chicah

Welcome back, is more like it. I can't believe I remembered my password last time I logged on was in 2010.

Piz is in many ways a bit patethic. He never fit with Veronica's wit, and he seemed too insecure about many things. I liked that he wasn't a macho muscle-fletching guy, but he still seemed maladjusted and, as you said, not fitting with Veronica for a long time. So yes, I guess you can feel sorry for him - he needed a different kind of girl. Always felt he was a better fit with Parker. Veronica needs someone who can follow her adventorous mind. What annoyed me about him was more that I felt he tried to be something he was not, than his personality in general.

I used to really dislike Duncan - guess it is because I rooted for LoVe so much. Now I see that the Duncan/Veronica-relationship was also an important one for character development, and that Veronica needed it in her life. So maybe I matured a bit. :p LoVe is still the best, though. And I see Duncan as fitting much better with Meg. Which I also think he realised. He dreamt about her in season 2 and him and V getting back together never seemed all that believable to me. He and Meg were naturals together. He fit with the OLD Veronica, pre-Lilly murder, but she changed completely afterwards in a different way than him. He got more depressed and sicker - she got more cynical and tougher. They grew apart. He was still the only one of the 09ers who treated her well for a long time, though, and he never stopped caring about her. That counts for something.

And Leo. God, he is so hot. He is defintelty the hottest of Veronica's dudes. He is the only one who makes my knees buckle. But still not the right guy for her.

HemsyFanatic811

Welcome back chica!!! That's amazing that you still remembered your password from 2010!
Did you see the flim?

chicah

Yep, saw the film felt like meeting an old friend after many years, even though it wasn't as good as the series. Never read the books though, so this time I'm planning on rewatching the series (just started S3 today), the film and then read the books Kinda excited.

tanaja

Welcome back, of course. I've been around since 2016 and you 2006, so...

Piz was still very naive at Hearst. And there was this strong, beautiful, clever, witty girl out of his league. Don't we all at some point want to be with such a person?
However, he didn't really understand her and he pushy with his agenda.

As for Duncan - why did Veronica start to date him again in the beginning of Season 2. I still don't understand it.

chicah

I agree. I actually think the whole Duncan-baby-storyline could've worked out even better if he was in mourning for his girlfriend, and hadn't already "moved on". Veronica could still have been his accomplice and sidekick, as one of his best friends and also a friend of Meg. But, I don't know. It's not unnatural either - he just found out they weren't siblings and thus, old feelings resurfaced. I guess.

No, LoVe was better. And even though their break was painful in s3, it might've been necessary - they both needed to learn from each other. Veronica needed to learn to communicate more, Logan to understand he could not get away with everything. Personally I don't see why the whole Madison-thing was such a big deal, but I guess it was just the final straw for Veronica. She did dump him before for being a jerk and setting fire to the public pool, stuff like that. So in her eyes it probably showed he still put himself first and didn't think his actions through. Veronica had never really talked with him about all that, though, and thinking she has a say in who Logan slept with when they weren't together is a bit far-fetched in my mind.

So, they had both grown quite a bit when they got back together in the movie. And Piz and Veronica fit, if possible, even less than before.

tanaja

I liked how Duncan gradually discovered, that he wasn't in love with Veronica any more (or with changed "new Veronica"), but that he was in love in Meg. Duncan and Veronica dated too long in Season 2 for my taste.

But I didn't understand, why has Veronica chosen Duncan and not Logan? Did she love Duncan more? Duncan was more "settled", while Logan was wild and lost... but still... she broke his heart...
And yes, I agree... Logan and Veronica needed to mature, but it was very painful for me to watch the second part of Season 3. I wanted a happy ending for them.

As for Veronica helping Duncan to kidnap his kid, if they weren't together... I don't know. Maybe. But kidnapping is a big deal, Keith was appalled. Would she have really gone so far, if she wasn't so deeply emotionally involved?

Btw, I like your picture.

cherrios

What always pissed me off about the Piz pairing. Is that they kept on going on and on about what a nice guy that Piz was. And how he was the better choice because he was a nice guy. But that was about all he was described as was a nice guy. He didn't really have much else about him, there was less substance. Just because someone is nice, doesn't mean they are right for one person more than another. Was he able to keep up with her mentally, her wit, her jokes, her intelligence? Did he have her back? Did he understand what made her tick?Did they have things in common?

And Veronica is not a "nice girl" by any standards. Yes, she's a good person who does good things, but that "nice girl" hasn't existed since before Lilly and not really even then. Because she was just repressing a part of herself in a way, how Lilly would talk about her being red satin, when Veronica was showing Lilly her pink girly dress for the dance. Veronica is an amazing, strong, smart, beautiful woman. But she is also vengeful, judgmental, emotionally closed off, holds onto grudges, mean spirited, and see herself as better than others. And that's just a few, she's more rocky road, while Piz is more vanilla. They were in completely different leagues and from what I saw in the movie, they still were. She had cut a big part of herself off again to fit into the relationship, but she really came back to life when she was back with Logan.

chicah

(Thanks, for the last part)

I think Veronica would've helped Duncan anyways. They both saw what the Mannings did to their youngest daughter. Veronica breaks the rules constantly, to do what she thinks is right. I don't think breaking the law is all that much of a problem to her - if she thinks the law is wrong. She crosses Lamb constantly, and he IS the sheriff. She bugs people illegally. She breaks into people's offices, cars, you name it. She lies about who she is. Veronica doesn't care all that much about the parts of the law she feels contradicts her interest.

The way she and Duncan - or me, for that matter - see it, they aren't KIDNAPPING Faith/Lilly. They are saving her. And this difference is crucial.

As to why she chose Duncan: Well, she hadn't completely gotten over him, I believe, as witnessed also by their row at the end of season 1. And when his feelings resurfaced, she wanted to give it another go. I actually thought their ending was quite nice, even though I of course would've wanted her and Logan to be together for most of season 2, too. (I do love that in her dream on graduation morning, she was with Logan, though - in the dream where Lilly was still alive.) I think Duncan was "safe", he was her first love, he represented all that had used to be. Logan was more of a wild card.

@cherrios - yes, I agree. Veronica was never all that nice, as people point out all throughout the series. She was never particularly nice to Piz, either. And he wasn't "nice", he was a pushover. Wallace is nice. Weevil is nice. Duncan is nice. That doesn't mean they are completely mindless people, who are either uncertain about what they really think or don't dare saying it. Hell, Logan is pretty nice when he is in a relationship.

Piz was not the right guy for Veronica - and in the end, he deserved someone "better" than her, in the sense that she took him too much for granted and didn't treat him as an equal.

EDIT: I am rewatching s3 now. Veronica is not very nice to Logan in several of the episodes. It is like she really doesnt get that Logan loves her and would basically do anything for her.

HemsyFanatic811

Very Glad you're back!!! Good discussions going on now too!

tanaja

Well, Veronica didn't help Manning's youngest daughter after Duncan's departure. She is altruistic, but she has her life too. She doesn't go that far.

And the whole idea, that Duncan has to "kidnap his daughter" in order to save her from Mannings, seems a little strange to me. Court would most probably grant Duncan custody:
1. Duncan is a father and he is 18 year old
2. They have evidence against Mannings (and Cliff is a good lawyer)
3. Duncan probably has some financial means too
However:
1. He has some sort of mental condition
2. He is young
But, if Duncan married Veronica, he would have showed stability (she is healthy and marriage usually means maturity) - and Mannings wouldn't have standed a chance.

But Veronica didn't want to be with Duncan any more and he didn't want to ask her for such a sacrifice, so "kidnapping" seemed better idea.
He could have gotten the custody even without marriage, it would have been just a little less certain IMO.

HemsyFanatic811

That is an awesome analysis of Veronica. You should be a shrink! You're right, no one is perfect. And based on what you said, Logan is and always was right for Veronica.

Back to Duncan - she got back with him because Logan was acting out and not going to school, and they had been shot at too. Veronica wanted him to clean up his act. Then Duncan starts "stalking" her just kiddin-wins her back in a few weeks...She wanted to be "normal again".

karamel

HoneyBee

HemsyFanatic811

Great gif set! I so loved that scene! Something about that uniform...

karamel

tanaja

Such a beautiful video!