[ESPO]

Originally Posted by SPA (View Post) I wish we had more L/L of Seasons 1, 2, 3 and 4 -- and never saw L/L of Seasons 5, 6, and 7.

I agree completely SPA. Season 6 was the worst. They hardly ever showed them together and when they did they almost seemed more like friends. I think Lorelai was a bit selfish about a lot of things too. It was ok to make Luke wait until she and Rory were back on track when they weren't speaking, but then she demanded that he put her ahead of getting to know April. That was a bit unfair of her. They had so much spark together in the first few seasons. It sometimes seemed once they put them together they didn't know what to do with them.

[Angelmaid]

So true! I sensed that too, like in the frozen food section when he went to get food to cook for his sister and T.J. and ran into her. I felt so bad for the both of them, but he was trying to reason it out and she didn't know where to go with it. He came across as harsh, but most adults would have met him half way with the reasoning and tried to work through it. That scene captured Lorelai's lack of ability to handle the deeper notes of the relationship. Don't get me wrong though, I was totally rooting for Lorelai to step up to the plate, but she drew a blank...

Originally Posted by SPA (View Post) SPFan -- 3 stars for you at 1001 -- from a "Dedicated" to a "Loyal Fan" -- Keep posting girl!! I've been thinking of the reality of the relationship between Luke and Lorelai. They both had quirks but I think Lorelai had way more. I think Luke was older, in age and in wisdom); and I think that Lorelai acted way too child-like. If my mother talked like that when I was in high school or college, we would have to sit down and have a serious talk.

[ESPO]

Originally Posted by Angelmaid (View Post) So true! I sensed that too, like in the frozen food section when he went to get food to cook for his sister and T.J. and ran into her. I felt so bad for the both of them, but he was trying to reason it out and she didn't know where to go with it. He came across as harsh, but most adults would have met him half way with the reasoning and tried to work through it. That scene captured Lorelai's lack of ability to handle the deeper notes of the relationship. Don't get me wrong though, I was totally rooting for Lorelai to step up to the plate, but she drew a blank...

Honestly, the way Lorelai ran to Christopher the minute Luke wouldn't drop everything with April to marry her, and then slept with him, showed such immaturity. I can see why he would be mean to her. The relationship was more important to Luke than it was to her.

[Angelmaid]

So very true I wonder where the writer's were going with that story arc, because it's hard for me to understand how the Lorelai character could switch from being in love with Luke, to going to Christopher. I think they did a good job showing how Luke came to his senses and showed up two days later and asked her to run away "right now" and get married. Did anyone else feel their heart sink when Lorelai squashed all there hopes and dreams with her actions. Haste makes waste my friends.

Originally Posted by ESPO (View Post) Honestly, the way Lorelai ran to Christopher the minute Luke wouldn't drop everything with April to marry her, and then slept with him, showed such immaturity. I can see why he would be mean to her. The relationship was more important to Luke than it was to her.

[ESPO]

Originally Posted by Angelmaid (View Post) So very true I wonder where the writer's were going with that story arc, because it's hard for me to understand how the Lorelai character could switch from being in love with Luke, to going to Christopher. I think they did a good job showing how Luke came to his senses and showed up two days later and asked her to run away "right now" and get married. Did anyone else feel their heart sink when Lorelai squashed all there hopes and dreams with her actions. Haste makes waste my friends.

Angelmaid ,that scene was heartbreaking. That look on his face when she told him what she did. And then he just walks away. Man, Scott did a good job in that scene.

[SPA]

What baffled me about that is this..... I was hit in the chest with the fact that the story being told was that Lorelai was never "all in" with her relationship with Luke. That Luke was but he neglected Lorelai -- He didn't purposefully go out to hurt her -- he was over-his-head and too inside his head with the situations beforehim. Lorelai never, ever talked about her feelings about being shunned and how the postponing of the wedding really was to her. She set the stage here. From the moment she proposed the Luke -- and kept him in limbo of a wedding date because of Rory -- and Luke's only outburst on the roof that both girls were being stupid -- was the only form of communication of frustration at each other -- and Lorelai backed down - she admitted that Luke was in the middle. After that, there was no talking to each other, anywhere, anytime. Luke was lost without talking to Lorelai about things (when the hell did that happen??). Lorelai was lost in not communicating with Luke about everything in her life (when the hell did that happen??) Two unrecognizable people that we met and almost instantly grew to love. So Lorelai's answer to getting her way is to throw a temper tantrum and sleep with baby-daddy? This show took a Kamakazi dive in the crapper when that happened. People may differ on whose side they are are on (pink ribbons -- or -- blue ribbons), but I think that Luke got hurt the most -- and needlessly so. We all know that Lorelai is "never wrong" -- but in this case she's a little weak on being right. Luke got hit by a Mac Truck. He's a bigger person than I could ever be in the forgiveness department.

[lulu1960]

Luke was lost without talking to Lorelai about things (when the hell did that happen??). Lorelai was lost in not communicating with Luke about everything in her life (when the hell did that happen??)

I agree with this. It all came down to communication. Lorelai was afraid to rock the boat (gun shy from the rift with Rory and her first breakup with Luke) and Luke with keeping everything inside (Dark Day, anyone?)

Remember, Luke didn't say anything about April for two months. So he wasn't much in the communication department either.

But true, they used to tell each other stuff.

[ESPO]

It seemed to me to be the "easy way out" on the writing end of it. They wanted to break them up to increase the"drama" (hello....everyone would have been WAY happier if they kept them together) and really.... what else was there that would have made Luke ever leave her? He would have overlooked everything else but that. That's my view on it anyway. I agree Luke should not have waited two months, never telling her about April, she just found out on her own. But, I also think that was SO out of character for him anyway. I think having daughter and being lost and confused by it, the first person he would have reached out to for help would have been Lorelei! It's not like she was ann infant and he had cheated on her or something. This was from before he even knew Lorelei. I also was confused by how when Lorelei and Luke broke up after her parents vow ceremony, she was so broken up by it, depressed, couldn't get out of bed. Then the second time, it was just like....oh well, didn't work out. This was also out of character for her. This was the beginning of the end. The last two seasons felt forced and were not as enjoyable. All my opinion of course!

[Angelmaid]

Very true, I agree with all of you...This story has been addressed with Scott Patterson, and in two interviews he says that he hopes they will do a GG movie to give closure that the fans deserve it. I agree Mr. Patterson.
Instead of her running to Christopher, I wish the writer's had let them battle out what they had not been talking about all that time, there was plenty to work out without throwing an ill retreivable wrench in it. The only way out of that one, was to have Lorelai wake up from a bad dream, or to hash it out with Luke. The Hay Maze scene touched on it, but they needed more of that talk time to work it out. Another discrepancy was when Luke was in bed asking about having kids, and Lorelai, half ignored him and FINALLY said, "kids would be good." Then later she's talking to the real estate agent in front of the Twickham house. The real estate agent says, "this would be a great place for a family with kids." THEN Lorelai, says,"oh, not you too." UGH!!! That made me so MAD!!! It was like the woman was wishy washy about the kids, okay, but, didn't she know what she wanted with Luke or not? I didn't like that she proposed to him after coming out of a fight with Rory, it's like she jumped the gun, and just wanted to "be happy right now". I like L/L, yes we need a movie, and we need to see how these people matured together and worked it out!

Originally Posted by lulu1960 (View Post) I agree with this. It all came down to communication. Lorelai was afraid to rock the boat (gun shy from the rift with Rory and her first breakup with Luke) and Luke with keeping everything inside (Dark Day, anyone?) Remember, Luke didn't say anything about April for two months. So he wasn't much in the communication department either. But true, they used to tell each other stuff.

[SPA]

Angelmaid, Lulu, and ESPO -- all very good points. Angelmaid made an interesting comment.....Lorelai jumped at proposing to Luke just as she jumped in accepting Christopher's proposal -- instant gratification -- wanting out of pain and/or situation she was in. Still searching for what was going to make her content. Everyone thought it was Luke -- writing on the wall and such -- maybe that wasn't it at all. Maybe she's incapable of loving anyone unconditionally but Rory -- and even that was tested in Season 6. Lorelai is definitely an enigma -- she has qualities we all love and makes us laugh -- on the flipside of the coin, she has traits that make us want to bang our head against the wall. Lorelai was a child that had to grow up very fast -- and in turn, lost the chance to lose her childhood slowly and quietly -- We are seeing a woman stuck in a loop where growing-up lessons were not learned. She's needy for companionship -- insatiable -- there isn't enough love in the world that would make her content. It's sad that that's how the writers have written Lorelai Victoria Gilmore.

[Angelmaid]

In a movie, they could show how a person like this evolved. They do show a foundation for Luke and Lorelai's relationship by their friendship in the earlier years. They do love each other. However, Lorelai should have kept seeing the therapist that she talked to in the back seat of the the therapists car,(before going and giving Luke an ultimatum). I wonder if they had kept the show going, if they would have written how she finally worked through her baggage. Even after she proposed, she said, "Luke Danes, table for one, and Lorelai Gilmore, need a forklift for all her baggage." He also met her with a proposal with "let's get married right now" after his diner was destroyed by Kirk's car. They ran to each other for marriage when their worlds were crumbling around them. Both of them came at marriage as a security in the state of chaos. I truly believe they were meant for each other, but it was written as they were putting out fires. The romance surely would have met it's wake, when the dust settled, if the network could have given the show another season to bounce back, we didn't get to see the rainbow after all the storms....

Originally Posted by SPA (View Post) Angelmaid, Lulu, and ESPO -- all very good points. Angelmaid made an interesting comment.....Lorelai jumped at proposing to Luke just as she jumped in accepting Christopher's proposal -- instant gratification -- wanting out of pain and/or situation she was in. Still searching for what was going to make her content. Everyone thought it was Luke -- writing on the wall and such -- maybe that wasn't it at all. Maybe she's incapable of loving anyone unconditionally but Rory -- and even that was tested in Season 6. Lorelai is definitely an enigma -- she has qualities we all love and makes us laugh -- on the flipside of the coin, she has traits that make us want to bang our head against the wall. Lorelai was a child that had to grow up very fast -- and in turn, lost the chance to lose her childhood slowly and quietly -- We are seeing a woman stuck in a loop where growing-up lessons were not learned. She's needy for companionship -- insatiable -- there isn't enough love in the world that would make her content. It's sad that that's how the writers have written Lorelai Victoria Gilmore.

[Angelmaid]

I love their first scene together, season 1 epidsode 1.
I noticed Luke's Diner looks more like a flat store front at a different location. In later episodes Lukes is on a corner. Anybody else notice that? Love how they did the first scene, L/L make Stars Hollow a place many of us would enjoy to live in Coffee anyone?

[ds44]

Originally Posted by SPA (View Post) Angelmaid, Lulu, and ESPO -- all very good points. Angelmaid made an interesting comment.....Lorelai jumped at proposing to Luke just as she jumped in accepting Christopher's proposal -- instant gratification -- wanting out of pain and/or situation she was in. Still searching for what was going to make her content. Everyone thought it was Luke -- writing on the wall and such -- maybe that wasn't it at all. Maybe she's incapable of loving anyone unconditionally but Rory -- and even that was tested in Season 6. Lorelai is definitely an enigma -- she has qualities we all love and makes us laugh -- on the flipside of the coin, she has traits that make us want to bang our head against the wall. Lorelai was a child that had to grow up very fast -- and in turn, lost the chance to lose her childhood slowly and quietly -- We are seeing a woman stuck in a loop where growing-up lessons were not learned. She's needy for companionship -- insatiable -- there isn't enough love in the world that would make her content. It's sad that that's how the writers have written Lorelai Victoria Gilmore.

I still chalk up a lot of what they made her do in S5 to her control issues. Lorelai had to grow up really fast, but despite the difficult conditions its a case of the apple does not fall far from the tree. All three of these woman have severe control issues. They like to control not only their own destinies, but others as well. Maybe that's why she ended up in the profession she did. I think the show made a mistake in trying to sweep it under the rug. By doing so, it made the audience annoyed with her and took traits that used to not be a big deal or even indearing and it came across as grating.

that doesn't take away from the fact that these two loved each other. But, they are both pig-headed and needed to be shaken to the core. I still find it ridiculous that luke did not let her in. To me that was not how his character was designed. All of this imo, was due to the writers need to create false problems and keep them apart.

[lulu1960]

Originally Posted by covington (View Post) I still chalk up a lot of what they made her do in S5 to her control issues. Lorelai had to grow up really fast, but despite the difficult conditions its a case of the apple does not fall far from the tree. All three of these woman have severe control issues. They like to control not only their own destinies, but others as well. Maybe that's why she ended up in the profession she did. I think the show made a mistake in trying to sweep it under the rug. By doing so, it made the audience annoyed with her and took traits that used to not be a big deal or even indearing and it came across as grating. that doesn't take away from the fact that these two loved each other. But, they are both pig-headed and needed to be shaken to the core. I still find it ridiculous that luke did not let her in. To me that was not how his character was designed. All of this imo, was due to the writers need to create false problems and keep them apart.

I totally agree with the bold sentence. False problems, great way to put it.

[SPA]

Totally concur, Covington. It still baffles me that the writers/creator(s) went in that direction after the careful 4-year build-up. Still boggles my mind. Thanx for visiting us, Covington. Hope to see you more often in our little corner of the world!!