mjgchick

I guess thats where you and I are different. I just will never see some good in Dan no matter how many people he saves.

You know what I realized I rather they had Dan act the way Mick did with Peyton to Lucas then trying to redeem him. It sucks Mick was played by John because I think Paul would have done a great jo as the dead beat dad that really didn't give a damn and in no showing that he needed to be a father to her

Dammit 613 needs to happen so we can talk about Peyton's "condition"

I think in S3 before Dan killed Keith I would have loved to see Lucas and Dan have scenes where Dan is trying his hardest to thank Lucas but just couldn't because of his pride and the fact he actually thought his own son would kill him. Lucas may hate Dan but Lucas is just a better person then Dan.

this thread is going to be very popular I can see

eragon194

In other aspects, maybe yes, but with respect to letting go of the past, he's proving to be as stubborn as Dan. Dan could never let go of his grudge against Keith, a grudge that was developed several years back, a grudge that eventually led him to commit a horrible act. Same is the case with Lucas. He can't let go of an image he formed several years ago of Dan and IMO, if this were real-life, I'd see Lucas committing the same horrible act with Dan. Why? Because these kind of stubborn grudges tend to screw with the best of people. Lucas is exactly like Dan when it comes to this trait.

a*shot*of*whiskey

DL scenes>>>>DN

Just wanted to throw it out there.

mjgchick

Which is why I say Lucas should let go of his grudge with Lucas if he expects to be better then Dan but to have Lucas act like Dan did not kill his uncle that to me would be stupid writing. Way more stupid then Dan killing Keith in the first place.

Then again Lucas could just forget Dan all together seriously he has a beautiful wife to be and her "condition" too

Yes Laurie DL>>>NL because I for one never believe Nate hates Dan. I think he just acts that way because he thinks its the right thing to do.

In that fic Far too Late I think Peyton allows Dan to see their daughter but Lucas is still pissed in this instance I'm on Lucas side

sunchick116

Lucas IS Dan. they are much more alike than Nathan and Dan will ever be.

a*shot*of*whiskey

I don't think Lucas=Dan. I think Lucas definitely has traits that are from Dan. Same goes for Nathan. But that does not make them equals in my eyes. I mean, c'mon now.

TeAm*LP*CoOkIeS

Yeah, I don't see that either.

a*shot*of*whiskey

Yeah, that's ...

TeAm*LP*CoOkIeS

lol

willowhaven

See....here again, I do disagree. I have known a couple of guys who fought a battle with a woman for a child and lost. And in fact these guys are decent guys, who's kids can't stand them, because Momma painted them as the bad guy. Guys who fought for years, wasted tons of money, only to NEVER get even visitation of their kids. Women are still considered primary custodian in most custody cases, no matter how unfit or crappy a parent they are. Considering Karen at least is a fairly decent person, she would have most likely been a lock for primary/sole custody.

Here is the issue. In a lot of states, an unmarried woman basically has ALL custody rights to a kid. And without looking up NC law, but from what the show said (and due to the fact that they knew the law about a mandatory one-year separation for divorce, which I know is true because I tried to get mine in NC, but ended up doing mine through KS to avoid the one-year wait I think they researched the law for the show) I get the feeling NC is the same. In the episode where the custody thing came out, it was said that bc Deb was pregnant the attorneys said Dan was going to lose.

SO...if Karen denies visitation, there aint jack Dan could have done. He has no rights. So, fighting over and over simply was a losing proposition. NOW...you can use Nathan as an example....however, my rebuttal is this. I seriously wonder whether Dan would have been as bad if Karen hadn't have cut him out. I think it made him more possessive of Nathan. I think it tempered his whole parenting aspect. I really think that Karen set a lot of things in motion...she permanently destroyed what was left of Dan and Keith's relationship (remember, Keith thought Dan was lying when he told him that he attempted to get custody...that came out in S1). She destroyed Lucas' relationship with him by denying it and allowed Lucas to believe his father never wanted him. She refused child support which caused Lucas to believe his dad hated him. I don't blame Keith at all. He thought he was cleaning up Dan's mess. He didn't realize Karen lied to him every bit as much as anyone else. Keith should be commended for stepping in. She denied both Lucas and Nathan any opportunity to be brothers for years. Her hostility was very evident, even in how she treated Deb in S1...when it was obvious that Deb harbored none towards her.

I think the fact that he did set aside a trust fund for Lucas for college means a lot. It sounds like he took what he would have given as child support and dumped it somewhere for when Lucas was an adult and could make his own decision. This says a lot. It wasn't all talk. He cared from afar. People often say Dan is all talk, but this is all stuff he did behind the scenes. It seems to me he did what he could in what limited capacity he had. He wasn't evil. He just was a man who had his rights took from him. And in this respect, I do feel sorry for him. And I wonder a lot about what could have been if things would have played out differently.

a*shot*of*whiskey

Why did Dan and Karen break up anyway? Was Deb already in the picture?

Whose decision was it to not have Dan in Lucas' life? Was it Dan's or Karen's?

sunchick116

no. Dan broke up with Karen because he had a basketball scholarship and was going to go away to college. He met Deb at freshman orientation. It was Karen's decision to not have him around, from what i understand.

a*shot*of*whiskey

At that time, did he know Karen was already pregnant?

BTW, Highschool!D/K from Season 1 still freaks me out. Dan got hotter as he aged, and so did Karen

sunchick116

yes, Karen told him, and he left anyway. THAT'S what she was mad about. he picked basketball over their son.

i did forget what the deal was with the abortion though. did he want her to have one right away?

mjgchick

OMG Laurie go back and watch S1

I think Dan asked Karen to have an abortion. Dan even said it in a snide comment to Lucas I think

My ankle hurts