Joan Of Arcadia - Scene Discussion #1 : More than just pretty words and people

*Melissa · 07-17-2004, 10:45 AM

Hey everyone. This is an idea I had for a thread for awhile now, but I wanted to wait a bit to start it up, that way the UK fans could participate as well.

Anyway, the idea is this...in the episode discussion threads, I've noticed that many of you pick up on little things that I (as well as others) might have missed. I thought it might be both fun and interesting to take a scene and break it down.

Possible Discussion Points:
-What effect do the words in the scene have on you?
-How did the music fit the scene? Is there a song out there that you feel would have fit better?
-How well did the actors get their emotions across in that particular scene? Was one of the actors not up to their usual level?
-After having seen the rest of the season, when rewatching the scene, do you catch anything now that forshadowed the future?
-How well does the scene hold up when separated from the episode as a whole? Do you still get the overall idea and emotional impact?
-What about the props? Is there anything in the scene that sticks out as humorous or absolutely perfect for the scene?
-What are your overall thoughts on the scene?
-Plus whatever else you want to say, as long as it deals with the chosen scene in some way.

Ideally, I would be putting up a new scene every week for discussion. But it might take a bit to see how well you all respond. I just think it's a good way to get us through the hiatus and we can continue through the year.

Scene Discussion #1: "Yellow Boat Letter" from Jump

Video Clip Right click, save target as!

I will post my thoughts a bit later, probably tomorrow on my day off. I just wanted to get this up and running to see what you all thought of the idea.

*Melissa · 07-19-2004, 07:17 PM

Ok...I'll start off.

This scene is by far one of my favorites from the first season. I just think that everything was done right. But let me break it down...

I love the Girardi's kitchen. It's just so bright and sunny. Perfect place to have the letter read because it seems to fit the letter's imagery. Not to mention fitting for the place where Adam's world is "brightened" a bit.
As much as I love some of the other settings (such as Adam's garage or the school's rooftop) the Girardi kitchen symbolizes family and love for me.

The music was utilized well in the scene. There isn't music throughout the whole thing, which is extremely important to me. The score was good and the use of Fiona Apple's "Across the Universe" was great, starting low and building as it went along, subconsciously poking the viewer to let them know that the feelings are supposed to be swelling.

As great as the music is, I think the scene was best when there was nothing there. The actors did such a great job with the scene. The slight movements, the way Adam held the letter, the look of joy on Joan's face when she saw Adam come into the kitchen, the way Joan shook her head a bit as Adam left, as if gaining control of her own emotions. Just a great job overall.

Now I do have more to say, but why doesn't someone else give it a try. Disect the scene. Feel free to discuss anything. That's the whole idea.

*starsail* · 07-19-2004, 11:42 PM

Awesome idea Melissa! I'll try my best to come around and put in my two cents every so often. I've got the time so I'll say a little bit about this scene.

To start off, I agree with you about the Girardi kitchen, the brightness and the entire atmosphere always makes me think of love and family. All sorts of chaotic happenings of the Girardi family occur in that kitchen and it just gives off that feeling of family and warmth.

I really liked how Mrs. Girardi was the one to read the letter. It was just so much more powerful and it shows that this issue about Adam and his mother isn't just something to revolve around the connection/relationship between Adam and Joan, it's real and Adam needs to deal with it.

About the placement of the music, I think it's got a lot to do with how the scene unfolds. The audience doesn't know what the letter entails, but once we (and Adam) begin to understand that the ripples are good, the music begins, "nothing's gonna change my world".

Definitely fabulous acting from all three. The slight breaking in Mrs. Girardi's voice when she gets emotional and the tears welling up in Adam's eyes as he listens. Just perfect.

I've repeated a bit, but I hope there are some new ideas in there.

**Gabriela** · 07-25-2004, 09:48 PM

Good scene to start with and really great idea for a thread!

What i really liked about the scene was the lack of words. I mean, the main focus of the scene was the letter and there really wasn't much dialogue except for the letter.
I love all the music that the ppl at JoA use - they fit the music perfectly for each scene.
I really liked how body language played a big part in this scene rather than actual dialogue. Adam standing there apprehensively at first and you can actually see his body relax as the letter is read. The carefulness of Helen as she unfolds the letter and begins reading it. It all just made the scene emotional without even using many words.
I really like how the scene unfolded and you can kinda pinpoint this scene as when Adam becomes more a part of the Girardi family. From the moment Will says a quick goodbye and rushes out before Adam can finish (like he'd do with any family member) and then to having Helen read the letter and Adam letting Helen and Joan in on this extremely personal thing in his life.

shrams · 07-27-2004, 02:54 PM

Great idea, Melissa! I loved the little bit with Will treating Adam just like a member of the family, as Gabriela pointed out. It made me think Will has come a long way from thinking of Adam as "Space Boy". There have obviously been a lot of scenes we haven't seen where Will has had more of a chance to see Adam in a different light.

I loved how Helen so easily fell into the role of surrogate mother, and the fact that Joan realized it would be more significant if Helen read the letter. The way Adam called Joan "Jane" without seeming to think about it, the sympathetic pain in Joan's eyes, Adam's automatic politeness to Will, all added little touches that made the scene all the more warm and loving.

I may be the only one who wishes they would stop using music in every quiet scene. It seems so many shows are relying on having bits of two or three modern songs in every episode to carry the mood, as though they can't depend on the audience being able to interpret the scene without it. I know a lot of people feel the music enhances the scenes, and in some cases it's true, but it seems over-used. If it happened once every few episodes, it might have more impact. However, I did like the song, it seemed a good choice, but if an instrumental version of it were available, that might have allowed the feeling to come across without the intrusion of the words over the dialogue. It's interesting, and the mark of a truly great show, that there are different reactions to the same elements, yet most of us seem to agree that this was the most popular episode of the season.

Now that I think about it, most of my favorite scenes from JoA are the quiet ones, with few or no words spoken. The actors are all capable of conveying so much with their expression, body language, whether or not they touch another person and where...it takes a lot of restraint, I think, for a writer to allow the actors to carry the emotion of a scene without the words. It's that sort of subtlety that makes this show more compelling than so many others.

Basia17 · 07-27-2004, 09:26 PM

Great scene to start out with - this one was just so perfectly done, from start to finish.

I loved:

- How Will pulls Adam in the door and smacks him affectionately on the face, kind of like the way he did with Luke in "Bringeth it On" when they were in the kitchen making breakfast.

- How we knew all was forgiven, without any explanation, when Adam called her Jane.

- As Deborah pointed out in her recap at TWOP, how the blues, yellows, and greens in the Girardi kitchen reflected the colors described in Adam's mom's note.

- As others have said - Adam's body language, and the mixture of emotions that play across his face as he listens to Helen read the note (Chris Marquette is just awesome at stuff like that).

- Joan's body language - from her obvious pleasure at seeing Adam when he first walks in the door, to the tears of sadness and joy at the end. Like CM, Amber Tamblyn just rocks.

- The very end when Adam just whispered, "Thank you", hugged Helen, gave Joan one last grateful look, then left without saying another word. I loved that there was no big happy reunion between friends, no heart-to-heart conversation. That is something I love about this show - they do not over-explain things. They show, not tell, and they trust the viewer to be smart enough to figure it out. Like there was never any scene where Joan asks Adam why he calls her Jane and he explains it - they trust the audience to understand why and trust us to know that Joan understands why.

I actually think they use music pretty well on this show - although there are some times when I wish they would turn the volume down a bit - that is when it gets distracting. I think the louder music was used most perfectly in the last scenes in "Jump" and "Recreation" - it fit in those scenes, the words were important to the actions. I think music was used perfectly more quietly in the scene in Adam's shed in "Do the Math" and in that last scene in "No Bad Guy".

*Melissa · 08-04-2004, 10:02 AM

First off, thank you to everyone who has commented and added their thoughts and opinions. I love reading what you guys have to say. And I've been trying to respond for awhile, but it just hasn't worked out too well.

So we're trying again.

*starsail* - Great points, but I really like what you said about Helen's reading the letter. It definitely helped the moment, letting the audience focus on the letter and what it said instead of the evolving Joan/Adam relationship. It was really key that Helen, Adam's "surrogate mother" read the letter instead of Joan.

Gabriela - I definitely agree about the lack of dialogue. When you have a cast that is so adept at portraying emotions and thoughts without words, why not utilize it. I love that this show knows when to use actual dialogue and when it's best not to.

schrams - I agree with what you said on the use of music. I have seen shows that have really powerful episodes that are made much more powerful by not using music (Buffy anyone?). I also agree on the "many unseen scenes" between Will and Adam. I love that this show lets you get the feeling that a lot has happened that we weren't shown. A way to say "life continues even when you're not watching" without flat out saying it.

Basia - Great point on how the show doesn't try to overexplain things. Which is a good thing when the main subject matter is God. But they really know when to hold back. They actually give the audience credit for being fairly intelligent by not stating the obvious. They let the actors get the point across with actions instead of words.

New Scene!

"Still There" : Final scene in "Silence"
Video clip - Be sure to right click and save target as. It is a zip file!

With this one, I'd like someone else to go first. I don't want to always post my thoughts first.

So...what do you guys think of this scene? What do you think it means for the new season? Speculation only, guys...no spoilers.

**Gabriela** · 08-04-2004, 09:41 PM

Okay, first of all, I'd like to put in one last comment on the previous scene discussed. I just watched it tonight and I forgot about the first comment Joan says when she walks into the kitchen: "I don't want bran, it makes me gassy."

Sorry, but I crack up everytime I hear it...it's just such a random and totally blunt comment...

Okay, onto "still there" from Silence....

This was one of my favorite scenes out of the whole episode (and the whole season).
I really really liked the music for this scene. It was sappy, but wasn't fast and unfitting. And it didn't take center stage in the scene, which was good - like in Do The Math, the song playing while Adam and Joan kiss was fitting and it took center stage because the lyrics were describing the scene and what was happening. The music for the "still here" scene didn't do that - it left the audience up to decide what was going on, the tone of the scene, and the feelings of the characters (mainly CBG)
I think that is what I liked most about this scene: the fact that it is really up to interpretation. I remember after the finale, there was so much discussion about what the scene meant and what actions in the scene were supposed to mean. But it didn't do it in this dramatic way - it was subtle and really left me wondering and pondering over what had just happened. And it's not something where you can look at each part and figure it out - it is totally up to interpretation, at this point anyway.
The lighting was awesome in this scene, to get technical now. I liked the filter and how softened and peaceful the room looked and how the lighting created a sort of halo around Joan's bed.
Kris Lemche -

wow...what a great actor. He pulled off the scene perfectly considering how he was the only one doing anything in it. His looks were perfect. The quiet, subtle entrance, the pause and look before reaching out to touch Joan. Ahh-- the infamous touch. I have to say that I first didn't even think of it as a healing gesture when I first saw the eppie, but then came here to FF and quite a few ppl seemed to think that that's what it was. Who knows? If it was a healing touch, I love the way it was done - not dramtically.

My all-time favorite part of the scene is the look after the touch. Wow....it really was indescribable. I've heard so many different terms for that look - concern, love, disappointment, worry - and each word fits as well as the next. Kris did an amazing job, and he didn't even say a word!
At the time of the finale, I did wish that Kris would have been in the whole episode more, but I really liked how they had him come in at the end and be the God that showed he was still there with Joan. None of the gods would have worked, in my opinion. I also liked how they ended the finale w/ him and Joan as the focus. I seriously thought for a minute that they were just gonna end the scene with Joan's parents on the couch sleeping and Joan lying in the hospital bed. That would have been disappointing.
The way CBG leaves the scene is cool too - he really seems hesitant to go and as he is walking out the door, I couldn't help but wonder what he was thinking.

Overall, a really powerful scene and the perfect ending for the first season!!
Side note: I can't wait till we get our Kris Lemche back...I really hope the JoA ppl realize how great he is on the show and wonderful his scenes w/ Amber are

Sorry for the uber-long post!

sisterdebmac · 05-14-2006, 12:37 PM

Forgive me for coming so late to the party, but I wanted to add a couple of observations to the comments on Jump.

I recently read the Hart Hanson script for the ep and there are a couple of interesting differences between script and final cut. In the script, Joan actually starts to read the letter, gets a line into and says, "I can't read this." Then, she gives it to Helen to read. I like it better wihout her reading any of it, the way they cut it together in the ep.

And when Adam and Joan are listening to Helen read it and Joan touches Adam's shoulder supportively... that was NOT scripted. My guess is sometimes the actors just do what comes naturally to them and that the gesture was Amber's. And it's perfect, not just because she touches him, but because he lets her.

There are lots of little differences like that between the script and the ep. If any of you would like to read Jump and The Gift, they are available as PDFs for a $10 at scriptcity.com. I'm going to read The Gift and rewatch the ep today.

Deb

**Just Peachy.** · 05-14-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterdebmac

Forgive me for coming so late to the party, but I wanted to add a couple of observations to the comments on Jump.

I recently read the Hart Hanson script for the ep and there are a couple of interesting differences between script and final cut. In the script, Joan actually starts to read the letter, gets a line into and says, "I can't read this." Then, she gives it to Helen to read. I like it better wihout her reading any of it, the way they cut it together in the ep.

And when Adam and Joan are listening to Helen read it and Joan touches Adam's shoulder supportively... that was NOT scripted. My guess is sometimes the actors just do what comes naturally to them and that the gesture was Amber's. And it's perfect, not just because she touches him, but because he lets her.

There are lots of little differences like that between the script and the ep. If any of you would like to read Jump and The Gift, they are available as PDFs for a $10 at scriptcity.com. I'm going to read The Gift and rewatch the ep today.

Deb

Oh wow. Its great when actors add their special touch.

I too prefer it when Joan handed the letter to her Mum, I don't think there was a need to say anything as Amber had the scene just right.