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Old 02-25-2005, 02:14 PM
  #61
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Here's the new question for this week:
What do you think about religion?

I'm pretty sure Cat meant this in response to Hebba's speech:
Quote:
I still believe you were unfair to me that day. You judged me superficially. You look at me, and you see an oppressed Muslim woman, forced to cover her head by a misogynistic and backwards culture. That's what you meant; you see me as a victim. I don't think you see my choice in all of this...

You know, there are two girls in my hall who are anorexic, one has breast implants, and two others are considering surgery either to their body or their face. All of them obsess over their weight and their clothes and their looks. This is what your culture does to women. It suggests ideals they'll never attain, and when they fail to attain them, tells them they're worthless. You talk about my conditioning, but what you don't understand is that I am a feminist, just like you, and this is part of that. This is me saying "no" to all of the ways your culture tries to exploit me. This is me saying "yes" to my religion, and my god, not "no" to being liberated. I am liberated.
Also things to ponder:
Do you like having a new question posted on Fridays or do you think they should be posted another day?
Can you think of future questions for the debate?

Thanks
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Old 02-25-2005, 03:46 PM
  #62
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Okay, I'm going to do my very best not to go on a Grace-sized rant about religion. I really am....

I attended an international Christian school until the tenth grade because I had already started school in Britain when I was five and my parents did not want to put me back into Kindergarten for a year when we moved countries. The majority of the parents who sent their children to this school were missionaries. I was one of very few children who had parents not involved in missions. The school was good. I'm not going to knock it for even a moment, but it has made me far more aware of the Christian religion than many Brits of my age. There's this attitude of 'we are right and everyone else is going to hell'. There's also extreme blinkardness and constant contradiction. Love your neighbor as yourself but never date someone who isn't a Christian. One teacher even said that Catholics weren't Christians. It's as though things are stuck in this giant time warp where the values held 2,000 years ago are still appropriate in this modern age.

Now I'm in my twenties and I am an atheist. For a while, when I was young, I believed in the concept of God and Jesus dying for my sins. I also believed in Christkind (the german equivalent of Santa Claus) and that various horrible things might attack me if I left my foot dangling out from under the covers while I slept.

It always strikes me as ironic that some of the same people who believe in things that contradict all rational thinking continue to cause such hatred and hurt to their fellow human beings. A part of me wants to believe that the dreamers strive for mutual understanding, but history has shown us time and time again that this is not the case. I do not agree with banning religion as occured in the USSR and other communist nations. It is a fundamental part of freedom of expression. The problem arrises when a relgion becomes an ideology which must be imposed, when people are discriminated against and religion is used as its basis. Mix such attitudes with politics and you're left with soft-fashism. We could all do without this, I am sure.

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate religion at all, so long as those practicing it accept that it is a life-choice, that they can accept that others chose not to and are contented in doing so. I associate religion with innocence, with childhood and this ability to believe in anything, when we listened wide eyed, enthralled by everything around us as we discovered the world. In every continent across the globe, before man even invented the concept of nations, there has been this need to explain why we are here and how we are supposed to live. We all possess this inherent need to know, to explain it all, to reach a feeling of self- actualisation and fulfillment. It's what makes us human. And so, in every part of the world we find religion. No religion is unique. Its intent is to help man find a purpose, to explain the impossible with cookie-cutter explanations. These days, with all that we know, with all that goes on around us, if somebody can still believe in a higher spiritual being or beings, and, even more incredible, the majority of a holy text written centuries ago, then it says so very much about them. They've remained young at heart somehow, because they can still see fairy dust where I see flour.
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:09 PM
  #63
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Wow, that is is a powerful post. I agree with the last statement the most.

Quote:
They've remained young at heart somehow, because they can still see fairy dust where I see flour.
Fairy Dust... nice choice of words. It does take a young heart to believe in something that you can not see. However, that is what faith is. Believing... much as with some science. Like gravity.. I can not see it but I believe that it exsists. It is my faith in that idea that holds some things together in a way.

People need something to believe in something to hope for, to reach for. Let that be God, let that be love, let that be others. As long as your faith and believe doesn't hurt or cause harm to others in anyway I won't have a real problem with it.

Mankind has always been afraid of what it doesn't understand... That is our true great weakness. The failure to trust and to try and understand without mocking. I hope that I can live to see the day when crimes of hate are a rare thing indeed.

I will say this and some of you may not understand but I believe in war. I think war is a needed thing at times. While war does cost lives and affects people on a grand scale. That is the point, the fact that it affects people. That war can show people the true horrors of their crimes, of their hate. It can show us why we have to stand together not as one nation or one world but as one species. When a crime is done to one of us it should affect the other no matter how small.

Right now a huge crime is being done. Homosexuals are being denied the right to declare their love. How can people see that as a good thing? If we deny love, what is left?
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Old 02-25-2005, 06:15 PM
  #64
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Very good points made

I'm Catholic and I used to go almost every week, then I stopped going for a while(my grandmother died a year ago and it just reminded me of her funeral), but I just started going again. I think that it's good to have something to believe in, but I don't think I would ever force my religion upon someone else. I don't believe in every single thing the Church says is "holy" or right, but I still think the idea of Church is a good thing. I like the idea of morals and beliefs in a person's life.

Michael - I see where you're coming from in that war, in some cases, is almost unavoidable and needs to occur. I also don't think it's right for homesexuals not to be able to marry their mate

In an attempt to try to expand this topic and not have it solely on Christianity - what is everyone's thoughts regarding other religions?
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Old 02-27-2005, 02:55 PM
  #65
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Well, when I was a child, I was Christian, and when I was a teen I was first an Orthadox Jew, then a Wiccan. Now I'm an atheist, and it works best for me. I belive that people should have a right to believe what they want, but to remember that not everyone agrees with them.

Michael--excellent point about gay marriage. I agree completely.
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:41 AM
  #66
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Some questions to ponder:

What are your thoughts regarding eastern countries being "Americanized"?


Also, do we all like the idea of having a new question on Fridays?
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:50 PM
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Sounds good! And I like that question idea.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:15 PM
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On the subject of religion (if were still talking about that) when I was in the 7th grade until midway through tenth grade I attended a christian school. For the most part I found it to be a very loving and nurturing enviorment compared to the 50,000 public schools i've attended but at the same time i found it to be very stifiling and judgmential because christianity for the most part (in my opinion) is a religion that stifles and judges : you can do this you can't do that you can believe in this but not that you can love this person but not that person and so on... Over time it just became something that didn't feel right for me. But religion is still something i respect deeply and feel that our society has a need for now more than ever people NEED to have faith in something in order to survive. Someday I hope i'm able to find something to believe in again the way I use to so deeply believe in god (who knows maybe it will be god) but ultimately like it's been said before religion is a choice and it doesn't matter what you believe in and what you don't a persons faith should be respected. That's just how i feel hope it wasn't to rambly.
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Jim: I’m really sorry if that’s weird for you to hear, but I needed you to... hear it. It’s probably not good timing. I know that. I just...
Pam: What are you doing? What do you expect me to say to that?
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:09 PM
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Good thoughts, all. Not too rambly.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:26 PM
  #70
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deathofacat I keep running into you everywhere huh? How are ya doin' sweetheart
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Jim: I was just um...I’m in love with you
Pam: What?
Jim: I’m really sorry if that’s weird for you to hear, but I needed you to... hear it. It’s probably not good timing. I know that. I just...
Pam: What are you doing? What do you expect me to say to that?
Jim: I just needed you to know. Once.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:29 PM
  #71
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Fine. You, cupcake?
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:30 PM
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Just peachie
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Jim: I was just um...I’m in love with you
Pam: What?
Jim: I’m really sorry if that’s weird for you to hear, but I needed you to... hear it. It’s probably not good timing. I know that. I just...
Pam: What are you doing? What do you expect me to say to that?
Jim: I just needed you to know. Once.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:31 PM
  #73
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Excellent. We can continue this lovely convo on the Off-topic thread, since I have a feeling Chrissy will skin me otherwise.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:34 PM
  #74
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Well I wouldn't want anyone flayed so we will continue on off topic on a later date
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Jim: I was just um...I’m in love with you
Pam: What?
Jim: I’m really sorry if that’s weird for you to hear, but I needed you to... hear it. It’s probably not good timing. I know that. I just...
Pam: What are you doing? What do you expect me to say to that?
Jim: I just needed you to know. Once.
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Old 02-28-2005, 05:35 PM
  #75
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Here's to that!
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