Benjamin McKenzie - OT #34: Because if you fell asleep at the dentist, bring a camera!

**swedish_girl80** · 08-23-2009, 07:41 AM

New OT and as we all know that I´m not so good with the titles so if anyone has a good one please tell me or Michal

From the last thread!

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Originally Posted by LoveBEN (View Post)

Hey everyone

Did any of you guys ever watched "Sex and the City" (the TV show). I just watched the movie.

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Originally Posted by LoveBEN (View Post)

Me and TC were taking at the Ryan and Seth thread and were getting a bit OT, so I'm moving our discussion here:

I have no idea about this organization (I will have to look it up and read about it) but that doesn’t sound like something that is anti-Christian to me In the US there is a separation between church and State so this is probably why they didn’t like her making her Valedictorian speech so religious imo.

But taking that girl's high school diploma is a bit harsh!

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Originally Posted by tc_mahfood (View Post)

Make sure you look up unbiased information and only go based off of facts. That girl did absolutely NOTHING wrong. I saw her speech! I would have given a similar speech if I were Valedictorian. All she did was state that without Jesus in her life, she couldn't have come so far. That is HER testimony! She graduated number 1 in her class! She gave the glory to God... she has that right to express it. It insulted NOBODY. A little bit harsh you say? That is VERY harsh. In America they say we have freedom of speech, but that is not true because even though the constitution grants us that right, not everyone is treated fairly--especially Christians and Muslims. In America, it's okay for somebody to talk about evolution in school and about how we evolved from apes, but to say that there is a Creator is looked down upon and even punishable. Separation of Church and State is taken WAAAAAY out of context by people of authority who are for taking God out of school. The truth is that when Thomas Jefferson mentioned separation of church and state, he meant it as a way to PROTECT THE CHURCH from the state and not the other way around! He wrote a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association mentioning that there should be a wall dividing the church and the state to protect Christians who were being persecuted by the state for practicing their beliefs! Over the years, people in special interest groups such as the ACLU have twisted his message and used it against Christians. They succeeded in taking the 10 Commandments out of school and they made it punishable to mention God or a Creator in the public school system. They are even trying to take "In God We Trust" off of the US dollar. The truth is America was founded on the gospel of Jesus Christ by strong Christian men such as George Washington, John Adams, etc. Event though Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian, he was a Deist and a highly religious man who believed in a Creator, and he believed the Bible and another Christian book (a hymnal) should be part of every public school system. When these things were taken out of the school system, we watched many of our public schools turn into violent places of crime. About 50 years ago, some of the worst reported problems in school were things like chewing gum and bringing food when it wasn't aloud. Today there is gun violence and hate crimes. For example, my father was a school teacher in Brooklyn, NY in the late 80s and he quit after a teacher got shot by a student in the hallway and another teacher's hair got set on fire. They say that it is imposing for a Christian to talk about God in school, yet I am one of the most tolerant people you can find! I respect ALL religions... I have friends who are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Jewish, etc. and I learn about their religions and there are common things they share with Christianity. There is nothing harmful about sharing ones testimony. It is VERY hypocritical of anyone to say that a Christian doesn't have the right to state their beliefs in a classroom setting, but everybody else can. For years I sat in a classroom learning macro-evolution in biology class, which I DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN! I DID NOT EVOLVE FROM AN APE OR A TAD POLE!!!!!! Yet it was "Okay" for many of my teachers and professors to bash anybody who believed in a Creator and call people who believe in God stupid. How do you think that made me feel when they would insult my faith right there in a classroom setting and yet I could do nothing about it?! That's just not right.

Sorry that was so long, but I am VERY passionate about this. It is all my opinion of course, but after doing the research and having these experiences, I have come to my conclusions.

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Originally Posted by Ryan-Marissa<3 (View Post)

I am such a BIG fan and I've only seen "My Fair Lady" and "Charade".

How does that work?! I will absolutely see all her movies eventually though! That's for sure! And My Fair Lady Is LOVE! I absolutely it tons. And awh, Thank you! And well my hair is dirty blonde but I've gone a lot blonder over summer! It fits me more, Gives me that california surfer girl look and I've missed it so much because for the past year and a half I've had dark hair! It was a big step to take going back to my roots but I did and I was so glad, Right after Grad of course! And awh thank you!

That's very cool he's a photographer, It's something I'm interested in pursuing as a career! And that's very cool you were a model. I wish I could be one. You see I have the Body, But not the height. It's so unfair. and awh, The candid picture is super pretty! And sounds good.

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Originally Posted by tc_mahfood (View Post)

Awww... well the summer California surfer girl is always a cute look! Ahhh, you want to be a photographer huh? Are you going to an art institute? Modeling is overrated... trust me. I had a VERY bad personal experience doing it (a painful one). And you don't need to be tall. I'm only 5'4.5". I was a print model.

And thanks for the compliment hun!

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Originally Posted by Ryan-Marissa<3 (View Post)

Yes, I really do! That or get into Journalism.

Next year when I head back to school finally, Thats one of the courses in college I want to do, Absolutely! And well I was going to go to an Art Institute on the West Coast of Canada But I am sadly without my license and moving all the way there would be hectic, I know I will eventually! but not right now. And really?! I guess that's true though! And like what they ask of you to do - Like loosing 10 pounds. Come on people! We are thin enough, Don't make us look like "The Machinist" Ever see that film?! That's what I am relating that too. Christian bale. He's a crazy!. And what?! Really?! I am the same height too! OH WELL. I don't need to be one!

Has anyone here read "The Time Traveler's Wife" , I saw the movie last sunday and I am reading the book now! It's so wonderful, Like it's a different type of love story! Absolutely amazing. Eric Bana is so HOT and amazing as Henry, It's just

**LoveBEN** · 08-23-2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks for the new thread Hanna

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Originally Posted by Ryan-Marissa<3 (View Post)

Has anyone here read "The Time Traveler's Wife" , I saw the movie last sunday and I am reading the book now! It's so wonderful, Like it's a different type of love story! Absolutely amazing. Eric Bana is so HOT and amazing as Henry, It's just

I read the book. The ending made me cry and cry and cry! *sigh* but it's an awesome book and I agree that its a different type of love story

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Originally Posted by tc_mahfood (View Post)

All she did was state that without Jesus in her life, she couldn't have come so far. That is HER testimony! She graduated number 1 in her class! She gave the glory to God... she has that right to express it. It insulted NOBODY

I can see that you're very passionate about this, and I can see where you're coming from but I can also see their side in this situation.

From what I understand, the "ACLU" does not appose of her believing in God, they just don’t want her to talk about her faith in a place they feel should be clear of any religious references (Christian or otherwise).

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In America they say we have freedom of speech, but that is not true because they don't treat Christians fairly in that way. It's okay for somebody to talk about evolution in school and about how we evolved from apes, but to say that there is a Creator is looked down upon and even punishable.

Again, I don’t think they are anti-Christian. If anything, they are anti-religion, any religion! They think religion has no place in schools.

The evolution theory in being taught as what it is; a theory! A scientific theory DOES belong in schools. This in not taught as being the absolute troth, you can believe it or not. If you believe that God created us, that is fine, but this is not a scientific theory, it’s a religious belief and it has no place in school.

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Separation of Church and State is taken WAAAAAY out of context by people of authority who are for taking God out of school. The truth is that when Thomas Jefferson mentioned separation of church and state, he meant it as a way to PROTECT THE CHURCH from the state and not the other way around! He wrote a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association mentioning that there should be a wall dividing the church and the state to protect Christians who were being persecuted by the state for practicing their beliefs!

I disagree with you that the Separation of Church and State is taken out of context in the US. This is how a separation of state and church works in other places in the world that practice this separation. Like most countries in Europe for example; you won't find religious symbols or a reference to God in schools or on money bills etc.

Even if the separation of church and state was originally created to protect the church from the state, that doesn’t mean that it can't work the other way around. Things have changed since the days of Thomas Jefferson, people in America are no longer persecute because of their faith, if anything I would say that religious people in American actually have a lot of power and a lot of influence and they are constantly trying to change the country and band the rules so it would apply to their religious beliefs (like the people that want to make abortions illegal) so in some cases, it is the state that needs to be protected from the church.

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Over the years, people in special interest groups such as the ACLU have fought to take the 10 Commandments out of school (in which they succeeded) and to take any mentioning of God or a Creator out of the public school system. They are even trying to take "In God We Trust" off of the US dollar.

Does taking the "In God We Trust" thing off the dollar bill change your faith? Does it make you less of a believer? Why are those symbols so important to you? You can see them in church or at home, you don’t have to see them in school to be a true believer.

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The truth is America was founded on the gospel of Jesus Christ by strong Christian men such as George Washington, John Adams, etc. Event though Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian, he was a Deist and a highly religious man who believed in a Creator, and he believed the Bible and another Christian book (a hymnal) should be part of every public school system.

Yeah, but that was what? 400 years ago? Things have changed, the world has changed. We; as a society, are less religious now, and this is not just in the US. A lot of countries in Europe were founded by people of faith and today most of those countries have a separation of State and Church.

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When these things were taken out of the school system, we watched many of our public schools turn into violent places of crime. About 50 years ago, some of the worst reported problems in school were things like chewing gum and bringing food when it wasn't aloud. Today there is gun violence and hate crimes. For example, my father was a school teacher in Brooklyn, NY in the late 80s and he quit after a teacher got shot by a student in the hallway and another teacher's hair got set on fire.

IMO the taking of religion and religious symbols out of schools is not what made them more violent. Poverty and drugs are what cause that and, in my opinion, the way to make those people life better is through education not religion (though, I'm not against them being religious, if this is what they want)

There are plenty of countries around the world that don’t have a State and Church separation and have a lot of violent in schools despite of it. Also a lot of times violent happens in the name if religion like people that blowing themselves up in the Middle East or people killing abortion doctors.

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They say that it is imposing for a Christian to talk about God in school, yet I am one of the most tolerant people you can find! I respect ALL religions... I have friends who are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, etc. and I learn about their religions and there are common things they share with Christianity. There is nothing harmful about sharing ones testimony.

Ok, I'm only asking this because I'm not an American and I'm not sure how some things work for you guys but the "not talking about God in school" thing. Does it apply only to Christens? Or does it include everyone from all faiths? If its only applies to Christens then I agree with you that it's not fair and not right.

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It is VERY hypocritical of anyone to say that a Christian doesn't have the write to state their beliefs but everybody else can.

I don’t think this is what they're saying. From what I can tell they believe that no-one (Christen, Muslim, Jewish etc) can state their belief in public schools because those schools belong to the state and there should be no mentioning of religion in State run institutions.

I don’t know if you know that but both Jews and Muslims also believe in The Ten Commandments, so removing those symbols from schools is not something that is done to Christens only, those symbols are important to people from other religions too.

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For years I sat in a classroom learning macro-evolution in biology class, which I DO NOT BELIEVE IN! Yet it was "Okay" that many of my teachers and professors would bash anybody who believed in a Creator and call people who believe in God stupid. That's just not right.

I agree that it is not nice to call people stupid because of what they believe in.

Ryan-Marissa<3 · 08-23-2009, 05:58 PM

Thank you for the new thread.

tc_mahfood · 08-23-2009, 06:17 PM

Hi Kay darling!

And hey Michal,

Note in advance: *My comments are not intended to offend anybody at all.*

Hey Michal, is it okay if we take our entire conversation on this to PM? I feel kind of uncomfortable having some of my political views on the internet like this, especially about religion (these are VERY controversial topics as you know). Also, my name and pictures are in this thread so it just makes me feel uncomfortable discussing such a serious topic and knowing that somebody can track it down and take my words out of context and look me up (I may seem a little paranoid, but I have heard plenty of stories about stalkers and hackers and they really freak me out).

Thanks!

goodperson · 08-24-2009, 05:07 AM

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Originally Posted by LoveBEN (View Post)

Ok, I'm only asking this because I'm not an American

michal where are you from?

and i'm curious about whether Evolution is being taught in religious school's biology class or not? no offense although i'm from the country which has the most huge non-religious population, i stll have no blind faith in Evolution or Science, because the science is not perfect to explain everything of The Universe.

i'd like to watch "The Time Traveler's Wife" movie as well. i'm not a romance movie fan but eric bana and rachel mcadams are awesome. and MR bana is hot! hee.

BTW i have a question to ask michal and hanna. i love to do fanfics and certainly i have some ideas about the oc . but my english sucks badly, so i wanna write out the summary with some comic fanarts which to supply my lame english writing. would you guys like to watch that and where could i post that? of course the story centers on our great ryan atwood.

tc_mahfood · 08-24-2009, 05:58 AM

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Originally Posted by goodperson (View Post)

and i'm curious about whether Evolution is being taught in religious school's biology class or not?

From my experiences going to school in the US they teach Evolution as if it is fact rather than theory and they ridicule anyone who believes in Intelligent Design or a Creator (which I do) even though that is just as valid of a theory (with MUCH BETTER SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT in my opinion after studying this stuff and doing the scientific research for myself). You can't even question Evolution in US schools. From my experience, some teachers/professors preach atheism/Darwinism/Humanism to some degree as well. They ridicule those who believe in a god or higher being and state Darwinian and Humanistic theory as if it is the only correct "scientific" mind set to have. It's not about being "anti-Christian"... they are "Anti-God" in general in many US public institutions. You don't need to be a Christian, Muslim, or a Jew to believe in a god or Creator. Many people who unbiasedly evaluate all the scientific evidence against macro-evolutionary theory--if they are reasonable-- come to similar conclusions as those who believe in 'Intelligent Design' theory (even people who are not religious at all). The problem is that most people of higher authority in educational institutions in the US ARE biased, and even when they see holes in their theory and evidence supporting another, they ignore it and instead play the name calling game. I never preach Christianity to people, and I'm as tolerant as they come when it comes to accepting and respecting various religions and cultures (I'm multi-ethnic as well so that helps a lot too with my motivation). When somebody wants to have a serious conversation with me about Evolution vs. Intelligent Design, I can do so SCIENTIFICALLY without even mentioning God or religion. They just show me the evidence "in support" of macro-evolution and I point out the flaws in their theory and show why it's not valid evidence and why it makes no sense scientifically... and I do this using the Socratic method.

Oh, and goodperson, I went to a private Christian school in middle school, and in biology class the answer is YES they did teach evolution AND Intelligent Design, and we got to choose for ourselves what we believed, which is the way it should be. My teacher in middle school taught it in a unbiased fashion as well. He first taught Evolution just the way they would teach it in a public school (and I know this since I've attended both types of schools) and even convinced me that it was true. Then in later weeks, he taught the Intelligent Design theory and pointed out possible flaws in both. He gave us resources and research articles from both sides to inquiry, and at the end of the course, I had come to the conclusion that macro-evolutionary theory makes no sense whatsoever and ON MY OWN merit without anybody shoving one theory down my face. MICRO-evolution on the other hand is TRUE, and the Bible as well as the Koran (which in all reality are like a huge history books) even support it. Natural selection and variation among species DOES indeed occur. One species evolving into another? There is not one drop of evidence to support that, and the evidence they give is so flawed and bogus that it's not even funny (some have in the past even been caught falsifying data to support their claims). I went to a public school for the rest of my education up to now (high school and college was public, and I be attending a public medical school next year more than likely) and it has been quite the contrary... VERY biased and VERY one-sided.

goodperson · 08-24-2009, 07:13 AM

thank you TC for your detailed response.

it's helpful for me. learning about life and thoughts of ppl all over the world is a wonderful thing. i have no idea what could you do if you was obliged to accept the opposite theory or view in public school. because the educational system of your country is so different from ours. (i just watched a great french movie Entre les murs and find the viewers of different countries have so diverse views about this Teacher-Student-Relationship movie.) but i think you can debate with teachers after class.

**LoveBEN** · 08-24-2009, 12:04 PM

TC – sure, if you're not comfortable talking about it here we'll do it via PM

goodperson – You can post your fics here: Ben/Ryan fan fiction thread

You can also try this LJ community: http://community.livejournal.com/theoc_fiction/

**swedish_girl80** · 08-24-2009, 12:20 PM

Oh fics love those

Hey guys

tc_mahfood · 08-24-2009, 12:23 PM

Hey Hanna!

Gotta go study now though.

Later y'all!

**LoveBEN** · 08-24-2009, 12:23 PM

Hey Hanna

How's everything?

**swedish_girl80** · 08-24-2009, 12:31 PM

Bye TC

Good luck with the studying

Michal--- I´m good, you?
I ate french fries from McDonalds today and it was yummy

**LoveBEN** · 08-24-2009, 12:34 PM

Oh, I forgot to say Hey to TC too. Sorry hun

McDonalds is EVIL!

I'm fine thanks

goodperson · 08-24-2009, 12:36 PM

thank u michal and hanna.

**swedish_girl80** · 08-24-2009, 12:38 PM

NP

Michal- they are but I was craving for something salty