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Old 02-19-2008, 05:46 PM
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OTH Episode Discussion 5.08: "Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get What I Want"

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PEYTON CONFESSES HER FEELINGS TO LUCAS — Peyton (Hilarie Burton) admits her true feelings to Lucas (Chad Michael Murray). Brooke (Sophia Bush) makes a play for Owen (guest star Joe Manganiello, “ER”) and Mouth (Lee Norris) tries to convince Millicent (guest star Lisa Goldstein) he’s a better man than she thinks he is. Haley (Bethany Joy Galeotti) wrestles with whether or not to reveal information that could ruin Lucas’ relationship, and Nathan (James Lafferty) is put in a position that could spell the end of his marriage. Lucas and Skills (Antwon Tanner) face the coaching prospect of playing their season opener at a disadvantage.

Tentative Air Date: February 19, 2008
Writer: Mike Daniels
Director: Paul Johansson


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YouTube - One Tree Hill Episode 5.08 Promo
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:36 AM
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Thanks for starting
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Old 02-20-2008, 06:27 AM
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so, yesterday night Amelia made me a recap of the episode while it was airing. and I felt like it could have been an episode I could appreciate. And I did. I started thinking about Lucas before watching the episode, basing my thoughts on what Amelia had told me. And after having watched the episode, I thought about it even more.

This is gonna be a long post and it's all about Lucas and what I think is behind his behviour. I warned you, so if you keep reading and you get bored, it's all of your fault.

To understand what's inside Lucas now isn't easy. I keep a very tiny hope that now that Mark has (maybe) concluded Peyton's journey, he will focus a little bit on Lucas, explaining where Lucas stands in all of this. Anyway, I think maybe this episode gave us something to try to understand him, more than in the previous episodes of this season.

I think the most important part of the episode when it comes to Lucas is the proposal. Not because of LL or Lindsey. I saw the proposal as something completely about Lucas. It showed us a little bit of his soul. I really felt in this episode that Lucas is the most fragile between LP. Maybe even the most fragile on the show. He has insecurities that come from his past of abandoned child, from all Dan has been doing to him, from the fact he lost the only father figure he had (Keith), from the fact he grew up with a mother that was wonderful but also pushed the love of her life (Keith) away because she was scared. Till it was too late. The way we grow up affect us so I can see his past having a huge part in what Lucas is doing now.

the book. His novel, his dream come true. That novel seems now to be a damnation more than a bless. Once Lucas had basketball, that made him feel "like I belong", that was "a huge part of who I am". Then he lost it. And he had to learn to live without it. He had to find another way to express himself, another way to define himself. He found it in writing. He told Glenda, when he gave her his book to read: "My first dream was to play professional basketball. Now that I gave that up, you're holding my second dream. If this sucks, it becomes hard to find a third one". These are probably not the exact words because I can't understand exactly. But the meaning is in there.

The novel, it being good, it being published, became to Lucas a way to reassure himself he still had a place in the world, he still belonged to something, he still was worth. Sometime one year after that, Lucas hasn't published the novel yet. He keeps getting rejection letters. He feels insecure, he can't make his second dream come true. And it's killing him. That's when he tries to hold on to the only thing in his life that did matter to him more than anything else: Peyton. He proposes to her. Probably expecting a yes, expecting her to love him for what he is, novel or not. That's what he needs in that moment. Someone to reassure him he is worth it, novel or not. But Peyton isn't ready, she's scared and she says "someday". And Lucas, already completely deep down in his insecurities, takes it as a "no, you have not published your novel, you have failed in that too as you had to give up on basketball". In that moment, Lucas needed reassurance on himself, needed to feel someone loved him no matter what. But I think Peyton didn't understand it, not completely. She couldn't find the right words to let him get that it wasn't about the novel, as we learnt when Lucas told her he believes she gave up on him. I'm not blaming her, she got that Lucas was feeling insecure, but she thought he was feeling insecure about them, while I believe he was feeling insecure primarly about himself. The fact they were being far from each other and they were growing apart didn't maybe let Peyton understand how bad Lucas was feeling.

Then he talks with Brooke. And Brooke insists on his novel, like Peyton had talked about it too after the proposal. "You need to go out there and become the best person and the best writer you can be and then you approach Peyton again". And that's what Lucas did. He got his novel published and approached Peyton, inviting her to his book signing. But Peyton wasn't able to be selfless enough, in that moment, to put aside the possibility Lucas had moved on and she just walked away when she saw him with Lindsey.

There it comes LL in my opinion. Lindsey is the girl that helped Lucas making his dream come true, reading and passing his book to her boss. Helping him getting it published, helping him making it good. She's the one that was beside him in that year while they were editing it. She was there while Lucas was finding his place in the world again. Lindsey was there when Lucas made his second dream come true. I think there's something strong between LL. I think she saved him in some way. Do I think Lucas loves her more than he loves Peyton? No, of course I don't. It's made clear he doesn't and will never love anyone like he loves Peyton. But I think he feels like Lindsey gave him a place in the world again. A feeling he probably lost again when he couldn't write anymore. Years with a block that made him insecure again. I really believe the novel has a very important role in what Lucas is doing. The proposal kinda broke my heart, because Lucas showed how scared he is that people don't love him enough. He believes he is worth to be loved only if he is a great writer. As I said before, this is the result of his past but also the result of things Peyton, Brooke, even Lindsey told him. Being a writer was so important to him that he put a big pressure on himself. The book is what he has used to define himself. And the people around him, not understanding that, just helped him increasing that pressure, making such a big deal of that novel instead of helping him understand that he is so much more than a writer or not a writer.

Now Peyton is back in town and she loves him. And I really think he is aware he loves her. And he is still struggling with the second book. And there's this girlfriend he has, a girlfriend that helped him make his firt novel a dream come true. In the moment Lindsey told him she would love him no matter what, when instead in the past Peyton talked about his novel being published, Lucas felt like that was it. Lindsey would love him no matter what, Peyton hurt him so much so many times. Lucas doesn't love himself, he doesn't appreciate himself, he is the first (and only) one that believes he is not worth of being loved if he isn't a great writer. Hearing from Lindsey that she would love him even if he didn't write any line anymore, it pretty much eases the pressure he has put on his own shoulders with his expectations.

I laugh when I read people say that Lucas is hurting Peyton on purpose. And I feel sad when people say he is a jackass. He isn't either of the 2. He is just incredible insecure about himself. A song by Whitney Houston says "Learning to love yourself, It is the greatest love of all". And I think we all know that if you don't love yourself, it's really hard to feel loved by the others.

Maybe I'm seeing too much into all of this. Maybe Mark isn't trying to make any point. I have been disappointed in a big part of this season so far. But if Mark took some of the remaining time of this season to show us Lucas journey, to show us Lucas finding himself and learning to appreciate himself beyond being a basketball player or a writer, then I think I could love this season, because it would show a development in this character. I think Mark has concluded Peyton's journey. She has grown up, she has learned to stand on her feet, she has learnt to depend on herself, she has learnt that love is sacrifice, sometimes. Now Mark just has to dedicate a little bit of this season to show us Lucas journey. And we all know, I think, that after that journey, after Lucas has found himself and learnt not to judge himself on the basis of a novel, we all know that after that Lucas will go back to Peyton. And LP will be maybe the best it's ever been, because they both will have learnt to love themselves and to have faith in themselves as individuals.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:14 AM
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beautiful post Manu . I haven't seen the episode yet but I can def. agree with what you said cause imo all those things you wrote about were there all a long when it comes to my pov of Lucas .

I can't wait to watch the episode ! it sounds great ! I love lucas centeric epis. they are the best ones.

& btw . the last thing you said about LP . this is exactly what I meant when I was speaking about LP being equal in their love. when their love for each other will be simetric in a way , that's when they will be able to find eachother back.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:57 AM
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that's definitely right. I think Peyton has finally found herself, after years of searching. Lucas hasn't yet and that's what's preventing him from letting Peyton in. Peyton like Brooke in the past and like Lindsey too. I truly believe this guy doesn't love himself and that's what it's making him such a mess. You need to learn to love yourlself to be able to find a place in the world. If Mark does this, if he shows us Lucas way to finding himself, then this will be a great season. I just hope he does focus on Lucas' journey as he has done with Peyton's in this part of the season.

after this episode I just love Lucas more, because he is has flaws that make him human. Because he has a hard past and issues that make me feel for him. Because he tries to prove people that he is good enough but the truth is that the only one that can't see he is a great guy is Lucas himself. He is fragile and he is insecure. And I love him for that, because it makes him human
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:20 AM
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Great post Manu I think we might actually agree on a lot of things this week

Where to start. I loved the emotional depth in this episode. Every scene was building towards something, even the scenes I didn’t like had a purpose. The music was beautifully edited into the scenes and not overbearing like it sometimes can be and it just seemed like such a massive improvment on the quality of last week.

Lucas I really felt for in this episode. He has serious inferiority and abandonment issues. I believe he loves Lindsey, but he was not going to propose to her until he knew she was about to walk away. His desperation to not be alone made him jump to that step without thinking, even if he does love Lindsey. He panicked. All his insecurities came out about the book and where he sees himself in life. Same problems he had back in 505. He needs to learn to love himself, before he can be in a really true relationship with someone again. The end result is probably going to be heartbreak for Lindsey, because he still won’t confront his true feelings. His looks in the episode were so sad, especially for a newly engaged man. I think Lucas’ journey still has a long way to go, he has to find himself and actually grow more as a person. Hopefully we’ll get to see that.

I didn’t mind the Lucas/Lindsey proposal so much. It showed Lucas does love Lindsey, redeeming his actions, at least to some degree, whilst also showing he proposed for what were essentially the wrong reasons. What he said had a bit of depth and for the first time I actually saw Lindsey really means something to him. Lindsey accepting though, that still bemuses me. I can fully take on board any argument that Lucas told her what she was wanting to hear and that getting engaged probably put her other fears out of her head. I still find it hard to believe though that half an hour before she said they were screwed because he can’t stop loving Peyton and then she says yes to his proposal. She must really have blocked out anything that came before, which I guess maybe happened in that moment. I’m just not sure engagement will make her insecurities go away. Engagement, or Marriage is not a magical fix for that and I think potentially she will find that out in coming episodes, if Lucas’ behaviour doesn’t change anyway. It might though now that Peyton is going to try and stay out of the way and he will probably do the same for now.

Peyton I loved to bits in the episode. I really didn’t like the line about not marrying Lindsey, because it did come off as desperate, even if it is understandable. Apart from that though she was amazingly strong. I loved how she tried to get Molly onto her own path. She gave up coming back for Lucas, but she didn’t give up on him. She basically told him she’ll bury her love and be a good friend. I think that was so difficult for her and yet she did it, because Lucas’ happiness in the end she realised is as important to her as anything. I love the way she found meaning in visiting her mom’s grave too. Sometimes we all need a little inspiration and hope from somewhere, she finds hers in talking to her mom, even if she’s dead. I’m not much for having a faith for myself, but I love Peyton’s trust in fate and destiny, to take the leaf falling as a sign to move on. In the end she looked stronger and happier than Lucas, who seems to be fighting a constant battle, his head vs his heart.

LP I have ultimate faith in this episode. The longing looks and the signs were there. Lucas will always love her and Peyton will forever wait for him. They’re in different places right now and it’s been a few years, but the heart wants what it wants and they still want each other. I don’t understand why people think love will fade after 3 years. I have family that died 5 years ago. I still love them as much now as I did then, why would time change those feelings? If you really truly deeply love someone that connection never really goes away. If you don’t see them it gets pushed to the back of your mind, but seeing that person again can bring it rushing back in an instant. I believe this happened for LP. I also think that’s why Lucas was so angry when Peyton came back. She came back and all his feelings rushed back, she turned his world upside down and he wasn’t ready. He still isn’t ready, but in time I think he will be, just he has his own issues to deal with. The gym scene was played to perfection, Lucas silent but always looking emotional, Peyton making the sacrifice for him. Then his heartbreak as she left.

I’ve still got to clap Hil and Chad on their performances this year because wow they’ve played some of these scenes to perfection.

Haley annoyed me in the episode. I actually respect her right to say something to Peyton and feel she was right to. However her tone throughout was a total scolding, no chance for explanation and a total air of ‘I’m perfect’ superiority about her. That was what annoyed me about it. Also the fact that all Lucas got was a stern few words while Peyton had to endure the full wrath, being called a cheat and whore in the process. It’s actually Lucas that is cheating on someone here and the hypocrisy in the different level of her two talks just annoyed me all to hell. It’s really ruined PH for me too, because it just seems Haley has no interest in Peyton as a friend at all. She doesn’t want to hear anything she has to say, or even care about Peyton’s heart in all this, which despite anything Peyton did wrong is always a concern of true friends. I hate that Haley has appointed herself moral judge and jury of the universe about it, just like I hated when Peyton did it in the beginning of s3. The high horse thing gets very old very fast, especially when people get into other people’s business.

I do feel for Haley chasing her dream too, but what time was she getting home? How long has she been in that studio lately? Enough so that Jackson is calling Carrie moma. It’s not right and I think Nathan should probably say something about it. Although he has his own crap he’s being stupid about right now.

Nathan was just ughh in the episode. Why is the nanny not fired? Just fire her on the spot for that crap. It’s totally ridiculous. Even though I believe he has no bad intent in anything about it, he just needs to actually say something. Jamie is way too close to Carrie and Carrie is a total skank. She isn’t fit to be around the kid. This whole nutty seductress nanny thing is just beyond contrived. I just don’t feel like NH are dealing with it like I really expect them to. It’s being played in a way to build high drama instead of shooting for anything approaching realistic. I know I’m not watching oscar material or anything, but I don’t think asking for the characters to behave in character is asking for that much. I guess this is what you get when a load of the writers get replaced for the new season.

Brooke was great again in this episode. A really great friend to Peyton supporting her when she’s needed it most, even if it drags up their past. I loved her scenes with Jamie and she really seems to have matured a lot. I think that scene in the car with Owen was to show a direct contrast that way. She was seducing him, but she’s not willing to just give anything away. The Owen/Brooke interaction in general has been really snappy and fun to watch. They seem to have great chemistry.

Mouth I actually didn’t mind at all in this episode. I like his thing with Millicent and Millicent is really great. I just hate his boss and the direction that went because it was disgusting, but I feel like it’s getting back on track for him, even if I do find his character to be mainly boring and always playing the whiney “why doesn’t the nice guy get anything?” card. As if the world should be fairer for him than it is for everyone else. In this episode though he started taking control of his life and actually trying to make good things happen, so it was a lot better.

This in the end was one of my favourite episodes of the season. It just felt really well acted and put together. It didn’t feel jumpy or badly directed, the acting was great and I really felt all the raw emotions in the scenes that I needed to feel, if they were to work. It was a depressingly toned episode, but also with a lot of hope left and I guess that was the point.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu9 (View Post)
so, yesterday night Amelia made me a recap of the episode while it was airing. and I felt like it could have been an episode I could appreciate. And I did. I started thinking about Lucas before watching the episode, basing my thoughts on what Amelia had told me. And after having watched the episode, I thought about it even more.

This is gonna be a long post and it's all about Lucas and what I think is behind his behviour. I warned you, so if you keep reading and you get bored, it's all of your fault.

To understand what's inside Lucas now isn't easy. I keep a very tiny hope that now that Mark has (maybe) concluded Peyton's journey, he will focus a little bit on Lucas, explaining where Lucas stands in all of this. Anyway, I think maybe this episode gave us something to try to understand him, more than in the previous episodes of this season.

I think the most important part of the episode when it comes to Lucas is the proposal. Not because of LL or Lindsey. I saw the proposal as something completely about Lucas. It showed us a little bit of his soul. I really felt in this episode that Lucas is the most fragile between LP. Maybe even the most fragile on the show. He has insecurities that come from his past of abandoned child, from all Dan has been doing to him, from the fact he lost the only father figure he had (Keith), from the fact he grew up with a mother that was wonderful but also pushed the love of her life (Keith) away because she was scared. Till it was too late. The way we grow up affect us so I can see his past having a huge part in what Lucas is doing now.

the book. His novel, his dream come true. That novel seems now to be a damnation more than a bless. Once Lucas had basketball, that made him feel "like I belong", that was "a huge part of who I am". Then he lost it. And he had to learn to live without it. He had to find another way to express himself, another way to define himself. He found it in writing. He told Glenda, when he gave her his book to read: "My first dream was to play professional basketball. Now that I gave that up, you're holding my second dream. If this sucks, it becomes hard to find a third one". These are probably not the exact words because I can't understand exactly. But the meaning is in there.

The novel, it being good, it being published, became to Lucas a way to reassure himself he still had a place in the world, he still belonged to something, he still was worth. Sometime one year after that, Lucas hasn't published the novel yet. He keeps getting rejection letters. He feels insecure, he can't make his second dream come true. And it's killing him. That's when he tries to hold on to the only thing in his life that did matter to him more than anything else: Peyton. He proposes to her. Probably expecting a yes, expecting her to love him for what he is, novel or not. That's what he needs in that moment. Someone to reassure him he is worth it, novel or not. But Peyton isn't ready, she's scared and she says "someday". And Lucas, already completely deep down in his insecurities, takes it as a "no, you have not published your novel, you have failed in that too as you had to give up on basketball". In that moment, Lucas needed reassurance on himself, needed to feel someone loved him no matter what. But I think Peyton didn't understand it, not completely. She couldn't find the right words to let him get that it wasn't about the novel, as we learnt when Lucas told her he believes she gave up on him. I'm not blaming her, she got that Lucas was feeling insecure, but she thought he was feeling insecure about them, while I believe he was feeling insecure primarly about himself. The fact they were being far from each other and they were growing apart didn't maybe let Peyton understand how bad Lucas was feeling.

Then he talks with Brooke. And Brooke insists on his novel, like Peyton had talked about it too after the proposal. "You need to go out there and become the best person and the best writer you can be and then you approach Peyton again". And that's what Lucas did. He got his novel published and approached Peyton, inviting her to his book signing. But Peyton wasn't able to be selfless enough, in that moment, to put aside the possibility Lucas had moved on and she just walked away when she saw him with Lindsey.

There it comes LL in my opinion. Lindsey is the girl that helped Lucas making his dream come true, reading and passing his book to her boss. Helping him getting it published, helping him making it good. She's the one that was beside him in that year while they were editing it. She was there while Lucas was finding his place in the world again. Lindsey was there when Lucas made his second dream come true. I think there's something strong between LL. I think she saved him in some way. Do I think Lucas loves her more than he loves Peyton? No, of course I don't. It's made clear he doesn't and will never love anyone like he loves Peyton. But I think he feels like Lindsey gave him a place in the world again. A feeling he probably lost again when he couldn't write anymore. Years with a block that made him insecure again. I really believe the novel has a very important role in what Lucas is doing. The proposal kinda broke my heart, because Lucas showed how scared he is that people don't love him enough. He believes he is worth to be loved only if he is a great writer. As I said before, this is the result of his past but also the result of things Peyton, Brooke, even Lindsey told him. Being a writer was so important to him that he put a big pressure on himself. The book is what he has used to define himself. And the people around him, not understanding that, just helped him increasing that pressure, making such a big deal of that novel instead of helping him understand that he is so much more than a writer or not a writer.

Now Peyton is back in town and she loves him. And I really think he is aware he loves her. And he is still struggling with the second book. And there's this girlfriend he has, a girlfriend that helped him make his firt novel a dream come true. In the moment Lindsey told him she would love him no matter what, when instead in the past Peyton talked about his novel being published, Lucas felt like that was it. Lindsey would love him no matter what, Peyton hurt him so much so many times. Lucas doesn't love himself, he doesn't appreciate himself, he is the first (and only) one that believes he is not worth of being loved if he isn't a great writer. Hearing from Lindsey that she would love him even if he didn't write any line anymore, it pretty much eases the pressure he has put on his own shoulders with his expectations.

I laugh when I read people say that Lucas is hurting Peyton on purpose. And I feel sad when people say he is a jackass. He isn't either of the 2. He is just incredible insecure about himself. A song by Whitney Houston says "Learning to love yourself, It is the greatest love of all". And I think we all know that if you don't love yourself, it's really hard to feel loved by the others.

Maybe I'm seeing too much into all of this. Maybe Mark isn't trying to make any point. I have been disappointed in a big part of this season so far. But if Mark took some of the remaining time of this season to show us Lucas journey, to show us Lucas finding himself and learning to appreciate himself beyond being a basketball player or a writer, then I think I could love this season, because it would show a development in this character. I think Mark has concluded Peyton's journey. She has grown up, she has learned to stand on her feet, she has learnt to depend on herself, she has learnt that love is sacrifice, sometimes. Now Mark just has to dedicate a little bit of this season to show us Lucas journey. And we all know, I think, that after that journey, after Lucas has found himself and learnt not to judge himself on the basis of a novel, we all know that after that Lucas will go back to Peyton. And LP will be maybe the best it's ever been, because they both will have learnt to love themselves and to have faith in themselves as individuals.
My turn! Now I just want to hug you!!! Great post and since you've really said it all I don't have a novel length post for you this week.

I agree about Lucas and I agree that everything he was voicing to Lindsey is how he was feeling 3 years ago and how he's still feeling now. I really do think the reason he proposed was b/c everything she said is exactly what he wanted to hear from Peyton 3 years ago. What he needed so badly. That she would love him no matter what, whether his book was published or not, no matter how unsuccessful or successful he was. He just really needed that reassurance from her. It's sad too b/c whether he was really planning to propose to Lindsey or not he really had to hear her say that before he even had the confidence to ask her to marry him. A lot of this reminds me of Nathan in season 4 when he asked Haley if he never went to Duke, never played college basketball would he be enough? I tried explaining this on another board and well... nevermind.

I really do hope that we will now see Lucas' journey since Peyton's is over. They can't be LP again until Lucas finds himself. I also hope we really see Peyton being a good friend to him now (not just them avoiding each other) b/c he truly needs it.
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:56 PM
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you guys are killing me with those posts I love you guys !

people tend to forget Lucas's pov sometimes , He's the most misunderstood character on the show , I guess maybe cause He's not so vocal about his own feelings & tend to hide them so well .
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:35 AM
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he really is misunderstood sometimes. I think it's due to the fact he is definitely the character that talks about his own insecurities and problem less than anybody else. I think the only time he has really voiced in part his issues was in the end of season 4, when he mentioned to Nathan and then he talked to his mom about Dan and how much he wanted the truth about Keith being revealed. For the rest, he has never really talked about his own problems with anyone. He usually is the one people turn to when they need help. But he rarely goes to anyone when he has a problem. He keeps it inside himself. And part of the viewers just tend to underestimate how complicated this character is, because their perception of the characters is largely based on what these characters actually do on the show. I mean, it's easy to feel for Brooke when she tells Lucas he hurt her and she is scared to let him in again. It's easy to feel for Peyton when she cries over her moms and talks about them with people. With Lucas, you have to interpret more than see because he rarely lets us "see". does it make sense?


Quote:
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My turn! Now I just want to hug you!!! Great post and since you've really said it all I don't have a novel length post for you this week.
we're on the same page lately


Quote:
I agree about Lucas and I agree that everything he was voicing to Lindsey is how he was feeling 3 years ago and how he's still feeling now. I really do think the reason he proposed was b/c everything she said is exactly what he wanted to hear from Peyton 3 years ago. What he needed so badly. That she would love him no matter what, whether his book was published or not, no matter how unsuccessful or successful he was. He just really needed that reassurance from her. It's sad too b/c whether he was really planning to propose to Lindsey or not he really had to hear her say that before he even had the confidence to ask her to marry him. A lot of this reminds me of Nathan in season 4 when he asked Haley if he never went to Duke, never played college basketball would he be enough? I tried explaining this on another board and well... nevermind.
I found completely heartbreaking Lucas line "I was waiting to give you the ring untill I was sure I had another book in me". isn't that the saddest thing? Like being a writer (or playing basketball in the past) was the only reason why people could love him. I really think the proposal says everything about Lucas and how huge his issues are.

I agree on the comparison with Nathan. I didn't think about it when I watched the episode, but you're right. and this makes me think even more that I might be right when I say Lucas' issues come from Dan. Nathan has the same father and look at that, he has had similar issues. actually, he still has the same issues. He lost basketball and we have seen him completely lost in the season premiere: "I am nothing". A belief that Lucas clearly has about himself too. I think Nathan made a step towards the resolution of those issues when he went to see Dan and then gave him the picture of Jamie. It was a first step in letting Dan and the past go. Lucas still has to deal with it, in my opinion.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:37 AM
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manu great great post
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:03 PM
  #11
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Am I the only one who didn't like the episode?

I again found it boring and just going in circles again.. So Lindsay and Lucas are engaged, but that won't make Lucas' feeling for Peyton just dissapear.
How can Peyton truely let go of Lucas while still staying in Tree Hill? Very doubtful.

I did however love seeing the ''old'' Brooke in the back seat, naked

I didn't mind Mouth's storyline at all, I actually enjoyed it

Jamie was the cutest thing ever with ice cream all over his mouth I think Brooke would make a good mom, I love seeing her with Jamie.

Carrie is still a ****. I'm very curious as to what Nathan is going to do.

That about sums it up for me. Not impressed at all with the way Season 5 is turing out
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:07 PM
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I didn't really love the episode, but considering what we had got before it, it was better than I expected. I still want more for Lucas, more for the show in general. But I decided not to have any expectation so I don't get too disappointed
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:22 AM
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My great post: I really loved this episode (long post isn't for me)

The first moment between Lucas and Lindsey was moving.
Lucas who wants hide his doubts for his love with peyton and lindsey, and I found peyton's sacrifice was really beautiful and... Lucas and skills like Coach whitey and Keith in the coach's office with alcool I found this moment very funny . But not lucas enough but great episode
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:37 AM
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Audrey, I thought the same when I saw Lucas and Skills drinking It's Whitey and Keith in the old days
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:13 AM
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So I finally watched the episode . I gotta say . it was great . I might be in minority here but I thought it was well written & I loved the directing .

I will start with Chad . He was excellent . I think I don't have enough words to say how amazing He was in this episode . & He was . He's facial expressions & He body launguge , those teary eyes He had in the gym scene . the skillz\Lucas scene , He got it through so very well .

Hilarie was amazing as well . I felt for Peyton this episode . I missed Hilarie's great acting , I loved her on so many levels this epi.

to me Chad , Hilarie & Sophia owned this episode .

now to the characters:

I love,love,love scens with Skillz. with Lucas, with Nathan ..I just love the dude . He's such an awesome supporting character & He helps to the SL so much . Antwen is doing a fantastic job & I really enjoy him.

I love Owen\Brooke. . I think this guy is getting out of her a little bit of the old fun Brooke , S1 , but this time they show her limits . I have to say , I really enjoy this character this season. the scenes with lil' Jamie are wonderful , so adorable , & I even LOVE BP . I thought it was a great scene & the moment they burnet Lucas's book , as an act of cleansing , reminded me a lot of the first episode in s2. I love how honest Brooke is about things , it's a refreshing change from most characters. I think in that she elevates Peyton as well & make her feel what she has with Lucas isn't just in her mind.

Nathan\Haley\Carry SL . I am starting to get enough with this SL . it's funny to see how hard it is for the scott boys to stand for their feets & say NO. what is this , get the whacho out of the house & o.k you don't have to expalin if that's hard for you , but man up ! & Haley , sure Carry helps you but there are more nannys out there , kick some ass woman .

sorry . end rant . lol .

Mouth\Millicent- it was o.k , they did'nt bug me that much . next .

Peyton . I loved her this episode . like really loved her . I felt so connected to her , I was so touched by her scenes , I cried with her . I love it when Hil makes me feel like that , there are only few actors on this show who can , & I think even Chad was a bit a owe. He had this look in his eyes , can't explain it , maybe it's jut in my head idk ...lol..it's so obvious Peyton id beating her self up for not saying yes right away , she's looking for an answer a sign that Lucas is indeed still inlove with her , like she feels . she's scared to lose him , she is sad to see him so "closed"to her , casue I think Peyton knows so well what is underneath this charade Lucas is putting . she sees through him . she always could . that's way it's harder to let go . she wants the truth , that's why to me she was saying "you still love me don't you" ? I see this as her taking it a step further in order to know whather she needs to let go for good or not .

I thought the entire way they showed her recognizing that what her & Lucas shared was fading & not timeless as she thought , or so she believes , was showen in a very very specail & artistic way . I loved it .

I can't wait to see what in installed for Lucas & Peyton . I think the writers showed us how scared & how deep in denial Lucas is . the sacrefice scene was amazing

I have so many things more to say , but I better save it to the LP thread .
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