Charmed - "Ordinary Witches" Episode Discussion (Jan. 16th)

Movietime Blues · 01-11-2005, 05:54 PM

http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Episode/0...||2174,00.html

charmed: Ordinary Witches

Fresh | sunday | 8/7c

Still not completely sure that the Avatars mean well, Piper (Holly Marie Combs) agrees to switch powers with Phoebe (Alyssa Milano) so that she too can see Phoebe's premonition of a utopian world. During the spell, Zankou (guest star Oded Fehr), the most powerful demon in the underworld, senses the girls' vulnerability and attacks them, accidentally transferring their powers to innocent bystanders, who run amok with their new abilities. Meanwhile, Brody's (guest star Kerr Smith) desire to kill Leo (Brian Krause) and the Avatars prompts Paige (Rose McGowan) to take Brody on a journey back to his childhood when his parents were killed so that he can learn the truth. Finally, the Elders learn Leo's true identity.

Jonathan West directed the episode written by Mark Wilding.

**Imzadi** · 01-14-2005, 09:29 AM

cant wait to see the new ep..sounds great

Sir Fireboard · 01-17-2005, 03:08 AM

It was an ok ep, but it's getting a bit too repetitive. First we had Leo tell them he was an avatar, and Kyle tries to kill him. They rewind time, and then the next week Piper and Phoebe find out he's an avatar, then this episode, Brody tries to kill him again.

But anyway, I did like this ep, and it was really sad when Kyle's parents died

And Whistler from Buffy was a demon! He looked really different.

xextremex · 01-17-2005, 09:37 PM

Not sure about everyone else, but I loved the episode.
Spoilers
Some things that stick out for me are
*The way the Elders were willing to kill Leo to 'save' themselves. The looks on their faces after failing set the tone for the episode. Brian did very well in that scene.
*The writers did an excellent job with Kyle. The scenes where he first saw his parents and when he watched them die were written so well. IMO, he was annoying until this episode.
*Nice humor. Just a few sentences were great. 'Zankou... where do they get these names?!'

Overall, I enjoyed this episode. The whole thing with their neighbors getting the powers wasn't very exciting, but Phoebe made up for it with that nice scene when he saw Eutopia. I have a feeling Kyle will use that potion.. it's too soon for a perfect world.

LizMoore30 · 01-18-2005, 09:17 AM

From the comments I've read, only one person doesn't seem bothered by Brody bringing back the Avatar vanquishing potion from the past. Why is that?

I anyone else bothered by the fact that Leo and the sisters are willing to help the Avatars turn the world into a Utopia? Granted, the Elders' attempt to kill Leo in that manner was wrong. But what Leo plans to do - with the other Avatars and the Halliwells - is monstrous. They plan to turn the world into some kind of Utopia, and at the same time, rob humanity of its free will and commit the mass murder of demons regardless if the latter are an immediate threat or not.
By allying themselves with the Avatars in this plan for Utopia, the Charmed Ones and Leo have truly become self-righteous monsters.

As for the episode . . . it was clearly mediocre. Only Kerr Smith and Oded Fehr's performances saved this episode. Zankou's attempt to destroy the Avatars' plans, along with Kyle witnessing the deaths of his parents were interesting. But the whole "mortals ending up with the Charmed Ones' powers" plotline was at best stale . . . and stupid.

Hunniah · 01-18-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizMoore30

But what Leo plans to do - with the other Avatars and the Halliwells - is monstrous. They plan to turn the world into some kind of Utopia, and at the same time, rob humanity of its free will and commit the mass murder of demons regardless if the latter are an immediate threat or not.
By allying themselves with the Avatars in this plan for Utopia, the Charmed Ones and Leo have truly become self-righteous monsters.

As for the episode . . . it was clearly mediocre. Only Kerr Smith and Oded Fehr's performances saved this episode. Zankou's attempt to destroy the Avatars' plans, along with Kyle witnessing the deaths of his parents were interesting. But the whole "mortals ending up with the Charmed Ones' powers" plotline was at best stale . . . and stupid.

Do you ever have anything GOOD to say about this show?? I mean I notice your other posts and I don't recall any of them were in favor of the show, I fail to understand why you even bother to watch it then when you despise it so much..

I totally disagree with your whole post.. Infact it doesnt make any sense to me!

LizMoore30 · 01-18-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunniah

Do you ever have anything GOOD to say about this show?? I mean I notice your other posts and I don't recall any of them were in favor of the show, I fail to understand why you even bother to watch it then when you despise it so much..

I totally disagree with your whole post.. Infact it doesnt make any sense to me!

I was complimentary about Kerr Smith and Oded Fehr's performances. What more do you want? Are you upset, because I believe that what the Halliwells, Leo and the Avatars are about to do is monstrously wrong? Frankly, I consider robbing a being of his or her free will is one of the worst evils ever. And by inflicting this Utopia upon the world, that is exactly what they are about to do - rob humanity of its free will.

Movietime Blues · 01-18-2005, 06:04 PM

I thought this was a pretty decent episode. You could see how obsessed Brody is with killing the Avatars even after learning the truth about what happened to his parents. Is it me or did they really do a good job with the outdoor set during the New York scenes?

I know that they're using a studio lot but it's amazing how that thing is done to make it look as realistic as possible.

Zankou is playing the Elders against the Avatars so that he can move in for the kill. I could see this for miles away without having to look at any spoilers (I haven't). Another interesting part was when Phoebe told Piper about the names of the demons and how strange they sounded. Piper's reply, "After all these years now you wonder?,"(paraphrase) was a thinly-veiled "back-at-ya" for being pressured by Pheebs to agree to a power-switching spell.

Speaking of which, some people have pointed out a glaring error in the continuity (then again, what's new?). The first time the spell was used it was said differently.

Holly looked so cute being the reluctant sister to Phoebe during the power-switching moment. That's my shallow comment of the day.

**Imzadi** · 01-19-2005, 07:43 AM

i watched the episode last night .. finally and i have to say that i really liked it .. i liked the dialogues and the whole story.. but i really want to know ..Kyle knows now that the avatars havent killed his parents ..why did he bring the potion back to the present from the past?

Suga*Babe · 01-19-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizMoore30

Frankly, I consider robbing a being of his or her free will is one of the worst evils ever. And by inflicting this Utopia upon the world, that is exactly what they are about to do - rob humanity of its free will.

I haven't watched it yet and I'm curious, are they actually robbing people of they're free will or are they just turning the world into utopia without telling anyone?

xextremex · 01-19-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suga*Babe

I haven't watched it yet and I'm curious, are they actually robbing people of they're free will or are they just turning the world into utopia without telling anyone?

I see it as saving the lives of millions of innocent people. Demons are constantly killing innocents and ridding the world of them would stop it. There are 'good' demons in the world, though. The Seer wasn't totally evil. Well, she was at first. She just wanted to become human. Destroying demons would destroy others like her.. The Utopia is what Piper, Phoebe, Paige, and even Prue always wanted. At some point, they were all tired of fighting demons. Now they have a chance at a normal life.. they will take it.

Suga*Babe · 01-19-2005, 03:30 PM

That's what I thought, the way it was said further up the thread was that they were taking away free will. Riding the world of demons and taking away free will is hardly the same thing.

LizMoore30 · 01-19-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xextremex

I see it as saving the lives of millions of innocent people. Demons are constantly killing innocents and ridding the world of them would stop it. There are 'good' demons in the world, though. The Seer wasn't totally evil. Well, she was at first. She just wanted to become human. Destroying demons would destroy others like her.. The Utopia is what Piper, Phoebe, Paige, and even Prue always wanted. At some point, they were all tired of fighting demons. Now they have a chance at a normal life.. they will take it.

Humanity's free will is being robbed. One of the things about good and evil is that it's all about choice. Demons aren't the only "evil" beings that have been portrayed on the show. Humans can be evil, as well. And all beings have both good and evil within them - including the Charmed Ones and the whitelighters. Sentient beings have the right to choose which path to take - whether it would involve good or evil. By magically turning the world into some Utopian happy place, the Charmed Ones, Leo and the other Avatars are robbing humanity at large the opportunity to choose which path each individual will take. And taking away one's free will is one of the worst crimes anyone can commit.

And what about the rest of humanity? What if there are individuals who don't like the idea of some magical being waving a spell over the world, turning everyone into citizens of Stepford? There is a reason why movies like The Stepford Wives and shows like Angel, which featured the Jasmine arc is considered sinister.

I can't believe that anyone would consider it okay for the Charmed Ones to assist the Avatars in inflicting their will upon the world's populace. Don't Wiccan practioners consider it wrong to use magic on other people, against their will, or without their permission?

Hunniah · 01-20-2005, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suga*Babe

That's what I thought, the way it was said further up the thread was that they were taking away free will. Riding the world of demons and taking away free will is hardly the same thing.

My thoughts, Exactly!!

well I'll say it again, don't get too Emotional

it's only a tv show!!
Charmed ones wanting to have a peaceful world does make sense, like someone else said up there, that's what all the sisters have always wanted from the beginning.. but the season haven't ended yet, who knows maybe the Avatars are really evil and are only pretending to be good.. BUT we'll find that out in later episodes

xextremex · 01-20-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizMoore30

Humanity's free will is being robbed. One of the things about good and evil is that it's all about choice. Demons aren't the only "evil" beings that have been portrayed on the show. Humans can be evil, as well. And all beings have both good and evil within them - including the Charmed Ones and the whitelighters. Sentient beings have the right to choose which path to take - whether it would involve good or evil. By magically turning the world into some Utopian happy place, the Charmed Ones, Leo and the other Avatars are robbing humanity at large the opportunity to choose which path each individual will take. And taking away one's free will is one of the worst crimes anyone can commit.

And what about the rest of humanity? What if there are individuals who don't like the idea of some magical being waving a spell over the world, turning everyone into citizens of Stepford? There is a reason why movies like The Stepford Wives and shows like Angel, which featured the Jasmine arc is considered sinister.

I can't believe that anyone would consider it okay for the Charmed Ones to assist the Avatars in inflicting their will upon the world's populace. Don't Wiccan practioners consider it wrong to use magic on other people, against their will, or without their permission?

You really have nothing good to say, do you? They aren't being 'robbed'. Hello! The humans won't even know what happened. The world has changed sooo many times. Look at Paige and Brody, the world with the evil sisters, the world full of happiness. It's constantly changing. Humans are always forgetting things. One cause of this? Demons. The Charmed Ones aren't the only people who change the world. The humans don't know demons exist, therefore no change will be noticed. It's not robbing them of anything. You need to find a better word.

Getting rid of demons would make the world BETTER for the humans. Why you don't get that, eludes me. You're not going to change anyone's opinion.

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