AmeliaBeck

hotchad

so I couldn't resist. I read a little bit of what was going on in the episode. I think .. infact I know this episode is gonna make e cry .

can't wait to see what you guys thought .

& thanks for the new thread.

Paul1984

I really enjoyed the episode. Full of angst for LP, but also showing how happy they were before it all broke down. There's so much unresolved stuff going on there and you just know those issues are going to resurface.

I felt Lucas was maybe hasty with the proposal and Peyton was maybe quick to dismiss it. They both had valid reasons, but to me Lucas leaving and breaking it off was really taking it too far. Peyton still wanted to be with him, he claims she's the love of his life, so why leave her? Lucas still had a lot of growing up to do then. I think with the book, his speech in the proposal and all the stuff with Brooke too it showed the established theme for Lucas and also for the episode. The theme being that none of your dreams mean anything unless you can share them with the people you love.

The Lucas and Brooke scenes were good and you could see that while Brooke still pined in the past, she seems to have got over that now. She realised that Lucas's heart is with Peyton and maybe now she'll help them towards that. That's what the scene at the very end indicated to me anyway. She was very perceptive and she realised that Lucas regrets what happened with that proposal.

NH were good too in the short parts they played in the episode. Some cute moments and great to see them get physical again at the end. The seeds were sewn for Nathan's outburst that damaged his spine, but then he's always been a bit hotheaded.

The coaching stuff was great and seeing Whitey back. It also established why Lucas has a coaching role with the Ravens now. Nathan accepting his coaching was great to see too, even if bringing back the fadeaway thing was a little cheesy.

It was great to have no Mouth in the episode and for me less Lindsey. I don't hate her character, but I feel no emotion for any scene she is in at all. I feel like at times she is just a prop, especially in this episode.

I know some people have complaints with the episode being totally Lucas centric, but I felt like Lucas was hardly in the previous two episodes, so it wasn't really unwarranted. I really enjoyed him having so much screentime again. To me he's always the character that things centred around, the voice of the show who narrates the episodes at the start and end. Yes the episode was a heavy Lucas episode, but surely one every now and then isn't so bad.
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Manu9

because she loved him, but not enough to feel like what could have made her happier than anything was being with him. Something that instead Lucad felt for her



word. I actually would like to have more episodes like this. Lucas is the centre of this show and this show just isn't the same when he doesn't have enough space.



now my review to the episode, which I posted also on the OTH board but it's long and I don't feel like writing another review

I loved it, it's in my top five of OTH episodes. it was awesome and I think it pretty much defined where these characters are, what's the most important thing for each of them.

Lucas this was Lucas' episode and I loved that. 5.03 and 5.04 had very little Lucas and were kinda boring. The episodes that focus on this character are the best, in my opinion. I don't agree with the most of people. I don't think Lucas was acting childish or being immature. and I definitely don't think that his reaction was about his pride or Peyton's reply not suiting him. It wasn't about that. It was about realizing that what he wanted, what he needed, what was the most important thing in his life wasn't the same for Peyton. It came out pretty clear from this episode that the most important thing for Lucas is love and family. I felt it's not the same for Peyton. At least, not in that moment of their life. Even though I can't blame Peyton for not being ready, I can't blame Lucas either for being ready instead. He was willing to give up on everything for her, to be with her, while all of her speech was about realizing careers dreams. I felt like there was an hole in between Lucas and Peyton after the proposal. When they layed on the bed and she told him their dreams would come true, his dream to publish his novel and her dream to succeed in the music business, I definitely felt like this girl has understood nothing about Lucas. Publish his novel wasn't Lucas' biggest dream. Being with her, marrying her, having a family with her, was Lucas' biggest dream. I also found stupid and mean her comment about "how can we talk about forever if you can't give us an year". Sorry, but she was being really naive. There are people all around, in real life, that love each other so much but can't survive distance. An year could really make the difference in their relationship. I've seen something like that first hand, just around me, in real life. I think neither of them can really be blamed for the break up, I just feel like they were in different places for their life and they were searching for different things. Peyton needed to succeed in the music business to feel like a whole, while for Lucas his self-fulfilment is in love and family. I think that made a hole between them. People are saying that his reaction was over the top and he should have stayed to talk and work things out. But there was no way to work things out, not in that moment. They wanted, needed, different things in their lives. The only possible solution was that one of the two had to let go of their dream. Peyton should have agreed to marry him or Lucas should have agreed to wait. In either case, their relationship, at that point of their life, wouldn't have been the same and the one that would have given up to their dream would have resented the other. I also would like to point out that they had seen each other 3 times (!!) in one year. And that was the year following Lucas losing Keith and finding out his dad had killed him. and in that year, he had seen his girlfriend 3 times. I'm sorry, but I can't really hold against him that he wanted her beside him.
I really felt for him during the proposal and after. Peyton kept giving him her reasons, but he was just going to cry because to him all of her speech just meant she didn't love him enough. Who wouldn't have felt like that? He told her he would give up on everything for her, because nothing mattered without her. But she didn't feel the same. As I said, I can't blame her for not being ready to marry him. But I can't blame him either for wanting to marry her and being happy with her over everything else. I don't think that leaving her like that was bad on Lucas' part. I think she expected it, they knew it would have been like that. The end of their relationship wasn't in Lucas leaving the room. It was when she told him she felt like that conversation was "gonna end with" and he finished for her saying "goodbye". that was the end of their story. They slept together, but they were already broken up at that point and they both knew it.

I felt for Lucas throughout the entire episode. He won the championship and Peyton was not there, he got the news his book was gonna be published and Peyton was not there. He reserved a restaurant for them and she arrived in late. He waited for her in the hotel room and she was in terrible late. How could he really react in a different way than he did after she rejected his proposal? All he could have seen in that day was that he came after all the rest in her life.

I'm probably too romantic, but I felt so strong the difference between Haley and Peyton. Haley would sacrifice anything for the guy she loves and she has also done it, because Nathan comes first than anything else. It's not the same for Peyton. We all are different from each other, but personally, I'm more like Haley and Lucas.

It's clear that Lucas loved and still loved Peyton more than anything else and even though he has feelings for Lindsey, Peyton is his "one". But I can't help but feeling like he deserves better than Peyton. He deserves someone that loves him and puts him first like he does with her. I can't root for LP because I really feel like I want someone different for Lucas. But there is no doubt in my mind that Lucas loves Peyton more than anything else.

Brooke&Lucas I'm loving them this season. This is so different from the BL we got in the past and it's so refreshing and beautiful to see. I loved Lucas called Brooke to celebrate the book and I loved the way she took care of him that night.

I find a deep sadness in the fact Brooke loved Lucas so much and would have given up everything for him and Lucas loved so much Peyton and would have given up everything for her and Peyton just felt different. I guess that's life, we can't help who we love. Sometimes we fall in love with persons that just can't love us back in the same way. Sad.

Lucas&Haley how awesome was the night convo? I really loved it. "You're part of this family and you always will be". one of the best LH scenes.

Lucas&Nathan N I just love them and they should get more screentime together. it's family so it's the best

Whitey I loved to see Whitey again. He has always brought so much to this show. I guess we're not gonna see much of him in the future and it makes me sad. I love the way he has always taken care of Lucas and Nathan.

last comment for the performances: Chad amazed me. Nobody can take an entire episode on his shoulders like he does. He was amazing throughout the entire episode. He made me feel for Lucas and tear up for him in every single moment. Loved also Sophia performance. Best scene of the episode was the BL scene where he tells her he is lost without Peyton and she told him how to go on with his life. That was an awesome scene, perfectly portrayed by the actors.

Sunshine_03

FINALLY!! An episode filled with Lucas, Lucas Lucas

I loved how everything was about Lucas this eppy. It was nice to travel back, and see what actually happened between LP. I felt so bad for Lucas when he had just won the championship and had nobody to share it with. It was in that moment he knew he wanted Peyton with him for everything, and I can totally undertand why he purposed to her, even though he should have actually known her answer since she seemed to be more into her work than him

When he was told his book was going to be published, I teared up. It was awesome, you could truely see how happy he was, and then again how sad it was because it was a moment without the woman he loved.

I've been waiting for more coaching scenes Ive missed Whitey so it was really nice to see him. Amazing seeing Lucas standing on the sidelines and yelling and just really showing he cares.

I loved the BL scenes. Lucas and Brooke have the best friendship ever, I love how they can be themselves around one another, even after not seeing eachother for a while.
Just as Manu says, I loved the BL scene where Lucas clearly was vulnerable, and you could see how much he was hurting. My heart really went out to him. Something amazing had just happened to him, his dream had come true, but in the end it didn't matter, cause he was missing the most important thing
Brooke is truely a good friend, she helped him alot that night

To state the obvious, Lucas clearly still loves Peyton. I just hope, if he decides to do something about it, that she gives her all and let's Lucas have her and love her, and be the most important thing in her life. Peyton today, isn't the same person she was 3 years ago, so I'm really hoping LP will get back together and be the happiest they have ever been.

I feel sorry for Lindsay. Lucas is starting to pull away from her, which he does everytime he's in a relationship and there are problems. So that makes me think they won't last much longer.

All I want is Lucas to be happy. That's all that matters in the end. He shouldn't settle for anyone, he should follow his heart.

The Lucas/Nathan scenes. I always love these. ''Littlebrother'' .
When Nathan called Lucas coach it warmed my heart. Lucas finally doing something he loves. Taking control of the game.
Nathan really needs to control his temper though Lucas isn't always going to be around to pull him away from trouble. He needs to be able to do it on his own.

One thing I didn't like about this eppie.. No Jackson Sorry, but the baby doesn't really count as Jamie to me But he was cute!


Last but not least, Chad did an awesome job with this. We saw tons of different emotions from him, I loved the variety. I hope to see more episodes like this one

Manu9

I was making caps of the episode so I basically rewatched everything and couldn't help but feeling so bad for him. he went there, dressed up, with a ring and a restaurant and hotel reservation to make the night special for them, and she couldn't let the work aside for a moment. when during the dinner he begged her not to answer the phone, I just wanted to hug him. And in the hotel room, while he was walking in circle, waiting for her, and he finally got asleep, I just felt like that was so not fair.


he was so happy and so lovely when he celebrated in the middle of the airport. and then the big smile to the girl, till the reality came back to him and he realized once again the girl he loved was not there for him


I just second that

Sunshine_03

I agree. When I saw that scene in the hotel room, I got so mad at Peyton, I called her a not so nice thing

Paul1984

Manu I don't agree that Peyton wasn't sacrificing. She sacrificed her happiness of being together, to ensure they both achieved their dreams. She didn't want him to resent her in later life. Yes he'd have given it all up for her, but she didn't want him to have to. She also didn't want to end the relationship either. Yes I can see why it ended, but it wasn't about Peyton not wanting to marry Lucas. It was about ensuring the timing was right, so that they did last forever. I can see why Lucas reacted how he did totally and I don't blame him at all. I'm just saying that I think saying Peyton isn't willing to sacrifice isn't true, it's just a different sacrifice. She didn't think he'd be happy in LA. In reality she sacrificed what they had so that he had a chance to achieve his dream and funnily enough he did achieve it. In NY. He would have had to turn down that deal if he moved to LA. No way he could have worked with Lindsey all the time if she was in NY. And she couldn't have moved then.

The really sad thing in all of this, is that after Peyton asked for a year I really think Lucas waited a year. He waited and then the book signing came. I feel like surely he'd have tried again, but Peyton saw him with Lindsey and thought they were together and left. He waited and thought she wasn't there for him, but she was. so so sad

Manu9

Paul I don't agree with you. Peyton didn't sacrifice what they had so that he could achieve his dream. She sacrificed what they had so that she could achieve her dream.
after the proposal, Peyton talked a lot, but all I could see in her words was that she wasn't ready to get married and she wanted to achieve other things in her life. she tried to drag Lucas into it, but her speech wasn't working for Lucas, it wasn't what Lucas was feeling. I don't feel like she turned down his proposal for his sake. she turned down his proposal because she wanted something else in her life in that moment. I don't blame her, it's clear that Peyton is the kind of person that need to succeed as individual to be happy by herself and with the others. Lucas is another kind of person, the kind of person that finds their self fullfilment in love and family. that's how I felt things. peyton, with all of her speech, was just trying to convince him that she was right. but to me, she was right about herself, but not about Lucas. Lucas dream wasn't to publish his book, like she insisted when they were hugging on the bed. Lucas real dream was to be with her and have a family with her. I feel like Peyton was really just trying to convince him, and herself, that she was doing the best thing for both. But she wasn't. She was doing what she felt and was best for her. Lucas felt different and infact he realized that relationship, with a girl that put him in second place, wasn't what he wanted. saying "someday", peyton just went along with what she needed and wanted in that moment. And she sacrificed her relationship with Lucas, that in that moment of her life came second after her personal success as individual.

besides, about the whole proposal, I would like to point out that peyton didn't say "no", but she didn't say "yes" either. If it was just a matter of time, why didn't she say yes, and then she talked to him about the rest? sorry but I feel like since the first second, when we saw her with the box in her hands, she was already saying no, before even knowing that Lucas wanted to marry her soon. They were in different places in their heart. And neither is wrong, because we are made different. But all of her speech wasn't really about Lucas and doing the best thing for him. it was about herself and doing what she felt in that moment. Like leaving Tree Hill and leaving him alone was about herself. Thar was the worst year in Lucas' life and she went away not just for an internship (?) but for a lot longer. No way this could have worked for Lucas. He needed her, wanted her, was willing to give up on everything for her because she was the most important thing in his life. Peyton just didn't feel the same about him. Honestly I can't see anything selfless in what she did. It's not like she wanted to get married and didn't because that was the best thing for Lucas. no, it's that she didn't want to get married and she said no. She just followed her desires.

Paul1984

I don't see anything selfless from Lucas either. Peyton wanted to marry him someday. She did love him enough, not wanting to get married doesn't mean she doesn't love him enough. I don't equate love and marriage as being the same thing.

Peyton was being the rationale one at 19. Lucas wanted to get married because he had NH in his face being the perfect family all the time and decided he wanted the same thing. He wanted it, so it became marriage or nothing.

If Peyton wasn't being selfess then neither was Lucas. One wanted the relationship on his terms, one wanted the relationship on her terms. That's an argument for them both being selfish. Not wanting to get married right then is not a sign Peyton didn't love enough, but it became no good for Lucas. They had a different take on where the relationship needed to go so it ended.

Their reactions seperately though when they were apart and torn apart inside showed how they both really felt about it though. All I'm saying is that if you say Peyton didn't love him enough because she wasn't ready to marry him, then the counter argument is that Lucas didn't love her enough to wait. Personally I don't think either is true. It was a situation that got bad, because the people involved weren't mature enough to deal with it. They clearly both love each other. Lucas couldn't say otherwise at the end of the episode and Peyton came back for him and hasn't moved on after another 2 years. You don't hold on like that if the feelings aren't there.

Sunshine_03

You two always disagree I love reading all of this though!

kiaretta_85

Ihih even if you don't agree, your analysis are both interesting to read

Manu9

Paul I never said Lucas was being selfless in proposing and wanting to get married. but I can't see how people can say peyton was. I just said Peyton sure as hell was not being selfless, she was just going along with her desires.

I think the difference between the two was that Lucas was willing to give up on everything for her, to be with her. While she wasn't willing to give up on anything for him. That's where I think the difference between the two are. Peyton was the most important thing in Lucas life. Lucas was not the most important thing in Peyton's life.

you know, people keep saying peyton was the reasonable one and she was being the wiser. why? she was not ready. who are we to say Lucas wasn't either? he was ready to take a strong committment with her. the fact he left her doesn't mean he really wasn't ready to get married. it just means that he wanted something that she couldn't give him. that "someday" would have tainted their relationship, if they had stayed together. He deserved the chance to search for someone that felt like him, instead of just waiting for peyton to do her things and then accepting to marry him. He felt like she didn't love him enough and honestly I felt like that too. it's not about not wanting to marry him in that moment. it's about the way she rejected his proposal and the reasons she brought up. it's about the clear feeling I got, and Lucas got too, that he came second in her life.

I'd say let's agree to disagree I think we're looking at the situation from different point of views, like it happened to Lucas and Peyton. I think it's about what a person considers the most important thing in life and what a person needs to feel happy and complete. I am more like Lucas when it comes to this.

Paul1984

We don't always agree on this season, but Manu and I get on well, so it's all good .

Glad you like the discussion.

Manu9

I wanted to add that I think some people are looking at Lucas reaction in the wrong way. He didn't leave Peyton merely because she didn't say yes. he left her because her heart was not in the same place of his. they wanted different things, they were ready for different things. the split was about realizing they weren't on the same page, not merely about Peyton saying "someday".

ETA: I like when I can debate with someone without fighting