Fan Forum - The Hedonists [Anti-SavvyJ] #4 Because they are the ones actually living in a fantasy

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Honestly, I don't find Sav to be that nice of a guy at all. Not after everything he put Anya through.

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Honestly, I don't find Sav to be that nice of a guy at all. Not after everything he put Anya through.

Well, all the characters have something they've done that isn't too nice. Overall, I think Sav's a good guy. I mean, it was easy for Anya to be angry at Sav for not telling his parents about her, because she's not the one with parents who won't let her date someone who's not of the same race. As someone who's friends with someone who has to go through the same thing, I get where Sav was coming from. I mean, would Anya have been able to do it if it were her? It's not like Sav is an adult who can do whatever he wants. His parents still have complete control over him. I understood why she didn't want to have to put up with that though. She shouldn't have to be in a relationship with a guy whose family won't accept her. But she kept coming back to him over and over again. She kind of brought it on herself. I did kind of think he was a jerk for making fun of Anya's LARPing though.

If Sav's adult enough to date behind their back, I think he should be adult enough to be upfront with his parents.

I don't think Anya necessarily brought it on herself at all. Anya loved him and wanted to give him a chance. Plus, the last time Sav promised her things would be different. I don't think Anya was wrong for wanting to trust someone she loved.

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If Sav's adult enough to date behind their back, I think he should be adult enough to be upfront with his parents.

Well, he was upfront with them, and they still didn't care about what he wanted. :shrug: His parents wanted him to marry a girl that was Indian and Muslim and that was that. There's only so much arguing you can do. In the end, he still lives with his parents, so they get the final say. For some kids, they can be upfront with their parents and have the luxury of no consequences, because they're lucky enough to have parents that are more lenient and don't care about things like race, and some other kids don't. That's just how I see it, of course. I think that it might have been difficult for Anya to understand. Her parents probably don't care. But it's different for Sav.

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I don't think Anya necessarily brought it on herself at all. Anya loved him and wanted to give him a chance. Plus, the last time Sav promised her things would be different. I don't think Anya was wrong for wanting to trust someone she loved.

Yes, but if I knew a guy's family wasn't going to accept me, and there was nothing to be done, then I guess I'd either have to keep dating him without his parents' knowledge until he was old enough to live on his own and start making decisions without his parents' influence, or I would move on to someone else. When they broke up, it was because Sav wouldn't tell his parents about her, and then when he did, they didn't want him to date her. So, he lied and told her that his parents knew he was still dating her, because if his parents were really aware of it, they probably wouldn't have let them actually be together. And then the last time, he tells her things will be different, and I agree that he shouldn't have lied to her and made her think he would actually tell them, but she ends up breaking up with him for the last time after that anyway, because she realizes they're bad for each other. His parents would never have accepted her and Sav can't really do anything about it. We've seen what happens when he tries to go against them. They'll have none of it. And Anya wants to be with someone who doesn't have to sneak around with her. So it's better if they're not together. I was just glad the pairing finally came to an end because I thought the ship had reached that point where all it does is drag both characters down.

I guess it just became obvious to me after whole thing with his parents and the concert, how strict they are. In order to do go to a concert, Sav had to sneak out and things ended badly for him. Now, if Sav had told his parents he was still dating Anya, I assume they would have tried to constantly put a stop to it. And I don't know if I think telling his parents would be worth it if it meant that he and Anya would just have to end up dating behind their back either way.

But my opinion on this is going to be different than everyone else's anyway, considering personal experiences. So don't pay attention to me and my bitterness. :)

I think that after Sav treated Anya so badly that in many ways it's like watching karma come back to bite given how Holly J just walks all over Sav but I think that regardless of what Sav did in the past with Anya that he was going to be a push over for Holly J because no one who's part of the powers that be bothered to let Sav do much of anything over the last three years and that shouldn't be held against her but it is and will be. I don't hold anything about Sav not being given actual development and or storylines against Clare and Eli or anyone else who is new on the show because they weren't even on the show when Sav should've been getting storylines and character development.

:bump:From the promo it seems like we won't be seeing too much of those two. Have to say that it doesn't bother me in the slightest:)

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From the promo it seems like we won't be seeing too much of those two. Have to say that it doesn't bother me in the slightest

Seriously.

I think that part of the reason I can't take Sav and Holly J seriously as a couple is because they don't appear to take themselves seriously as a couple.

They've said in their own words that they're just together to have fun. Now, if we maybe got to see some conflict between the two, or even separate, internal conflict, where they realize that there's more they want to the relationship and they maybe argue about that, or struggle with admitting that to themselves because they're afraid of "getting hurt" or whatever their reasons are, then it would be a start in the right direction.

And I get that that's the point. They're together because they both agreed to a non-serious relationship. It saves them the trouble of having to deal with the issues that come along with that. And that's great...for a couple that have no genuine feelings for each other. Supposedly, I'm expected to buy that people like Sav and Holly J would have meaningful feelings for each other, and yet, they have no serious relationship. The reason why? The only conclusion I can come to is that they don't find the other person worth the effort or trouble, otherwise they would be in that kind of relationship at this point. But they just don't want to have to deal with that.

I can understand why Sav may want to stay away from relationship drama: because he doesn't want his parents to get involved. He knows he can't tell them about her, and if he does end up in a serious relationship with her, I think he knows Holly J will expect him to tell his parents. And he doesn't want to be under that kind of pressure again. Whereas Holly J...well, she knows all about what happened with him and Anya, so she probably doesn't want to be in a real relationship with a guy who won't tell his parents about her. So it's either that, or the fact that I just don't think she likes Sav as much as he likes her. And a lot of you guys might even argue that Sav doesn't even really have true feelings for Holly J.

Now, clearly there's at least some physical attraction there, otherwise they wouldn't be using each other for "fun" unless they were really desperate. (Maybe they are :D). But anyway, I do think Sav at least has a crush on Holly J, and I guess she must have some feelings for him as well, considering the way that she seemed upset when it looked like they were "breaking up" (for lack of a better word). But I just don't think the way their feelings are presented is that convincing.

Besides that, I don't really understand the attraction between them at all. :shrug: But that's another thing entirely.

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Originally Posted by Kwinks (Post 53678301)

Seriously.

I think that part of the reason I can't take Sav and Holly J seriously as a couple is because they don't appear to take themselves seriously as a couple.

They've said in their own words that they're just together to have fun. Now, if we maybe got to see some conflict between the two, or even separate, internal conflict, where they realize that there's more they want to the relationship and they maybe argue about that, or struggle with admitting that to themselves because they're afraid of "getting hurt" or whatever their reasons are, then it would be a start in the right direction.

And I get that that's the point. They're together because they both agreed to a non-serious relationship. It saves them the trouble of having to deal with the issues that come along with that. And that's great...for a couple that have no genuine feelings for each other. Supposedly, I'm expected to buy that people like Sav and Holly J would have meaningful feelings for each other, and yet, they have no serious relationship. The reason why? The only conclusion I can come to is that they don't find the other person worth the effort or trouble, otherwise they would be in that kind of relationship at this point. But they just don't want to have to deal with that. I don't think Holly J likes him as much as he likes her and I think that through Declan and their relationship we got to see that she can care about someone else and not just her wants and needs all the time but, she treats Sav like he's completely not worth her time and effort and he puts up with that behavior because he's desperate and needy and would have no real purpose on screen if he wasn't dating her

I can understand why Sav may want to stay away from relationship drama: because he doesn't want his parents to get involved. He knows he can't tell them about her, and if he does end up in a serious relationship with her, I think he knows Holly J will expect him to tell his parents. And he doesn't want to be under that kind of pressure again. Whereas Holly J...well, she knows all about what happened with him and Anya, so she probably doesn't want to be in a real relationship with a guy who won't tell his parents about her. So it's either that, or the fact that I just don't think she likes Sav as much as he likes her. And a lot of you guys might even argue that Sav doesn't even really have true feelings for Holly J.

Now, clearly there's at least some physical attraction there, otherwise they wouldn't be using each other for "fun" unless they were really desperate. (Maybe they are :D). But anyway, I do think Sav at least has a crush on Holly J, and I guess she must have some feelings for him as well, considering the way that she seemed upset when it looked like they were "breaking up" (for lack of a better word). But I just don't think the way their feelings are presented is that convincing.

Besides that, I don't really understand the attraction between them at all. :shrug: But that's another thing entirely.

For a couple that is together just for "fun" I would say that they are rarely together and when they are something awkward happens (ie the Vegas Night Stripping) or they just simply sweep whatever conflict that comes about (ie Holly J slept with Declan) and because Sav is so desperate and needy he just takes her back no questions asked. The one time I saw Sav relax and be himself was when he was with Jenna and Holly J was not involved in that part of the storyline. This storyline isn't going to be about Sav and that isn't exactly hidden that Holly J is the one that the focus will be on and that's she's the one who carries the entire storyline but, it doesn't affect her as negatively as it does Sav because Holly J has other storylines and opportunities to be on screen where Sav has no other real storyline outside of this awkwardly written relationship storyline. I loved how a third party also known as KC and Jenna had to get involved to get Sav and Holly J back together and I think that if Holly J were really as upset about Sav as the writers were trying desperately to get us to believe that Holly J is smart, confident young woman who never needed help from a third party like this when there relationship troubles for her so I don't get why KC and Jenna who had nothing to gain or lose felt that they needed to "help" Holly J.

I think it's really hard to take a couple seriously when they clearly don't and it certainly doesn't help that Sav gets the most awkward things to do or say and Holly J has done so many things and accomplished so much and putting her with Sav just reinforces everything that is wrong with Sav. The last thing Sav really needed was another relationship storyline because we already know he is a disaster in a relationship and that not unlike Anya TPTB were not willing to give Sav any real sense of purpose without being in a relationship that is because I don't think he matters at all to the writers and the powers that be if he's not dating someone and Holly J doesn't need him or this storyline to get screen time. Alli may have bad judgement and make bad decisions and be the new Manny of the show but, the writers and the powers that be clearly favor her and Holly J over anything that really has anything to do with Sav. I don't think Holly J likes him as much as he likes her and I think that through Declan and their relationship we got to see that she can care about someone else and not just her wants and needs all the time but, she treats Sav like he's completely not worth her time and effort and he puts up with that behavior because he's desperate and needy and would have no real purpose on screen if he wasn't dating her, seriously. I don't think it's a good thing when even the little character development Sav had this season stopped completely for this awkwardly written storyline. The less I have to see of this relationship on-screen, the better.

Sav is sooo a rebound.

I think they've realized they need to put Holly J and Sav on the backburner since the whole Eli/Clare and Fiona/Adam have a much larger fanbase and more vocal too :nod:

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Originally Posted by loganandroryforever (Post 53682374)

Sav is sooo a rebound.

I think that needs to be brought fully to Sav's attention, but more than anything he needs to get a life outside of hanging around Holly J. This is really the same issue he had with Anya only Holly J has a life outside of being with Sav and not surprisingly TPTB and the writers have chosen to focus on her alone and not with Sav and I think that with Sav it's more than just being a senior and not being written for and given much to do or Sav has never been given much to do or say and that isn't going to change when there are younger, more compelling couples that are given actual storylines and development. I would love to know why Sav is still on the show at all because even before we see anything we all know it won't really be about him and it has got to be hard as actor for Ray to see and watch all of these younger kids get actual character development and storylines and he's stuck in yet another relationship storyline and to top it off TPTB doesn't seem to care much about that relationship or him as an individual person and that has never been hidden by TPTB either. I don't blame any of the younger kids for his lack of any character development because Sav has been on the show for over three years and there were plenty of opportunities to develop Sav and his character but let's be honest TPTB chose to deal with Alli and her storylines over anything to do with Sav.

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I think they've realized they need to put Holly J and Sav on the backburner since the whole Eli/Clare and Fiona/Adam have a much larger fanbase and more vocal too

To be honest, I don't think that popularity of the couple has anything to do with it at all. Sure Eclare is probably the fan's favorite (majority at least) but degrassi proved time and time again that they don't care about the shippers as much as their own preference. Look at Kenna. They get so much hate from the fanbase yet the writers chose to keep them together AND give them more screen time than Savvy J. Sav and Holly J get only a few scene and almost none that would show development of their relationship. We saw both Eclare and Fadam become friends; we didn't see Holly j and Sav make amends after the whole fake-pregnancy fiasco. We've seen Eclare spending some time together before some bigger feelings were introduced and how they've changed. We've seen the moment when Adam felt like Fiona could be the girl for him and her realising that she wouldn't mind a relationship with that special boy. We saw that they interacted with each other from that. We didn't get to see that in the case of Holly J and Sav. Now, you can like or dislike Eclare or Fadam but you can't deny that they did get a proper build up. Sav and Holly J getting together reminded me more of the way it happened to Peter/Mia and Spinner/Emma. Not to mention I completely missed the moment when he fell in love with her. Was it during the episode when they got together? No? When she stripped perhaps? While he stood uncomfortable on the stage watching Declan hug Holly J? I know it was when she was ignoring him! Seriously, that are all of the scenes I can recall with them.

see i think Eclare/Fadam/Kenna are getting the screen time is cause they know where their stories are headed.. Sav/Holly J i don't really think they do.... i don't think it has much to do with Fan Favorite but more of knowing what they what to do with the couples/characters...

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i don't think it has much to do with Fan Favorite but more of knowing what they what to do with the couples/characters...

Exactly. To be honest, I think it's about who the WRITERS love the best. Yesterday I visited the Glee thread on the Spoilers board and they said that someone (I think it was the writer of the show) admited that he got bored with one of the couples and decided to break them up, despite the fact that they've become quite popular with the fans. Perhaps that's what's going on with degrassi writers as well? As long as they love their couple they keep them together and once they get bored pick two random characters and decide to have fun by trying to make the audience like them? I think they focus less on the couples and more on the actual drama.If they decided to keep some couples with each other for longer, they would have a lot more time for other drama that might be going on with the characters,

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Originally Posted by KatieCTalksAlot (Post 53695690)

I think it's a little more than that. I think that this is another case where the writers and the powers that be care more about one half of a couple in this case Holly J and I have never gotten the impression that anyone who's part of the "Degrassi" powers that be has cared about Sav one way or another and honestly if TPTB did care about Sav's character and were actually invested in his storylines that he would've gotten more to do than be in two dead end, back burner relationships. Sav is a bit like Craig to me in that we've seen he's a disaster in a relationship but, instead of all of the attention being on Craig, this relationship is all about Holly J all the time. I also think that Sav is a bit like Toby as well where he's allowed to be there but, nothing is ever really about him and there were times when Toby certainly could've gotten a real storyline ie after JT's death but the show went in a completely different and to me safer direction. I think that Jake Goldsbie understood that he wasn't getting screen time and was put in an awkward position like Ray is but Jake became a recurring cast member. Sav also reminds me of Alex because she certainly could've been developed as a real character but as time went on she was never given much to do outside of being in a relationship and I thought that in the relationship with Paige especially that it was all about Paige all the time and that it was never really about Alex or Alex alone. I also keep in mind that this show has never really done much with its seniors so putting two of them in a relationship especially when one person has never done much of anything really doomed Holly J and Sav. It's also just too easy to make everything be all about Holly J and then have Sav just be forced to put up with Holly J regardless of what she does but, ironically this is being done to make it look like Sav has something to do. Holly J doesn't need Sav or this storyline to get screen time but Sav does.