Joan Of Arcadia - The 10 Commandments of Joan of Arcadia - Page 2

~*Magical*~ · 11-27-2003, 11:21 PM

Sunny: yep, I believe you are right, she is the creater and mastermind behind JOA.

[img]smilies/love.gif[/img] Jenn

**sunnykerr** · 11-28-2003, 10:24 AM

Well there you go. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I think it was a really good idea to write to commandments right from the onset. Because the show really could turn into anything, in a way. There's just so much potential for developping all the characters.

So, I think it's good to elaborate the basics from the get-go and then to stick to then. Gives the writing some kind of guiding principle which, in turn, gives the show some sort of order!

Sweetwater Gal · 11-28-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wildfire Girl:
<STRONG>
And Sweetwater, I believe that cleared up the issue we had on the TV Board about whether God possessed a person or not. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]</STRONG>

I'm hoping beyond anything logical & illogical that God (or Barbara Hall whichever comes first) will make an exception. Why oh why does Amber & Kris have to ooze so much great chemistry? I blame them mostly for me wanting CuteBoy to be a real boy...

**sunnykerr** · 11-28-2003, 01:26 PM

[img]smilies/rotfl.gif[/img]

I've just finished saying the exact same thing on the UC thread! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

Talk about great minds!

Maybe she can go like Meet Joe Black and have this one be one that God possessed... while he was in a coma or something. And then he wakes up and it's lurrrve. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

And, of course, I say this being totally in love with the idea of Adam and Joan too!

Sweetwater Gal · 11-28-2003, 01:47 PM

Great minds do think alike...

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] Sunny, I am with you on that whole Meet Joe Black scenerio!

A girl's gotta hope, y'know. Especially since, as I've mentioned on the UC thread, BHall must notice the chemistry between Kris & Amber.

In every episode (so far) that she herself has penned, which persona has remained constant? CuteBoy himself! Until BHall herself proves me wrong by writing an episode that does not have him, I am sticking onto my hope against hope that an exception will be made.

Sure that's like her going against something she created, but again, a girl can hope right? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

**sunnykerr** · 11-28-2003, 03:36 PM

Don't give her any ideas! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

I want her to go against her own creation inasmuch as she allows Cute Boy God to actually become a real boy.

I don't want her to go against it inasmuch as she pens an episode with no Cute Boy God. That would be so much worse! [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

There's got to be a way of having Cute Boy God become a real boy, memories of Joan and all...

***Wildfire Girl*** · 11-28-2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sunnykerr:
<STRONG>

In other words, Karen... I think that makes her this show's Bernie!</STRONG>

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] Thanks for putting it in terms I can understand! [img]smilies/love.gif[/img]

**sunnykerr** · 11-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Well, you know me, I'm a brat. So I couldn't resist. [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

Sweetwater Gal · 12-22-2003, 03:24 AM

Check this article out. After reading it, I've noticed a few points they've made concerning the different Gods used...

Quote:

There's no hard-and-fast formula, but an episode's final God, or "third-act God" as Hall refers to the character, tends to be much more philosophical.

That proves true in episodes like "The fire & the Wood", "Touch Move", "Death Be Not Whatever", and "St. Joan" where the Gods gave Joan the final thought.

Quote:

Hall says: The slightly kooky flight attendant is "a humorous God. The first-act God is almost always for humor."

Again, seen this in episodes like "Death be not whatever", "The Fire & the Wood", "Bringeth It On"...

So I guess the different personas in between is a little bit of both?

**sunnykerr** · 12-23-2003, 12:50 PM

Or maybe the embodiment of divine guidance. It's one thing to start off kooky to give a challenge and end up more philosophical to explain the challenge, but there's got to be something, in between, to support Joan's actions. There's got to be an intervention of God when she flounders and isn't sure which way to turn and what to do.

I guess you're right, it would have to be at least semi-philosophical, yet not completelly so. Enough to get her interested in continuing on her path, yet direct enough to light a fire under her behind when necessary.

Sweetwater Gal · 12-27-2003, 04:16 AM

Bringing this article over b/c I think it brings more insight to Barbara Hall and how she came about her whole 10 Commandments for JoA. It's from beliefnet.com

Quote:

'God's Available to All of Us'
Barbara Hall, creator of the new CBS drama 'Joan of Arcadia,' talks about her most dangerous idea

Interview by Paul O'Donnell

Barbara Hall is a novelist, a musician and a mom who in between has managed to work on some of the most successful television shows of the past two decades, from "Family Ties" to "Judging Amy." Beliefnet talked to her recently about her newest and perhaps riskiest venture, "Joan of Arcadia."

What made you want to do this show?
My longtime interest in Joan of Arc is really the jumping-off point, but I've always been interested in metaphysics and physics. I wanted to create a show in which I use the fact that I spend all my free time reading about this stuff. I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if that were just homework, research?"

From there it grew into this show about a family recovering from a tragedy and how it affects their spiritual lives, and this girl who is a modern day Joan of Arc, who hears from God in a time when that's the most unacceptable thing, when it can be used in court as evidence of insanity. I wanted to update that dilemma.

Yet on TV these days God seems more acceptable than ever.
But none of those shows identify God. If you want to do the supernatural, that's one thing, and I enjoy that genre, but we're trying to dramatize something that, from my vantage point, could be real. It's not some force, or energy, or the hellmouth�it's God.

Your Ten Commandments of "Joan of Arcadia" have become sort of famous. The first commandment is that God will never identify one religion as true.
Those rules are for my God on my show. I'm not trying to replace Moses. On our show, God can never identify a religion as being right. I don't have any more information about that than anyone else.

But you are thinking about monotheism.
Yes, monotheism indeed. It's God with a big "G," and singular.

Who are your spiritual influences?
I try to read a bit of everything, even stuff I think is illegitimate�the completely out-there stuff�and I read the serious theologians. I read St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Kathleen Norris, "The Parables of Peanuts"�which is quite a good book. I just finished "Under the Banner of Heaven," the Jon Krakauer book. I'm not trying to find a belief. I'm trying to identify the different languages in which people speak to God. So I read about reincarnation and I read Rumi, whom I love.

Did you grow up religious?
Yes, I was raised by very dogmatically religious parents. Not born again, but very strictly observed Methodist practice. My brother is a Methodist minister, and there's just clergy all over my family. Religion was part of the fabric. I went through a period of very loud, noisy rejection, and then a couple of years ago converted to Catholicism.

Who does TV cast as God?
I don't have time to watch a lot of television�it's the dilemma of the television writer. But my understanding is that God is the fixer. He loves us a lot and fixes everything. I don't see God as the fixer. We're not doing that. God works through people. He can guide. He gives Joan information.

He doesn't perform miracles?
Well, on "Joan," we define miracles as occuring within the laws of nature. We have a scene where God says, "I created the laws of physics, what kind of example would it set if I broke them?" That's a big premise.

Joan's brother is a science geek�is he there to make the connections between science and religion?
One thing I want to do is to debunk the notion that science and spirituality are natural enemies. Joseph Campbell said it's impossible to live without a mythology and it always baffled him how we live without one. But we don't. Our mythology is science�actually it's shifting now to celebrity, but we believe deeply in science. We don't realize that science is a very spiritual concept. There are aspects of it that are completely in line with spirituality. Theoretical physics to me is just the math of God. I didn't make that up�Einstein thought so.

My premise is that it's no more ridiculous to believe in God than it is to believe that there are basic forces keeping us glued to the planet. People embrace gravity because someone in a lab coat said so. It's a fascinating theory, but so is God.

Is there a larger point to Joan's interactions with God?
There is the point that God is available to everybody all the time. And a huge step into seeing God is looking for him, and that's what most people don't do. And teenagers really don't. In order to talk to a teenager today�I have a pre-teen�God would have to get her to take the iPod off. Kids don't listen. You'd really have to bust through Eminem to get to my daughter if you're God.

What's your hope for "Joan"?
My purpose is to start the discussion. I have nothing to teach or preach because I don't know. It's a huge part of my spiritual practice that God is a mystery, and there's no way I'm going to break that down. What I wanted was to create a show that would get people talking about the kind of things we're talking about. I have a feeling that people want to talk about these things. People don't have a form in which to talk about them.

Is Hollywood becoming more open to spirituality?
It's part of the dialogue more than it used to be. That's true in the country right now. I'm not sure why it is. There are a lot of theories�9/11 is one of them�but these things come in waves, and right now it's allowed. I don't think I could have sold this show even three years ago.

So are you making the network nervous?
Not yet! Every now and then there are nerves about getting too deeply into theological discussion. [I tell them] we can't do the show halfway. You cannot do a show about God and avoid talking about religion. The show won't have the courage of its convictions if it can't do that.

What about the audience? God is by nature a challenging subject. Can a TV show be successful if it challenges the status quo?
That begs a huge question, first of all that there is a status quo on religion. I reject the notion that there is a single perspective on God. Will I offend anybody? Well, there are people who spend their lives waiting to be offended, so of course they will be offended. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about being honest about how I see these things and posing the questions. The thing that may offend the most people is my saying that God is available to everyone all the time.

How about the commercial television community? A television show that tells people to take off the iPod isn't going to be popular with advertisers.
That's someone else's job. I won't say that won't happen. But we'll do the show until we can't anymore. When I did "Judging Amy," which showed a single mother who was a little abrasive and sarcastic who forgot to pick her daughter up from karate class, there was a lot of jitters about making her a bad mother. I don't care about that. I can't do a show and not make it look the way it looks to me.

briansluv · 02-28-2004, 07:25 PM

Just a bump so we can keep this thread. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Alison

Sweetwater Gal · 03-02-2004, 03:41 PM

Thanks Alison for bumping this thread. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Okay, since this season is nearly over, and I'm bored [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img], I'm going to post some insightful (and even humorous) thoughts/observation concerning Hall's 10 Commandments

Feel free to do the same [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

The 10 Commandments of Joan of Arcadia

1. God cannot directly intervene.
Guess this means that if Adam/Joan danced together, CuteBoyGod can't cut in [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Darn my UC shipper heart...
*ducks from fruit thrown by the J/A shippers* Hey, you know I'm all about, completely stupid for, Adam/Joan!

2. Good and evil exist.
So that is why they factored Iris in to the Joan/Adam relationship! A balance... j/k [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]
On a serious note: This could also explain the Will-cop storyline. Will is basically on the cusp w/ facing both good (his family life) and evil (majority of the cases he's worked on).

3. God can never identify one religion as being right.
And obviously neither can Joan. This is good. Hopefully they'll try to stay true to this commandment. However, I've noticed some inklings of Christianity, but maybe that's me...

4. The job of every human being is to fulfill his or her true nature.
Guess God forgot to tell Joan that a part of the job description is to maintain a semblence of sanity. Then again, the cynic in me also wonders what this commandment must say of the "human being" resposible for inflicting pain on others.

5. Everyone is allowed to say no to God, including Joan.
We've yet to see an episode of that happening... I'm just saying...

6. God is not bound by time -- this is a human concept.
So I guess asking God's age is pretty pointless [img]smilies/look.gif[/img]

7. God is not a person and does not possess a human personality.
[img]smilies/bawl.gif[/img] CuteBoy form... nuff said *sniff*
On a more serious note though: I've found this to be not entirely true. Remember in TF&TW when God commented on how Joan would cry over that "hideous" Titanic song. Isn't that an opinion? And isn't that a human quality? [img]smilies/look.gif[/img] Just asking...

8. God talks to everyone all the time in different ways.
*mocking Haley J. Osment* "I see God forms."
Serious note: I wonder, once Joan spills her secret to someone, will God then talk to Joan with said someone around? I think I'll take a part of this to the spoiler/spec thread.

9. God's plan is what is good for us, not what is good for Him.
[img]smilies/mischief.gif[/img] Right... It's just a bonus if it does serve Him some good [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

10. God's purpose for talking to Joan, and to everyone, is to get her (us) to recognize the interconnectedness of all things, i.e. you cannot hurt a person without hurting yourself; all of your actions have consequences; God can be found in the smallest actions; God expects us to learn and grow from all our experiences. However, the exact nature of God is a mystery, and the mystery can never be solved.

So... we're connected to everyone, everything, every action? Smallest pebble can create the biggest ripple? Domino effect? Okay... so in some way shape or form: I'm connected to Kris Lemche? [img]smilies/look.gif[/img] Sweet [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
And as for the mystery thing... I'll just take that case to "Unsolved Mysterious" or the Scooby Gang, whichever comes first.
*pulls off God's mask* [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Mr. Price?!

~~~

Okay, I tried to be serious and wanted to post thoughtful observations... I tried, I really did...

aspergian · 03-20-2004, 12:07 AM

Yeah, it's good to have a kind of "canon" as they call it, with a writers' Bible, for continuity and consistency purposes. Especially for longtime viewers who are dedicated and quick to pick up on little things. I really enjoy the show. Really.

As for:

2. Good and evil exist.

We have seen Good manifest itself in the form of a person to Joan, but not Evil yet... if that will be Satan or another "dark adversary". I think they will eventually do it but I hope not in a Touched By An Angel way (I cannot relate to that show as much and JoA has such a unique style going for it in dealing with universal themes like suffering).

7. God is not a person and does not possess a human personality.

However, God is perceived to have a human personality depending on the form he/she takes to Joan. There are several references to this... such as God telling Joan he is snippy because "snippy" is what she understands. Not because that's what he is (because he is on an omniscent, omnipotent level) but because that's how Joan perceives God on her limited, mortal level. Likewise with other mortal limitations, such as the observation that other people get impatient with grocery store clerk God while he multitasks on the phone to bag groceries and call Joan... NOT because he is an inefficient clerk, but because this is how the humans are perceiving God (and yes, that is just SO out there and hard to explain).

One of my favorite analogies is like, you know, it's like physics to a bird. A bird can experience fundamental forces like gravity and feel the wind blowing and obviously know there is a difference between flying and resting on a branch, yet it cannot explain those states as well as human beings can -- and even in that perspective, our breadth of knowledge is unimpressively miniscule compared to the omniscence (there's that word again) of God and what we have to do, like it states in the show, is to keep on growing and making choices and going on with our lives despite all the discouragement and adversity. We'll be a lot worse off if we mope and wallow in our insecurities!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]