Holland Fan Forever

I was someone who thought from the start that Holly J and Sav were not having fun or given much to do together otherwise but there were certainly opportunities for more screen time but most of it was given to Holly J alone. I think Holly J was really embarrassed by the events of Vegas Night and her role there with the stripping. I don't even think that Sav got a chance to even process being upset with Holly J for sleeping with Declan, the whole thing seemed to me like Sav really had no choice but to forgive Holly J for whatever she may do because otherwise Sav really doesn't have anything to do on-screen, but then again, it's never really about Sav's feelings in any way. The fact that Sav had really no choice but to forgive Holly J just shows me just how much of a corner Sav was written into. To me there was never this real, believeable sense of Sav wanting to forgive Holly J, the writers made it so he had no real choice because otherwise I don't think he would be left with much to do.

I also thought that while Alli and Sav's storyline was supposed to be about their family that it was not surprisingly all about Alli in the end. This is also why I really wasn't surprised that we didn't get a scene of Sav standing up to his parents because I have always felt that the writers and TPTB were never all that concerned with Sav and his storylines but instead more concerned and willing to deal with Alli and her storylines. Sav deserved better and I think if this were Alli in Sav's position that there would be a confrontation scene. I loved how the one time Holly J could be there for Sav that she's sick and on her own and how he had to come see her in the end and to me it just reinforced everything that was wrong with Holly J and Sav's relationship because to me everything in their relationship was all about Holly J all the time and no matter what Sav said or did it never really seemed to matter or was considered to be good enough for the writer's to actually explore. I thought that the original intent of this storyline was to make Sav more visible but, instead Sav was put on the back burner again and basically invisible in this storyline. I think it's hard to like much less take a couple seriously when it's all about one person all the time and the other person is left without much to do outside of the relationship and that's not even going into the fact that we never get even simple scenes with these two because Holly J is too busy with her own life and doesn't make time for Sav. It was always right now for her with Sav and there just wasn't this sense that he was ever important to her and that they were both just in two different places.

kindle

I believe her words were, "there's something very satisfying with an ending like that; the Notebook is a true classic." She appears to be idolizing the ideals of relationships in this movie. To me, it just seems like she's contradicting her previous statement to Sav about how there was 'pressure' to be someone else or live a fairytale life and feel like a princess. Both these ideals about relationships wouldn't be great for Holly J 2.0. But, to be fair, you can't help who you love. I certainly don't agree anymore, as a reformed ex-Dolly J fan, but I'm not disputing who she wants, but her choices.

DollyJfan4life

Honestly, I never understood that comment to begin with. If there was ever a time she was herself it was when she was with Declan.

Holland Fan Forever

I think Holly J like anyone else can't help who they love and it's not Sav and I think that Sav deserves to be with someone who will actually like and appreciate him. To put it simply, I think Sav deserved and deserves better and that Sav couldn't give Holly J what she wanted but, to me in the end the relationship was really all about Holly J all the time and even in the hospital scene it was Sav who reached out to her we never saw her do that. I think it would be nice to see Sav alone without a girlfriend on screen or without his storyline going back to his family. I think that Holly J and Sav lived in this fairytale where they didn't really have any issues or obstacles to deal with and to me that was unrealistic especially for this show where like them or not the other couples got to have issues and obstacles to deal with.

necklace

I wouldn't really put Holly J's lack of feelings towards Sav to delusions. You either have feelings for someone or not. I know it's easy to pin it to Holly J being delusional or lying to herself or even saying that she's chasing a fantasy. Lack of money didn't stop Holly J from falling for Spinner. Holly J might love Declan but currently she doesn't want to be with him. And clearly she wants to feel something for Sav but she just doesn't. That's all there is to it. She went inot this relationship not feeling it and she didn;t develop any feelings during it, either.

So I think it's unfair to pin Holly J's lack of feelings for Sav on her previous relationship with Declan. She simply doesn't like Sav and it's probable that if there was no Declan, she wouldn't fall for Sav anyway.

Even if someone is looking for a fairytale it does not prevent them from falling for other people, because it's an involuntary process. You can't chose who you fall for or who you will not fall for. It just happens. So you can believe that you want something else but once that one person comes, you don't anymore. So even if Holly J is searching a fairy tale, the fact that Sav didn't change her mind means that he is not the right person, Declan or not.

vivalalove

I agree. This has been a part of Sav's character ever since we found out about his family's culture and they really could have made Sav a character to be cared about. Once he graduates, I don't think I'll really notice or care that he's gone.

In regards to other posts, I don't think we should have to reconsider our opinions. This is an anti thread. It's a place for people who don't like a couple to discuss all the negativity they want to. I'm not a fan of Declan/HJ anymore either, but I'll never post in their anti thread.

DollyJfan4life

Agreed, you explained it better.

kindle

Absolutely, I believe this is true to an extent when it comes to 'love' feelings.

Fair enough. But, there are a lot of factors that I can't ignore. I was baffled by her statements to Fiona about her description of love and her struggle to call Declan when she was hospitalized. If she's having these feelings when she's with Sav, it's clear that there's something lingering there that can certainly contribute to opening your mind to something/someone right in front of you (Sav). What's more, the fact that she went and got together right away with Sav and admitted to him at the hoedown that she 'likes him a lot' (whether that be for fun or simple attraction) has bearing on how the relationship could've panned out.

So, with this in mind, I choose to believe that as probable as it is that she wouldn't have fall for Sav without these factors, I think it's just as probable that should have if these factors were skewed: a) her feelings for Declan were settled in a clear cut way (and they weren't considering her longing looks for him before he last left) and b)if she were to consider Sav at a much later time than right after a long-term relationship ending.


For sure. I agree, this happens in real life all the time, but I'd like to think that it's an emotional and trying time for Holly J considering all that she's been through since the Delcan-break-up. Sometimes, we are clouded by our internal ideals and stresses in our life, and we don't always make the right decisions. Something about not realizing what you have until you've lost it and find out that going back to an old love/life and rehash its complexities rings true for me here. That may not be the case here, but I do want Savvy J to be one of these cases.

Holland Fan Forever

I don't think anyone should have to reconsider their opinion if they are in anti-thread because the intent is to discuss why someone doesn't like a certain couple. I also don't think that the writers did much to make Sav someone to actually care about and I don't think I will notice or care that he's gone but, it certainly didn't have to be that way but, I think that the writers gave up on Sav's character a long time ago. The writers somehow turned the Sav marriage storyline into how Anya felt for example and I would've thought that this was a good chance to have a storyline actually be about him for one thing. I think that even with Declan not being there much and also having Holly J date Sav still didn't give much for Sav to do and this to me said a lot. I think that Declan had more potential storylines because the writers seemed more willing to deal with his character, but, I do wish more would've been done to make me care about Sav alone but, it never happened and to me it's way too little and too late now especially knowing that there are a new group of kids coming next season. The Lakehurst kids outside of Holly J really didn't get many storylines or character development and they deserved better as far as relationships and overall storylines.

kindle

I'm not necessarily imposing my opinions on anyone and telling them to believe me, and I'm not being threatening or rude. I just like to debate. But, if it's not allowed according to the board rules, I won't anymore. I just like to discuss, that's all.

necklace

^ Still her relationship with Declan is also something that made Holly J who she is today. So if in order to have Savvy J work out we would have to erase a part Holly J's past, then that means that they are not good together.
Also, I don't think she was being idealistic in her description of love. She didn't speak about passion when she described her feelings for Declan. When she said about feeling like you can get through anything because you've found that one person, she was talking about comfort. She wanted to call the person she loves when she was feeling bad, because she knew she would find comfort in him. Now, I'm not a fan of Dolly J at all (you know that) but that description of love wasn't fairytale- like at all IMO. She hasn't spoken about obstacles or passion but about feeling stronger with that other person by your side and in all honesty, that's what love is about. Two people being together and giving each other strenght.

The fact that she considers the Notebook a classic? Well, majority of people do, yet I wouldn't accuse them all of running after unreachable ideal.

When it comes to me, I don;t mind at all

DollyJfan4life

Agreed, once again and yeah, I don't mind either. Just as long as everyone is respectful in their debates.

kindle

Truth: her relationship with Declan changed her for the better; she took out that stick up her butt (sorry, I'm so crass), and started to loosen up. But, you don't need to erase past relationships in order to start new ones, more promising ones. To get all personal, I believe that I would not be the same if it weren't for the experiences I've had with other guys, but all I had to do to make things work and open my mind to other guys was to put the past in my past. Basically, if you're still thinking longingly about another guy, and are wanting to call them when you clearly are with someone else, it's safe to assume that a part of you is still hanging on to those feelings. I mean, that's what I'm assuming of her and her statements.

She mentioned to Sav that there was pressure to be someone, like a princess. That's where all my fairy tale mentions are stemmed from, heh.

Your description and Holly J's description of love are absolutely true, and, figuratively, anyone can define their current relationship as a fairytale, but the fact that she brought Declan up during her talks of love to help Fiona understand love better tells me this: when she thinks of love, she thinks of Declan. So, when thinking of Declan in the hospital and love = Declan, I can only think of one logical answer. And, Dolly J fans can rejoice in that fact, at least.

The Notebook, A Walk To Remember, and other teen dramas are notorious for giving us false hope for an ideal partner. I'm not saying we don't see the logic in life, but it has some affect to an extent on the ideal partner we want to see. Everyone is different though, so I'm not generalizing, but I know from experience that some girls do take fictional ideals to heart.

In all honesty though, I agree with this thread on one fact: Savvy J is not right... Not, right NOW, anyway.

Holland Fan Forever

I think that Holly J just didn't speak highly about Sav without even thinking about it and I felt that her sarcasm and intelligence had to be watered down in order to even deal with Sav on any level. I think that perhaps if Sav was on screen and it was more about him alone and not his girlfriend or his parents than things may have been different. I thought that instead of working together that Holly J and Sav just worked against each other and that it was a really a relationship that was all about her all the time and I've never been a fan of any relationship on television that's written like that and there are couples on this show that I don't like for that reason. I am also not a fan of any ship where a complete 180 has to be done in order for them to even try to work because then we don't see how the character got from point A to point B.

necklace

Well, of course but it's not like Holly J closed her mind off on other guys. She just still hasn't got over Declan and what happened to her in Hide and Seek made her aware of that fact. After that she can't be with Sav. If anything it would mean she was in denial before, when she told Sav in Halo that he comes first. She wanted him to come first because she was worried that with Declan it was all a fairytale. But after realizing that in the time of need Sav wasn't the one she wanted to be held by, she realized that she couldn't lie to him or herself anymore. Holly J understood that she can't fall for him, despite wanting too. And I disagree that she was holding onto Declan, because everything she did this season was to separate herself from him further. She broke up with him, she refused to take him back in LL and she got onvolved with Sav despite still having feelings for Declan. She wanted to get over him but she just couldn't, it's to early for that. And yes, maybe Savvy J would have worked better if they got together after Holly J got over Declan but they didn't so they're not working out.