Holland Fan Forever

I don't even care how it happens or who breaks up with who and why. Holly J and Sav could make anything look awkward and let's be honest in the end it will be all about Holly J and what she did or said and Sav is basically invisible in this storyline but he's really been treated badly all along and Holly J reinforces everything that is wrong with Sav without even doing much. Even when there could've been development and some direction in this storyline it has just been ignored in favor of other characters and their storylines, but this doesn't really affect Holly J because she doesn't need Sav in order to get screen time but Sav always needs someone else in order to get screen time and even when he is on screen it's never really about him anyway. I figured that if Holly J and Sav couldn't get screen time as a couple not just Holly J alone when Fitz, Zane, Riley and Bianca and Anya just as examples weren't on-screen much I don't see how in the world Holly J and Sav were going to somehow get screen time and development when all of these characters have all returned in some capacity to the show. I think that it is pretty telling in that one of the few times Sav is in a promo that it is really all about Alli and not about him or anything he did and I think at least with the other characters they aren't completely upstaged by both their sibling and their "girlfriend."

vivalalove

Loved the lack of affection between these two and the fact that when Chantay brought up the possibility of HJ being pregnant, she seemed disgusted at the thought of having sex with her own boyfriend. Too bad the breakup did not happen though.

Makes me wonder when exactly grad is....

Holland Fan Forever

I think that she did seem disgusted by by the idea of sleeping with her own "boyfriend" and they aren't affectionate with each other and when they are it comes across as completely forced and it's obvious that there just isn't time to deal with the fact that Holly J and Sav have zero romantic chemistry. I figure if there isn't much screen time for them now I don't forsee that changing. I just cannot support a couple or a friendship where one person is just there to hang out with the other person and Anya and Sav both fit this description. I also don't think it would take two episodes for Declan to get Holly J to a hospital and she again showed that she doesn't care about what Sav thinks.

DollyJfan4life

Even the simplest things like a forehead kiss or a hug look so awkward between them to me. They totally have zero chemistry, imo. Raymond is really someone Charlotte has no romantic chemistry with. I wish Landon could have stayed on the show. She really had awesome chemistry with him. I loved the scenes where he had to pick her up. Those were adorable. I even thought there was some chemistry there with her and Shane, but I understand why they never went there with their characters. Spinner was with Jane at the time. I think it would have defeated the purpose of what they were trying to do with Holly J. That would have just made her look even more bitchy.

Holland Fan Forever

I have never thought that Holly J was or would be the problem with this ship it was and always would be Sav in part because he gets the most awkward dialogue and even though he's been on the show for over three years he has had very little character development. Nothing good or bad ever really happens to him and it's always all about someone else in the end even if Sav could be involved. Holly J and Spinner were two popular characters with the fans and TPTB and both Charlotte and Shane can act and have been given storylines to show off their acting ability but this has never really happened with Ray/Sav who seems to get completely upstaged by those around him to the point that I am not sure why Ray wants to be there or why the writers and TPTB want him on the show in any capacity because his character does nothing constructive. I also thought that with Alli missing that this may be something that could've brought Holly and Sav together, but, no, Holly J has an illness and that will overshadow Sav once again and the ironic part to me is that I am not suprised that the one time Holly J could actually be there for Sav Holly J gets her own storyline where he's not really involved.

I think that Landon and Charlotte have natural chemistry and that they can both act and make weak material stronger and not all actors can do that. I wish Landon could've staued on the show as well because if nothing else we wouldn't have to see Holly J be completely watered down and held back by the fact that Sav has never been important enough to the writers and TPTB to actually get a decent storyline where it was about him. I don't blame EClare and the other new characters for the fact that Sav has never been given much to do because they weren't on the show for three years before they got storylines and there seems to be this attitude with Sav of he's not good enough to have his own storyline alone and he's not good enough to have a decent relationship storyline because both of his relationship storylines are on the back burner. I think at least Jake Goldsbie (Toby) realized he hasn't getting screen time or storylines and instead became a recurring character.

Kwinks

You know what pissed me off about Sav in Jesus, Etc.?

What he said to Alli. Now, don't get me wrong, Alli's not a favorite of mine, but seriously, what has she ever done to make his life a living hell? He has it pretty good if you ask me.

Now I was glad that he called her out on her blaming all her problems on other people, but what he said about her making his life a living hell was completely unnecessary. It made him no better than Alli.

Holland Fan Forever

I also never saw once how Alli made his life a living hell, she made her own life difficult, but, what she did never affected him unless you want to go into the fact that the writers and TPTB like Alli or not always favored Alli over Sav even if she was making one bad decision after another, but Sav never got to do anything constructive for himself. Sav has a pretty good life if you want things to have no drama and to just come across as an awkward plot device but, even when there could some drama for Sav it's ignored altogether or thrown in the background and nothing that ever goes on is actually about him. The Alli runaway storyline is all about Alli and everything that happens with Holly J and Sav is all about Holly J in the end let's be completely honest. I think that the writers and TPTB were never all that interested in Alli or Sav together or separately but, they did seem more willing to give screen time to Declan and Fiona together and separately and I think that ironically Alli/Melinda is the only person on the show that Sav/Ray has any real chemistry with and that "Jesus Etc." doesn't make him look good and if he's failing as a sibling and the Holly J/Sav relationship is completely on the back burner, what exactly is Sav doing on-screen period?

DollyJfan4life

Yeah, that's what I thought was pretty jerky off him in that scene.

Holland Fan Forever

Holly J and Sav seem to have a way to make even the simplest thing look really awkward and this couple doesn't really deal with any real issues but, every other couple here does in some way or another liike them or not. I think that someone who's part of TPTB thought that simply putting Holly J in a ship was going to enough to carry the entire ship but this ship does nothing good or bad and TPTB seems to always be more concerned about Holly J by herself and not with Sav or them together. I don't think TPTB ever really saw much potential with Sav and it shows in his complete lack of any real character development after all this time and this storyline with Holly J just reinforces to me everything that is wrong with Sav. I also don't think it helps anything here that Holly J/Charlotte can do circles around Sav/Ray whenever she wants and it's not like this show hasn't had good opposites attracts couples because they have one right now to me with EClare but Holly J and Sav have not only failed as a couple, I would list this couple as an epic failure.

Holland Fan Forever

Bump!
Reasons to add to the list from "Hide and Seek."
1)Because They Hadn't Talked In Forever-The boyfriends/girlfriends I know are either always together or they make an effort to spend time together, but that never happens with Holly J and Sav and Holly J is the one with the hectic schedule it isn't Sav.

2)Because sick or well, we would still have a lack of affection between Holly and Sav

3)The end scene at the hospital couldn't have come across as more forced and cheesy, that was awkward to watch. I don't think flowers and a few words are going to make Holly J's condtion better and I don't think it would've taken Declan two episodes to get Holly to see a doctor. "Hide and Seek" literally came across as "Let's Give Charlotte/Holly J a dramatic storyline, but let's be honest Holly J has had better dramatic storylines even during this season. I also knew that this "illness" couldn't be all that serious when neither of the Coynes weren't mentioned and there was no mention of her friends Jane and Spinner either and especially Spinner who dealt with a real illness in the past. I thought that "Hide and Seek" had the potential to be a memorable two parter but, it wasn't and I don't think anything over-the-top or drastic had to be done in order to make this "illness" storyline better. "Degrassi" has done some good "illness" storylines but this isn't one of them in my opinion.

DollyJfan4life

Reasons list updated!

kindle

No offense, but I love a good debate =)

I don't think that's necessarily fair. They WERE both very busy; Holly J has always wanted to impress and 'get ahead' (whether its climbing Degrassi's social ladder or catching the eye of a politician), and Sav has a run-away sister to worry about. Those are legitimate reasons to not make time for kissy-kissy scenes or lovey-dovey picnic dates. I'm sure they called each other (possibly playing phone tag or just had short convos) and 'forever' isn't actually forever (a couple of days feels like a long time to couples who always interact normally), but those are scenes that wouldn't seem necessary/relevant to add to the episode.

A little personal note: I probably shouldn't speak on behalf of all young/burgeoning adult relationships out there, but when it comes to school and my future or family crisises, my bf and I have a mutual understanding on limits there should be placed for 'quality time'. They're both smart seniors, I think they'd understand this logic.

1) I think that scene was sincere, and I don't know what's so specifically awkward about their scenes together. For instance, that scene where he visits her was sweet and concise (there doesn't have to be a whole speech). It's a self-explanatory situation, and the most important part is that he was there for her. A few words and flowers aren't taken for face value here, they just mean that you care; there are plenty of studies in the medical field about positive support systems (family, friendships, intimate relationships) that lead to better health outcomes. Ahem, sorry, the inner nurse in me had to say it. Heh.

Glomerulonephritis is a serious illness, which you can lead to renal failure (and worse, death). Luckily they caught it in time. Anyways, she convinced everyone that they had nothing to be concerned about. Her symptoms are common (like the flu or head cold, both self-limiting), so, of course, they'd brush it off as easily as she did. Then, when she did seek help it had to be fast, meaning you had to call people who absolutely need to know aka Mom, and with dialysis and other treatments (both VERY tiring) you don't have time to twitter or bbm all your friends about your illness--people would just talk for you (and knowing Chantay that part wasn't a problem).

FYI, I think this whole illness shouldn't be overlooked just because there wasn't blood or anything flashy about the hospitalization, but self-medicating is serious business. They could've gone with another route and make her faint and flatline, but I think they got their point across without being too melodramatic. On the other hand, people should know that dialysis is a big deal...you're in the hospital for HOURS, CLEANING OUT YOUR FLUIDS (some people do this their whole life, and Holly J could've been one of them). I don't know if I can get more graphic, but....I won't for the queasy people on strep infection and what it does to your body.

Not every successful couple has to have screaming matches or deal-breakers to overcome, but I think you brought something up that's pretty clear: Savvy J is a relationship with little friction. It's true, couples challenge each other to an extent so there's growth and understanding. But, I think this couple shows that, if it weren't a rebound, it'd actually be a strong, mature relationship between two adults. Unfortunately, I am rooting for their fantasy future, thinking that rebounds work. But, I still vouch for their sincerity. It's there, it's in the way she smiles at him after doing something sweet (Charlotte's so pretty though, so maybe I'm just swooning), or the way he accepts her for her faults even when its hurts him. Again, a lot of maturity, but BAD timing for them to get together!


But, these are just my two cents!

kindle

Drawing from my own personal experiences as an Asian-Canadian, I can see where Sav is coming from. Honestly, I would have liked to see Sav struggle more with Alli's 'extra-curriculars', but the writers might have just implied his 'inner conflict' with her by way of yelling at her like he did recently.

I don't know if anyone else can vouch for strict, asian families, but there's TONS of issues, specifically socio-cultural issues. We want to please our parents (which I could launch into a whole essay about), but we also want to fit in with our peers. I think Sav has that problem, and has his parents constantly on his back too. I think when he yells at Alli he's being frustrated about all the pressure there is on BOTH of them set out by their parents. Like, whenever she screws up (or seems to screw up in their parents' eyes) there's going to be negativity around them, which isn't a great place to be in your head or physically at home.

Bottom line: he's feeling the burden of being a big brother, and seeing your sister one way and having your parents see her in another will make any big brother have SOME pressures. I'm not saying Sav was totally in the right, but I understand his frustration.

Holland Fan Forever

Sav's never the one that's shown as busy with the hectic schedule it's Holly J and Holly J alone. Sav seems to need someone on screen with him to do anything. I think that there is really no drama or surpises with Alli and Sav and their family, it's really basically all about Alli all the time and until Alli went missing Sav was never affected in any way by her actions and so it made no sense for him to say Alli made his life hell when in reality her choices affected her alone and not him.

I think that Sav came across as if bringing Holly J flowers and giving her a forehead kiss was in some handbook on how to be a good boyfriend and I'm sorry that was cheesy and awkward. I think that once again Sav is in the role of boyfriend and that it's really just another "relationship" storyline for him and we've seen Sav as a boyfriend before and he's one demensional and awkward. I think that it has to be awkward for Ray the actor to see all of these younger kids get actual storylines with character development when all he gets are relationship storylines that have both been put on the back burner. The dialogue between Holly J and Sav is cringe worthy to me and when they do actually speak to each other given all of Holly J's acreen time isn't much the discussion is either or awkward or it goes nowhere or both. We never see Holly J go out of the way to spend time with Sav and I wouldn't describe what little we see of them as "fun."

I think that the writers and TPTB go out of the way in not dealing with Holly J and Sav's relationship and I thought it was ironic that the one time that Holly J could've actually been there for Sav she has this illness and so she's off alone without him again. I knew right away that whatever illness wouldn't be serious or really dealt with and it just came across as the writers saying "It's time to give Charlotte another dramatic storyline" but let's be honest she's had better dramatic storylines even this season. This show has done some good, dramatic "illness" storylines but this wasn't one of them in part because it came across as rushed from the start and there was no mention of her connection to the Coynes or people like Jane or Spinner and so I just couldn't take that storyline seriously because of how ir was written and I am sure that wasn't the original intent but that storyline could've been a lot better with some minor changes. I would've liked to have seen Holly J be gone for a little longer but realistically that was never going to happen because she's one of the few characters who actually currently gets screen time and character development.

I think Sav has been put in an awkward position in that he has to put up with whatever Holly J does because he really has no other storylines outside of the one with Holly J and so this has never been a question of him wanting or deciding to do something Sav is left with no choice because otherwise he is really left with nothing to do.

I don't think Sav and Holly J do much of anything good or bad in their relationship and whenever there could be an issue or some kind of drama it's either ignored completely or swept under the rug. A good time to write for them to be written for would've been while Fitz, Bianca, Drew, Zane and Riley weren't on-screen much earlier this season but we saw a lot of Holly J without Sav and to me that said a lot. If Sav can't get screen time while dating Holly J then he's not going to be getting much screen time period. In order to get people to root for a couple it would help if Sav and Holly J actually dealt with an issue in a serious manner and they have zero obstacles and this isn't even going into their complete lack of chemistry and there is nothing charming or endearing about Holly J and Sav's relationship.

I think Sav needed to work on getting a life and interests of his own without a girlfriend but that is never going to happen as long as he's dating someone and especially Holly J because it's too easy for her to get away from him and it's also too easy for the writers and TPTB to make whatever happens to be all about Holly J and that has been exactly what happened. I think Holly J speaks harshly about Sav and their relationship without even thinking about it twice and that doesn't make me think of them as a charming or endearing couple. When I watch this show I want to see Holly J not the writers watering down her character but she isn't allowed to be intelligent, ambitious and pushy because Sav cannot deal with that part of her personality and so it has to be watered down in order for Sav to deal with her.

I am surprised that Sav/Ray is still on the show in capacity because TPTB don't really write for him and when he is on acreen it's always all about someone else and never him alone and I don't forsee that improving. There are some good current and former opposites attracts couples like EClare, Fiona and Adam and Semma and I would say that their scenes aren't awkward and the dialogue doesn't make these mentioned couples look cheesy and that the dialogue actually gets the story moving in some direction. There is no direction with Holly J and Sav and no, I don't blame the other kids there now for the fact that Sav was really given no real character development or storylines in over three years because no matter who he dated we would see the same issues and it seems that in the eyes of the writers that Sav and Anya just aren't important unless they are dating or trying to date someone.

Kwinks

Awesome!

Oh, I get that. It just seems that most of Sav's issues with his parents (when we get to see them) usually don't seem to have much to do with Alli. Perhaps my problem is simply that they didn't really show Sav's parents taking out their frustrations with Alli on him. Because then I could see how Alli's behavior was affecting him and how it would make him upset with her. Certainly fighting in families causes tension and makes things uncomfortable, but as long as my parents weren't treating me like crud because of something stupid my sibling had done, then I don't think I'd take it out on them. Their behavior would have to have a really negative effect on me as well before I took it out on them, you know? But I get what you're saying.

I just felt as though the "you made my life a living hell" line was over the top. I get that Alli may have acted selfishly, but I still don't buy that she made his life a "living hell". By saying that, it was almost like he was insinuating that everything that went wrong in his life was her fault. Certainly she may have made things a little more difficult for him. I could believe that, but acting like her behavior had completely ruined his life? However, to be fair, it was something that he said in a moment of anger (and I could understand why he was irritated with her at the time), and sometimes people don't mean the things they say when they're upset. Luckily, he redeemed himself by being a good brother in the next episode. I like Sav in general. It was just this scene that displeased me.

I agree with this. I don't feel as though Holly J and Sav have to spend every minute together to be in a meaningful relationship. That's something that I don't quite have a problem with in their relationship. Although, if they were on screen a little more together, it would give them more chance for development as a couple.