regiusachan

Holland Fan Forever: But I'm pointing out the facts - Declan AND Sav have literally no personality/back-story. Okay - here's this rich guy who has a politician dad/famous mom in NYC, an alcoholic twin sister who got beaten by her ex-boyfriend, and he wants to go to Harvard/Yale/something. Then there's this Muslim guy - who has bitchy parents, but they love him in their own way, has a bitchy irresponsible sister (most of the time), has crappy luck when it comes to girls, is too nice (to the point that Jenna thought Sav was attracted to her), wants to be a musician (but lacks the skills/sucks ass).

Fiona has more personality than her twin brother. Same with Holly J having more development than Sav or Declan. So, basically, I'm saying - HOLLIONA FOREVA. The whole grand image of Declan was shattered with LL. So, if they bring him back, there's no way of knowing where they'd go. Maybe they're going to actually give him some background, instead of this whole 'rich guy, gets any girl, no big deal! '. It's BORING. The only reason it wasn't when he was on the show - was largely because of the chemistry Landon and Charlotte had. He can act, but he has a crappy backstory. Ray...uh, is still struggling with acting, but we've seen it in his scenes with his on-screen father and Sav has a crappy backstory. He's not as professional as Landon, and yet he has the same problem as Landon's character, Declan. Ray and Landon have little to no backstory to help us understand WHO they truly are.

And it doesn't help Declan's character develop if Landon's off doing some other damn show/movie. And I doubt they'd develop Sav's character this late, or if they are trying, they're not helping themselves/only shooting themselves in the foot.

With that said, I see why they're setting up Fiona and Holly J. They're more developed than their counterparts (?). I mean, in terms of siblings, Fiona's more developed than her brother, Declan. In terms of a couple/ship, Holly J is way more developed than Sav is or ever will be (especially with the Seniors graduating in Season 11). So, you set up two people who are most developed? Genius!

And like I said before, the reason Declan's story didn't come across as nearly boring as it probably should have - on paper, at least - is because Landon and Charlotte had really great chemistry in their scenes. Had Landon and Charlotte's chemistry been forced? The storyline would have failed. So, I guess that's what you mean by Charlotte and Ray's chemistry is weird/wonky/whatever.

necklace

I have to agree that we know very little about both characters, but I guess what Holland Fan Forever was trying to say is that Declan had a lot more potential than Sav, which I'm inclined to agree with. Sav been on the show since season 7 and I'm pretty sure that even episodes about Sanya were usually from Anya's pov. I think that writers had a plan to devlop Sav's character this season but ran out of ideas as to what to do with him so they paired him up with Holly J And although I would never claim that Declan got more character development than Sav I do think that the writers wouldn't have much trouble with figuring out what sort of storyline to give him. Especially if we take into consideration Landon's awesome acting skills. Still he is off the show so the potential his character presented is definitely ruined.

I think we're getting off topic here.

I wonder if Holly J will be there for Sav in the next episode. They are supposed to be srious now, right? I wanted Sav to have an individual storyline but there are some situation where the girlfriend should be involved. I think it would say a lot about the couple if Holly J isn't there.

Kwinks

They're a "serious" couple now? When did that happen? Did they ever make this official on-screen? Dude, I don't get this relationship!

I agree with this.

DollyJfan4life

Landon and Charlotte had tons of chemistry. I think their chemistry really shined through in that last scene in LL part 2.

Do you all think we should add this reason to the list?

Because even Charlotte knows the chemistry isn't quite there yet.

This comes from the vid where Charlotte was asked who she would choose between Declan and Sav.

regiusachan

Here's a present from The Rivals to The Hedonists. ENJOY. Possible fall-down of Sav/Holly J, but possible start of Fiona/Holly J? MAYBE. I hope.

Kwinks

God, I wish they would just end this relationship.

I mean, honestly, they don't even get much screen time as it is, and I'm still sick of them anyway. If that doesn't say something...

Please tell me that they've realized what a waste of time this ship is. Please. I don't want to have to watch them on-screen together during In Too Deep.

Holland Fan Forever

I think that there was certainly potential to give Declan more storylines but TPTB gave up on Sav and any real storylines for him because let's face if TPTB wanted to give Sav a real storyline that was actually about him that it would've been done well before he was on the show over three years. Charlotte and Ray have the chemistry of a brother and sister and I know that they are friends in real life and that's how they should've stayed on the show if they weren't going to bother to let them do anything productive while all of the other characters and their relationships got actual development and screen time. Charlotte and Landon have great chemistry and TPTB didn't have to write them either awkwardly or out-of-character for them to work, it is just natural.

I think that even if Declan isn't with Holly J that there would definitely be more storylines for him and there would not be this big question of what to do with Declan and that TPTB would actually write for him and I cannot say that any of this would be done with Sav because they have never cared enough to do much with him and Declan being there on a more regular basis would've really put Sav on the back burner as if he's not there now. I think that Fiona is developed and given storylines because she's there on a regular basis, I don't think Fiona would be getting much character development either if she were in the same position as Declan is at the moment. Charlotte and Landon are both strong actors who to me are the best actors on this show right now but, instead of capitilizing on that we get this watered down storyline that has been written awkwardly to say the least from the start. I also think that Sav/Ray seems to get the most awkward dialogue which certainly is not helping this storyline that's already forced enough as it is. I wonder if Sav isn't with Holly J what purpose does he have on screen period other than being Alli's brother? I don't think that Declan would ever have been treated as bady as Sav is regardless of the situation.

regiusachan

Holly J takes over anyone's story, lol. Even Declan. That's why he's blank - just like Sav. Same with Eli and Clare. Until those two break-up, there will be little to no story for Eli's character. Declan is pretty, Eli is pretty, Sav is just meh or cute. Declan, eh, yeah, he can act, but that doesn't tell whether or not they'd waste their time writing for him. Sav ...is getting there, like I said, so, of course, the chemistry is wonky. And maybe it's because I'm into incest (SAV/ALLI FTW), but damn, the fact you compared Holly J and Sav to being brother and sister? Holy crap, I'm freakin' sold!
Eli is the best actor they currently have (He could make a convincing rapist! And I still would love for Landon and Munro to be gay lovers in some soap opera or Law & Order: SVU), along with Holly J and Fiona. Just Holly J's been on there longer than even Fiona, so, of course, she'd come out on top.

So, pretty or not, I don't think the writers care for any of the main dudes in the relationships that clearly just revolve around their girlfriends. Declan-Holly J, Eli-Clare, Sav-Holly J, KC-Jenna. The writers don't give a damn about the fans. Just go watch the past seasons of Emma/Sean...lol. Then they broke them up, had Emma with Kelly, then had them break up, then, you know, she ended up in bed with Spinner/wedded Spinner.
The writers love trolling the hell out of us cause they know we're dumb enough to continue watching, no matter how retarded they end up making the series. Just true facts. Yes, I am dumb and retarded. Of course they'd pair Sav with Holly J, though it was already hinted in the 'music video promo' - why Declan wasn't there. They love pissing off people that they don't care about, because it keeps people watching in morbid curiosity.

They're watching fans freak out and going, "LOLOL U MAD?" -trollface- But especially us (me) Eclare fans, they love to watch us lose our **** over little things. I wouldn't stop watching if they broke up or if they break up, cause I get to see Eli's true acting potential once he's no longer with Clare.

Anyway, looks like Holly J is leaving Sav for Fiona. She's all like, plain faced or whatever and saying, "I'm being honest." or some crap. SHE'S CLEARLY TALKING ABOUT FIONA. My heart is gonna give out, lol. I'm excited!

Kwinks

Well, the difference is that Eli actually has an excuse. I don't want to judge him quite yet. I mean, he's only been on the show for one season, whereas the girl he's with (Clare, obviously XD) has been on it for three, and it's about time that she was given a serious plotline, which is why I think Clare is given priority over her boyfriend for the writers. I feel like Sav should have been given something to do by now, because he's been on Degrassi since season what? Seven, right?

I've stated before that most of the male characters on Degrassi are really only ever used as accessories if they're in a relationship.

Eli has gotten storylines, with his hoarding and his dead girlfriend and his rivalry with Fitz. They just haven't quite done that much with them yet. But I think that's going to change with Drop the World. There's still time for him. I think part of it is the writers just trying to keep him "mysterious".

And he has a lot more potential than some of the other guys too, because we've already seen different sides to his character, which is why Sav bores me and Eli doesn't. I feel like Sav not only never does much, but he also doesn't seem to have any other sides to his personality. He's pretty one-dimensional.

But yes, I see what you're saying. Eli could use more development, but really, all of the new characters could.

I really hope they don't make Eli a rapist.

I agree. The writers really have no respect for any of us. ...

In any case, you're right. Munro is a really great actor. He's excellent with emotional scenes. As a matter of fact, I think those are his best moments. And that's the opposite for a lot of the other actors. Charlotte is really impressive as well.

In my opinion, the worst actors are Argiris, Alicia, and Jessica. But that's just me. They're not completely horrible, but I just don't think they're the strongest.

Holland Fan Forever

I think that most people know by now that there is no pay off in the end with a couple on this show with very few exceptions. I think that at least with Holly J and Declan that they actually gave them a plausible build up and that Holly J reinforces everything that is wrong with Sav and they've been on the show the same amount of time and he still literally does nothing and at least with Declan I think if he were there that he would be written for and he wouldn't have to be with Holly J in order for me to pay attention to him. Sav has to be with Holly J or Alli in order to get any attention because it's never about him alone.

The difference between Sav and Declan is that Declan wasn't just thrown in the background and ignored for over three years and there are at least potential storylines with Declan where it could be about Declan alone. It will never, ever be about Sav alone and it showed when TPTB decided to make that arraigned marriage storyline about Anya instead of Sav. For someone who isn't there much Declan sure was in a lot of promos and people were actually talking about him love him or hate him and TPTB I am sure loved that and I know that Holly J and Declan together and separately can bring in ratings or attention, but, it's not that way with Sav who they'd rather ignore rather than have us learn anything about him alone and they would rather just leave him bland and blank. I do think more would've been done with Declan had Landon been more available and I don't think he would on the backburner like Sav is. I think Sav/Ray's time is really being wasted here and why in the world he's still there and wants to be there, I don't know because he's really underused and I think he has to stay with Holly J in order to get any real screen time. I don't think Landon/Declan's time and talent would be wasted like Sav's is and I wouldn't watch and wonder why he's still on the show like I do with Sav. Thanks for helping us with our thread. All couples are ruined on this show at some point with very few exceptions including the ones right now.

regiusachan

But I only just said I was excited about Fiona/Holly J. It won't last, but hey, make-outs/sexy times. That may be why Holly J is breaking up with Sav. Lol.
They need to have one happy gay couple, and if I had my way, it'd be Holliona. But they'd not be living in the Coyne's mansion/penthouse/whatever it is. They'd be somewhere else in a wide-open area, with lots of mountains and stuff. Nature and all. Fiona and Holly J would get hitched somewhere. Have a small wedding. Rotfl. I'm getting way ahead of myself.

TPTB can suck donkey penis. They aren't all that. We know who is...that's right, Stefan Stohn and that guy who plays Snake.

Holland Fan Forever

The relationship with Holly J stopped the very little character development that Sav had going for him this season and I don't think Holly J completely stopped Declan's character development like she has Sav's. I also think that a great actor can do a lot with whatever storyline that they are given and both Charlotte and Landon have that ability but Ray just doesn't but, he was never really even given a chance to do anything outside of a boring relationship storyline which brings out and reinforces Sav's worst qualities. I don't blame the new kids this season or anyone else for that matter for Sav's lack of character development because I find it hard to blame someone for something if they weren't even on the show when something either happened or didn't happen and let's be honest TPTB and the writers were never all that interested or concerned with Sav and his storylines one or another because if they were Sav would've gotten more storylines and screen time before now, but he hasn't. Anya is in the same boat that Sav even after they've broken up in my opinion.

This show doesn't usually write for happy couples and they certainly aren't going to write for a couple where they have no real issues or drama and the writers and TPTB have really swept any real drama that there could be with Holly J and Sav under the rug and when that's Sav's only real storyline that leaves him without much to do. Holly J has and will have more opportunities other than just this forced, awkwardly written storyline and so she isn't negatively affected as much. I think that Craig was the one who really took over any storyline and any relationship he was or tried to be in much more so than Holly J has ever done and I never found him to be as interesting as the writers and TPTB wanted him to be but, like Declan, a Craig appearance equals ratings and attention which is what TPTB want.

necklace

That's true. Even though, I think that Declan didn't progress as a character when he was in relationship with Holly J, I wouldn't go as far to say that he was completely overshadowed by her. I think that the fact that Landon is such a strong actor had plenty to do with that. To be honest, I think that their relationship didn't provide any character growth for either one of the characters. They didn't progress. Still that relationship didn't cause Holly J to act completely out of character like it unfortunately happens with Sav. I'm not a fan of Dolly J and there are many things I really dislike about it but honestly I think that season 9 Dolly J makes a lot better couple than Savvy J ever could. Because not only Sav is being completely overshadowed (while Declan managed to get an equal amount of screen time with Holly J in season 9) but it is also causing a regress in Holly J's character. If I were honest, almost every scene with Holly J/Sav this season made me believe that the girl on the screen wasn't Holly J. It felt more like Charlotte was playing herself to make it work. Holly J feels a lot more like Holly J when she has scenes with Anya and Fiona. Even when she's being nice and caring you can still feel that edge about her. She looses it with Sav. She turns into this pile of mush around him. There are disgustingly sweet smiles, corny lines and complete lack of sarcasm. Of course one could argue that she has such strong feelings about Sav but even if that was the case now, she definitely didn't have them when they first started hanging out. And we all know that she never acted like a pathetic schoolgirls with Blue, Spinner or Declan. But then again they have to make her act that way, because Sav never approved of her bitchy side and if she displayed even a glimpse of it in front of him it would be like Blue all over again.

Holland Fan Forever

I think that the relationship with Holly J showed that both Holly J and Declan could share and that Declan was the first person Holly J dated who was intimidated by her strong personality and ambitions and she even told him if he couldn't accept that she wouldn't date him, Declan loved and encouraged her ambition and we know Sav couldn't deal with that and Blue tried to change her. I cannot support a ship where one person has to be written completely out-of-character just to try and make the relationship work and it is failing big time to me and the dialogue certainly isn't helping anything but, I think it's worse with Sav.

I also think that Declan was never treated like his feelings don't and won't ever matter but, that's how Sav is treated and I think that Declan wasn't overshadowed by Holly J and that TPTB wasn't trying desperately to figure out what to do with him and they are still after three years struggling to figure out what to do with Sav. I think that Charlotte and Landon are strong actors who wouldn't have to do much to completely overshdow Sav/Ray and TPTB has shown that they can and will actually write for them which makes them a much better couple than Savvy could ever be because I think that this storyline was done to give Sav more to do more than anything else but that still hasn't happened. Sav needs Holly J in order to have a chance at any real storyline and I don't feel that was ever the case with Declan because Landon is a strong actor who could've easily had his own storyline without Holly J and Anya also needs Holly J in order to have a real storyline as well. The fact that Holly J still gets all of this screen time without Sav when it could've been about their relationship says a lot and it suggests to me that someone who's part of TPTB doesn't like this couple all that much and more specifically Sav because he has very little to do without this storyline.

regiusachan

Both have blank personalities. Declan AND Sav. So, basically, Holly J would be better off without either one. More Holly J for Fiona! HBIC-ship, hell yes. I don't think they care about Declan, either, lol, so maybe Declan should become gay and put out for Sav, though, you know, Declan could just forever be a bachelor and screw as many mistresses as he wants, cause, it's all about the Benjamins, baby.
TPTB TPTB TPTB = Jesus. Jesus hates Declan and Sav. And anyone with Sav or Declan, unless it's Fiona with Declan. Holly J and Fiona both have development, while Declan and Sav do not. Agreed? So it's not just 'lol I hate Declan and Holly J' cause no, I used to love the crap out of them. I guess it was wish fulfillment. You know, every girl dreams of marrying a rich dude and not having to work, except me. I want a normal guy, doesn't have to be rich or anything, just normal. Is that too much to ask? I GUESS SO. I wouldn't go from Declan to Sav, but that's just my bias. ...I'd go from Declan to...someone who reminds me of my boyfriend (Eli, minus the homicidal/sociopath-like qualities. My boyfriend isn't like that at all).

Holly J probably feels more like she needs to be brought back down to earth, so, she clung to Sav for that (he was the only other person there that she actually knew that still goes to her school and is in her grade - her choice was him or FOREVER ALONE). She realized, "Hey, I can't really get anything done and I'll be damned if I'm a trophy wife! Sure, he's pretty and he's rich, but gawd, I want to make my own money and go buy my own crap without his help. ...Look at his chest. Uh, yeah, I need to go find a job and pay my own way through college. I'm too sexy for keeping in the house, even if I'll have enough income to buy as many clothes and shoes as I want! DECISIONS, DECISIONS!"

Now she's probably thinking, "I can't marry Sav. His parents hate non-Muslims and I already screwed up my opportunity to show them I'm a good girl - since their son and I were busted nearly having sex during a school lock-down, el oh el! They think I'm a common whore! I'm sexy as hell, yeah, more sexy than Sav. Time to leave this boring son-of-a-bitch! SEE YA, SAV! I'm going gay for the alky-twin, then boarding a train to the Hills and setting up camp to live off the land like a normal person"

Like I pointed out ABOVE, Savvy J is probably breaking up for Holliona. So, like, get out the party hats! It's time to celebrate. This is an anti-Savvy J thread, is it not? I'd have expected more hoots and hollers than the lackluster response/almost non-response to the news that Holly J is leaving Sav. Uh, yeah, the point of this thread is for people to rant about the abortion known as Savvy J...and yet, no "hell YEAH!" is coming from y'all? Y'all confuse me. I was expecting more of an elated bunch.

Choosing between Savvy J and Holliona - HOLLIONA, hell yeah. Plus, sexy kissing/groping. Declan and Holly J dating makes me believe Holly J likes girls even moreso. Declan looks like a chick (not hating, I love dudes that look like girls, they're sexy - That is totes my boyfriend, too). Sav would have come across as a chick had he kept his long hair.

If Fiona and Holly J can both get jobs and not have to resort to going to Fifi's large-ass bank account, I'll be satisfied. If not, I'll be severely disappointed. I am not even asking for a end-all-be-all storyline, just one that people can actually relate to.
HOW MANY OF Y'ALL EVER BEEN WITH (not slept with, but an actual relationship) A RICH SON OF A DIPLOMAT/MUSLIM GUY WHO ..uh, nevermind, yeah, Sav is boring.

Declan would be banging whether poor or not. JUST SAYING.