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Old 02-10-2004, 11:03 AM
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JA MDT Round 1: Should Convicted Murderers Be Allowed To Get Married?

[img]smilies/star.gif[/img] [img]smilies/star.gif[/img] Monthly Discussion Topic, Round 1 [img]smilies/star.gif[/img] [img]smilies/star.gif[/img]

Hej all!

Brienchen and I thought about how to get the discussion going on this board. Well, we came to the conclusion that a discussion on a weekly basis inspired by subjects which were raised on the show might be a fine start. So please, don't let us down!
You can join in even if you think you're not familiar enough with the show!


The Back-Story:
The question was inspired by Donna Kozlowski (Jillian Armenante) who married Oscar Ray Pant Jr. (Brent Sexton), a man convicted for killing his mother with an axe. When she did so in 1x05: "Last Tango in Hartford", Donna was convinced the guy was not guilty - because he told her so. She even studied law to become an attorney to get him out of jail. Finally when their daughter was born, Oscar broke down and confessed that he indeed killed his mother. Donna then filed for divorce after that relevation in 2x09: "The Undertow".

I guess since the show is more family orientated, Oscar never seemed like a really bad and brutal guy. But the fact remains, he was guilty - though he denied it even after the trial.

So based on that, this month's topic is:

Should Convicted Murderers Be Allowed To Get Married?

Please join in on the discussion, even if you have missed those particular episodes. It's okay to keep your comment on a more general level.

[ 03-08-2004: Message edited Nikki K ]
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:53 PM
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[img]smilies/wave.gif[/img] Nina drug me over! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

First off, I think these weekly discussion topics are a marvelous idea.

So while I do not watch JA, I will try to answer most on a general approach.

Should convicted murderers be allowed to get married? In my mind, a plain and simple no is the only answer. Of course, I am fairly conservative in my views and live in the south. But here's my reasoning: A murderer gives up all human rights in my minds eye when this person takes another person's life. Even if the murderer isn't sentenced to death, the punishment he/she is left with should be just as tormented. The victim doesn't have a chance to get married or be free or be educated or any of those things. So why should the murderer?

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Old 02-11-2004, 10:59 AM
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Really great topic. I'll answer to it in the next few days, when I have more time. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:54 PM
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Hello. Great idea for a thread.

Hmmm.. I'm not sure how I want to answer.

I mean, I think who would want to marry a convicted murderer? And what good would it do? There really aren't many perks in the prison system, ya know!

Carol
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:38 PM
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I also don't watch JA, but I love the idea of this kind of topic. TV/Entertainment, plus posting interaction brings a lot of good issues and opinions to light. I think this is great.

I'm going to come down on the "No" side.

While I hate denying human "rights", however, I think you give up those rights when committing a crime of that nature. I think you give up your right to freedom, and all that comes with it.

Said murderer took away those rights from the victim-and in my mind does not deserve any more rights than the victim. He's taken out of society and place in prison for a reason-he cannot live by societies rules. I believe that you don't get the benefits of society if you can't live within the laws of it.
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Old 03-08-2004, 04:01 PM
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First of all, I wanted to say how much I appreciate your participation! [img]smilies/hug.gif[/img] It's really great to see a discussion starting - so keep it up, please. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Brienchen - We're still waiting for your statement here! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]


Quote:
Originally posted by Yellow Mustang Girl:
<STRONG>

I mean, I think who would want to marry a convicted murderer? And what good would it do? There really aren't many perks in the prison system, ya know!

</STRONG>

That's another point I often wondered about, Car. But you see it on documentaries on TV all the time - women who write to murderers and then (think they fell) / fall in love with them for whatever reason and fighting for them - often even committing crimes themselves to get them free or sth. -- I can't even get a single bit what is going on in their minds. To me that sounds crazy... but I guess there must be studies about this. Anyone has some insights in this?

Personally I have a feeling that, I'm also more on the side of those who are against letting them get married. But then on the other hand - I'm against the death penalty because it's a fact that there is a not too little percentage of people killed who were in fact not guilty. So with regard to that, if the convict doesn't receive the death penalty, and s/he gets a life sentence - but his/her guilt isn't 100% proven - are we allowed to take his/her human rights from him/her? I mean if there's a possibility s/he is innocent? Does that make any sense to you?
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Old 03-11-2004, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nikki K:
<STRONG>Does that make any sense to you?</STRONG>

Yes, it does, indeed. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


Helen Prejean wrote the Book Dead man walking, in which she describes how she got to know a man in the death row and how she fell in love with him. It was also adapted for a movie.


Whatever I want to say with this... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

So, I'm not quite sure about this topic.

I mean, these people are nonetheless human beings with certain rights. Though they lost some of these rights when killing someone.
If there are persons that are in love with these murders and vice versa, I think it's okay if they marry. But perhaps I just feel like that, because I'm relativley indifferent. *shrug*
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Old 03-13-2004, 08:55 AM
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First of all, Donna is not too bright in the first place. Marrying this guy, having his child, and giving birth in a small bath tub in the middle of Amy's living room were strange. One can see how Donna's mother felt regarding her daughter whome she had admitted never understood her.
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Old 03-13-2004, 08:12 PM
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Angel - was that Susan Sarandon and Sean Penn's movie? I've only seen the very end of it - I probably have to rent it one time. Wasn't she a nun and he indeed guilty and denying it till the bitter end? Or am I making up things?

Bronson - thanks for your input and welcome on board! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] hope you'll stay and post around more often. so please don't get it wrong if I ask you a question then - where did you get the impression from that Donna is not bright. I mean even her mother admitted that she has a very high IQ. I'd say that Donna is very trustful and might not have the best knowledge of human nature because she always want to think the best of people (that is unless they had proven her otherwise). She also once admitted to Kyle that she didn't get accepted at certain colleges because she never goes for an easy answer and needs too much time to think about questions because of that. But does that make her dumb or not bright? I'd say 'no' - though probably by society's standards the answer might be ambivalent.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:28 PM
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I agree. Donna is very niave and trusting, not necessarily a bad quality, but one that can certainly be taken advantage of.
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Old 03-31-2004, 12:14 PM
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OK, referring to Donna as dumb may have been unfair. I am not saying I don't like her. I guess I was looking at the situation of marrying this murderer, having his child, and giving birth under water.
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Old 03-31-2004, 01:43 PM
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giving birth under water is actually very common - it eases the pain for some women and I think the main idea behind it is that the baby isn't in shock of the cold air and environment, when it is born into warm water.

but hej... whatever. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

maybe we can agree on the following: Donna was naive and maybe love made her blind as well.
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You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").
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Old 04-01-2004, 05:03 PM
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Hi,
while I am not watching JA I do have an opinion on this topic.
To my mind no one can take away human rights, and it shocks me to see some people here share the idea of taking away human rights as a revenge to what the murderer did. (We get down on the same level of the murderer, who thinks it is his decision what rights the other person has)
I see no connection between marriage and murderer in a direct way. One should be only punished directly for what one did, If he is a threat to public then lock hi away. If he did cruel things to kids then never let him have/see kids again.

Tobi.

ps: sorry for this level_of_english ;-) and sorry I write one month too late, but I don't get here frequently and just saw this mdt-thread.
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Old 04-02-2004, 05:16 AM
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[img]smilies/wave.gif[/img] hej tobi! [img]smilies/wave.gif[/img]
thanks for your answer and welcome on board! those are some good points you have there. so Karen - what do you say?
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Happy thoughts,
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You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:22 PM
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Interesting response Tobi. Thank you, and I do respect your opinion.

But I don't see it as *revenge* at all having a murderer not being able to get married. I only see it as a part of the punishment for his crime paid. Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege, and there is a huge difference.
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