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#46 | ||||
Obsessed Fan
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,787
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I’ll never forget a teaching assistant for my Victorian Literature class telling us that even Charles Dickens had to change the end of Great Expectations to be more open towards Pip and Estella ending up together because that’s what many of the readers wanted and the readers were his source of income. So the audience was an entitled bunch even back in Victorian England, let alone now, in the age of completely commodified storytelling where ppl are literally “we’re the reason your work is successful and you earn money, so you’re gonna write it exactly the way we like.” Now honestly, I don’t value mainstream tv shows as an artistic medium very much because it’s all part of the entertainment industry, but I get defensive even of mainstream tv writers when they are pushed into changing their story to please someone else. I don’t think storytelling should work like that.
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And yeah, Peyton’s people-always-leave complex combined with Ellie’s appearance is a good explanation for Peyton’s behavior. Quote:
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Also agreed with all that you and everyone else said about PH. And given how positive Mark himself always was about them in interviews, I don’t get why he dropped them so easily. |
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#47 | |||
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Moderator of ... Doctor Who Marvel Cinematic Universe Chris Evans Chris Pine Only Murders in the Building Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 244,660
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Marlene Kng oh yes
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- HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN enjoying the" Hey, I know that guy ! " |
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#48 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,641
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I don't get why PH were dropped at times either. I think maybe they were forgotten just because they didn't serve certain storylines at certain times. I always got the sense they were still friends though, despite the lack of screentime. __________________
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#49 | |||
Fan Forum Star
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The thing is that a lot of storytellers try to claim that they dont change their SL's for fans, but its obvious that they do.
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I don't think the LP in season 3 was fan pandering all because if that were the case he would have given then scenes in season 2. I think it was all part of his "story". He was TRYING to show that LP couldn't;t be friends in season 2 because it was too hard, it just came across really badly. And then in season 3 I think he genuinely wanted to build them back up so he wrote that friendship back in and Peyton's feelings. A lot of the moments were pretty subtle so I don't think it was him trying to pander to fans at all. I think he knew he wanted to put LP back to gather the second he broke them up. You arent gonna put your endgame pairing together first and keep them together (with the exception of naley) you want to drag it out. All shows do it with their OTPS which is why I always knew it would go back to them. I think the whole dropping of PH and doing BH was more because of storyline and were things ended up and not because he was intentionally trying to tear them apart. Like I said before i think he was trying to give PH a storyline by having Peyton at her but it backfired. And obviously he didnt know what do with Brooke so he just had her buy the apartment and then BH stemmed from that and obviously he had to write them in scenes together. I feel like they could have stayed roommates without them being like insta!bffs! though. For me, that came out of nowhere. The whole maid of honor annoyed me but at the same time, what other female would Haley ask? |
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#50 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,641
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I think LP were always written intentionally in s1 and s3. s2 is where things went off course a bit but if you look back--there were some hints, but they were subtle as Alexa said. LP was pretty much the underdog ship when s3 was on. I remember how much the fanbase grew as s3 wore on and s4 aired.
I'm not sure if PH were intentionally pushed aside in s3 but it still wasn't cool. I wish they had had a bigger storyline that season but the friendships on this show are more like sub-stories than dominant ones. Unless it serves some kind of purpose, like BH did in s3. __________________
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#51 | |||
Obsessed Fan
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,787
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In retrospect, LP’s overall story roughly makes sense. I’d like to believe Mark knew what he was doing all along, but Idk. I just don’t trust him enough. Though I don’t doubt he did love LP more than anything else on this show.
And I agree that the writing for friendships overall kinda sucks. Other than BP and LH (and from s7 BH, I guess, but I didn’t actually watch those seasons) nothing was constant. Friendships appeared when they were convenient and disappeared when they weren’t. NP were also completely dropped as friends after early s5. I loved the NPH scene by the pool too and wish there were more. Quote:
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#52 | |||
Fan Forum Legend
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OTH was never that bad, and I'm grateful for that. I don't really think the intended endgame was ever swerved from, other shows aren't that lucky. Quote:
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#53 | |||
Fan Forum Star
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Yeah I mean, people claim that BH were this great friendship, and OK, Ill give them that in season 3, but PH were a great friendship in season 1. And no other season showcased that. BH were not close in 4, 5, 6, 7, or 9 to my knowledge. They had a few good scenes i 8 but nothing like how it was in season 3. So imo PH and BH were very even. In fact, PH had better scenes than PH in season 5 and in season 6 IMO.
I honestly think Mark just has other things on his mind he didn't find the friendships to be that big of a concern to him because his main focus was NH, LP, BP and LH and then all the other random pairings he brought along. Quote:
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And someone remind me because I forget, she signed the papers in 222 right? In New York and gave them to Lucas, but then just showed up in 223? Why? And then apparently stayed for the summer. So did she actually sign the papers or not? How come the annulment didnt go through then, they just canceled it? lol. Sorry Leigh I wont get into that argument because I am a big Emison supporter.... sorry. Maybe we should just leave that topic for another board. I will say i dont think changing Alison was the show's mistake. How about we just start with Ezria, i mean, really. |
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#54 | |||
Fan Forum Legend
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Changing Alison was just one of their mistakes (this is the show with the transphobic reveal and numerous fakeouts after all). Ezria is a whole other story, and an even more insulting one The fanpandering on that show is insane.
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I should really go over this again. |
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#55 | |||
Fan Forum Legend
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Last edited by stlavin95; 10-10-2016 at 04:59 PM |
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#56 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,641
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This thread has gotten a bit off topic with the BH and BL talk so Petra and I decided to (re)open the rant thread. Please post about things like that there. Thank you.
http://www.fanforum.com/f202/general...vent-63179089/ __________________
Last edited by rossfangirl86; 10-10-2016 at 05:06 PM |
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#57 | |||
Obsessed Fan
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,787
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Alexa, I also entirely forgot the part about either Nathan or Dan going to see Haley. I get why you thought that the marriage was not gonna last now. With scenes like that, you'd think that's where they were going. Sorry if this is off topic. I figured we might as well continue it here because it's about Haley. |
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#58 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,641
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^ Everyone has been respectful of each other which is the most important thing so it's okay to go off track a little bit. We just wanted to give you guys a place to go to discuss things that don't pertain to any of the threads here. We just noticed that there was interest in discussing certain issues so it made sense to us to make a thread specifically for that purpose.
Anyway, I think you guys are right about PH--they had a pretty consistent friendship for this show. I would've loved to see them in more scenes together but we got some pretty good stuff. __________________
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#59 | |||
Obsessed Fan
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,787
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The general rant thread is a great idea
And, about NH annulment papers, I couldn’t resist. I just fast forwared through 2.23 and 3.01 (emotionally scarring, both of them; caught glimpses of things I didn’t want to catch glimpse of). In 3.01 we see the “I love you” instead of the signature. Lol this show. Quote:
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#60 | |||
Fan Forum Star
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which they totally re-wrote in there, but ill talk more about that on the "rant" thread.
that was a great scene, i remember a few good scenes at the paino. i just adored haley's "We're a team, remember?" Even though Mia was somewhat in evolved in that, Haley said its few times without her around. Another scene I loved was the scene on the bed, staring at the fan and also the scene with Mia on the bed singing and Haley twirling Peyton's hair. Such a hil/joy moment there. |
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