it actually happen? I can't remember exactly how it played out. I don't want to sound like i'm sticking up for Dick at all but I wonder if he was kind of just teasing Cassidy because he knew he would never do it anyway. Again, I don't want to defend any of these guys but the intention seemed to be that they wanted everyone to have a good time. Veronica assumed it was a roofie but it wasn't. It was a drug given to her without her consent and something bad happened. Everyone there contributed to what happened to Veronica.

Thinking back, I don't think the writers would write that the same way. It's upsetting because Dick is that lovable character now, when he used to be one of the worst. But i suppose that's kind of the theme of the show. Everyone is broken in some way and everyone has a dark past.


I could definitely understand why this is such a sensitive topic.

In my opinion, Dick was a Dick back in the day, I don't care if it was just teasing, leaving Veronica in the room like that and trying to move his hand up her skirt, and telling Cassidy to have his way with her is just.... horrible. ALSO let's not forget Dick had the GHB drug and was going to use it on his girlfriend at the time Madison, that right there speak to what a horrible person Dick was back in the day.

I think the writers definitely wouldn't have written it the same way seeing by how lovable Dick is, I even like him now but I'm holding him against all his actions, no matter how lovable he is now.



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I agree with alot of this, i dont see it being Duncans fault and it seemed that Veronica and Duncan were enjoying eachother and expressing their love for oneanother; the way she says I missed you and he strokes her arm....then when she find out it was him and then says "it wasnt rape, I was with Duncan" to Logan.
As for Cassidy, Dick and him and sean brought he into the room, Cassidy raped her, prob put her underwear back on to make her look undisturbed, ran out, threw up on Carries shoes and then Duncan came in and Veronca woke up..
as for Dick, well, this is just something we are supposed to forgive, and Logan too.


Oh and the drug was Liquid X but its also called GHB and can be used as a date rape drug when mixed with alcohol

This is a good thread to get you opinion lashed out.
Anyway, it was Duncan fault as you were stating, for those who watched that scene... they seemed to have been enjoying one another's company and they showed their love for each other during that scene, it was just bad that they were both under the influence, under a drug.

See I understand that explanation, I just don't get where Duncan was... writing wise. Wasn't Duncan the one who brought Veronica up to the room? because he's the one who moved Logan and the other guys away from Veronica when they were outside messing with her... so that part confuses me.
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:38 AM
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yes, duncan was so uncommunicative it was aggravating, which is what made him a sucky BF and Veronica just tolerated it which was also frustrating!!!!

Cherrios: I agree about Dick and Duncan, but Logan: I think he CAN be loyal, but we cant say that is him 100%. If he was 100% loyal to Duncan, he would never have touched Duncans ex-girlfriend Veronica. Thats not loyalty. Yes, Logan loves Veronica, but it badly hurt Duncan and almost ruined their friendship.

actually I take that back, I think he just couldnt help himself with Veronica.....cause it was a LOVE EXPLOSION!!!!

Ive had 4 days off work and Im super bored!! so this is fun!
I was thinking more the Kane family and the memory of Lilly. Well considering who Logan's teacher was in Aaron on how to behave, I'm not surprised. I think after being around Veronica again, Logan's view on loyalty changed. And he realized Lilly wouldn't have wanted Veronica attacked. And they had been friends once too.

I think when it came to Veronica, Logan couldn't stop himself. Those two have a cosmic pull.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:02 PM
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Are we allowed to post spoilers on here?
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:33 AM
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I think spoilers are allowed since the movie is out on dvd and blu-ray.

I think Dick was a huge tool before we meet him in season one. And I'm betting that at the party he was already three sheets to the wind and might have been on some drugs as well like GHB himself. And Dick had pretty twisted ideas when it came to girls like having sex without a condom with one of the poor girls of Neptune because he thought it was good fun. And he loved tormenting Cassidy, but I do think he genuinely loved his brother and his own twisted way wanted to bring Cassidy into manhood. This doesn't excuse his behavior, but I do think he has changed since then. Not a big change like Logan, but a fair amount.

Something I don't understand, need to watch the show again. But she's at the pool with the salt lick. Duncan stops that and is drugged by Logan. He leads Veronica away to a empty bedroom. Why does he leave her in the first place giving a chance for her to be taken advantage by Dick and Cassidy and then raped by Cassidy? Did he think she would be safe? Was he feeling the effect of the drug? Why go back to the party when he wasn't having a good time? Was he fearful that he couldn't restraint himself being around her, thinking she was his sister?

The timing is just off and all messed up storywise. And it always bugged me.

On regards to Logan and Veronica. I honestly thing that Logan always had a crush on Veronica, whether he knew about about it or not. But it never happened because of Lilly and Duncan. But that cosmic pull was there and I think when the kiss happened, he like Veronica got caught up in the world wind of their confused/energized emotions that were going through both of them. I do think they both were concern about Duncan, maybe her a bit more than Logan. But I think they both felt more guilty when it came to Lilly.

That's what I would love to see in the books. Veronica have a dream about Lilly and them talking about Logan and Veronica's relationship. Just once I would like to hear Lilly's opinion of the LoVe pairing.
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:44 PM
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Something I don't understand, need to watch the show again. But she's at the pool with the salt lick. Duncan stops that and is drugged by Logan. He leads Veronica away to a empty bedroom. Why does he leave her in the first place giving a chance for her to be taken advantage by Dick and Cassidy and then raped by Cassidy? Did he think she would be safe? Was he feeling the effect of the drug? Why go back to the party when he wasn't having a good time? Was he fearful that he couldn't restraint himself being around her, thinking she was his sister?
For me everything is off. It was perfect before blaming Cassidy for the rape. Then don't know why they writers chose that path and that's when they start messing with the timeline. Because if you think that through, Duncan saves Veronica from the pool and they go to the bedroom and they have sex.

It's Cassidy's storyline that was thrown in the middle which made all that mess.

I don't know if Logan had a crush on her, for me she had caught his eye when he was a boy but not to the point of being a crush. Then Lily appeared in his life and Veronica fell for Duncan therefore any love situation between them could have never happened. He felt an attraction towards her sort of speak, he thought she was hot but at that point he thought Lily was hotter or Lily throw into his arms and he forgot about that pull he had towards Veronica.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:45 PM
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I'm less focused on the why and how of their relationship. I fell in love with them for those butterflies they give me. They just have something amazing and I was all fangirly and screaming when he showed up on screen during to movie. I forgot how much I loved them together. I mean, I know I always wanted then together but finally seeing him described the way he was, and how much she wanted him was just too good.
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:44 PM
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For me everything is off. It was perfect before blaming Cassidy for the rape. Then don't know why they writers chose that path and that's when they start messing with the timeline. Because if you think that through, Duncan saves Veronica from the pool and they go to the bedroom and they have sex.

It's Cassidy's storyline that was thrown in the middle which made all that mess.
When it comes to that storyline, I don't know if they threw that in to make Cassidy more of a villain. Or to give Veronica another tragic backstory moment. Though what really makes me mad is that season three came around and it was never dealt with. Except for a few moments with certain characters and that bother me so much.
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Old 06-30-2014, 10:58 AM
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Maybe they didn't want Cassidy to seem just like some broken kid because why would he try to hurt Veronica in the end scene? wouldn't that be harder to explain than just turning him into villan? They should have just left out the Duncan stuff. But then again maybe that was required in order for her to forgive Logan and apologize to him? if she still knew she was raped she wouldn't stop looking until she found out who it was, she needed to know it was Duncan for that relief so she could move on at the time.
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Old 06-30-2014, 04:07 PM
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For me it wasn't necessary to add a rape to Veronica's life. Cassidy would have wanted to hurt her because she had found he had blown up the bus, and bringing to light all the being a molested child. He didn't want anybody to know, that's why he blown up the bus in the first place.

And about seeing Logan in the movie ... it was amazing watching him so handsome and so mature standing in front of her. Listening to her hesitant thoughts around him, she wanted to jump his bones the moment she saw him in the airport
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:53 PM
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I loved Logan in the movie, he's grown so much and I think he was genuinely happy before Carrie was killed and he was framed for murder. He had come so far controlling his emotions and his anger. I know some people thought him too sedate and I admit a part of me did think that too at first. But then he was so messed up and so unhappy back then, that I'm glad he got some structure and direction in his life. I think he was more content in his life with the Navy and then Carrie, than Veronica was in hers.

When we meet Logan again, his girlfriend of at least two years has just been murdered and he's been framed for her murder. I do think that Logan was in love with Carrie. I think his love for Carrie was like his love for Lilly. But Veronica will always be the love of his life. He's grieving, scared, worried, and doesn't know how he feels about being around Veronica again. But he keeps collected and was relieved to see someone who he trusted and who believed him. I'm sure Dick believe him too, but Dick's not great in a crisis.

And even though Veronica choose to stick around. He didn't pressure her or try to bring back once had been between them. He respected her space and for all the insanity he was going through he kept calm. There was some flirting and eye longing, but that's what those two do. When Veronica got caught and he had to go on a pretend date with Ruby. He put on the perfect show for Ruby because he knew keeping Ruby happy kept Veronica safe in a way. When Veronica takes the lawyer job, he genuinely congrats her and wishes her the best in her new life. The first time he starts to hope of something more is when Veronica mentions going the long way home.

He saves Keith from the car accident and takes care of Veronica. He doesn't force anything on her, but doesn't fight it when she comes to him. Though it does seem like her, he comes alive again when they finally do come back together again. I really do think they are half of themselves when they are apart and are only whole when they come together again.
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Old 07-01-2014, 03:08 PM
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Ya, Logan sure held himself together, I would be hyperventalating in a bathroom somewhere and BEGGING veronica to stay and help, his self restrain was freaking admirable, but being in the navy, im sure he needs the strength of mind!!
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2. Veronica Mars Returns in… Mr. Kiss-And-Tell.
After the first Veronica Mars novel — The Thousand Dollar Tan Line — was released, a lot of you wrote to share your thoughts. And since the book managed to hit #2 on The New York Times Bestseller List for trade paperbacks, there were a lot of thoughts. Most of them were positive and enthusiastic.

However, we also received a number of letters that went something like this:

“WHY WASN’T THERE MORE LOGAN?!?!?”

If you fell into that camp, then you’ll be pleased to know that you can expect a lot more Logan in Mr. Kiss-And-Tell, the follow up novel, which we’re on schedule to release late this year. It will take place a few months after the events of The Thousand Dollar Tan Line. And for those of you wondering about some of the unanswered questions raised in the movie — Who was responsible for *****’s murder? Who planted a gun on ******? — the book will also return to those questions.

You can find the full “official” description of the book on Amazon, where Mr. Kiss-And-Tell is available for preorder, and as we get closer to release, I’ll do my best to get an excerpt for you. Unless you’re tired of Veronica Mars.

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