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Old 11-09-2017, 03:38 AM
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2x05 - "Chapter Eighteen: When a Stranger Calls" Episode Discussion {November 9}

Chapter Eighteen: When A Stranger Calls
November 9th 2017
The CW




Betty receives a call from the Black Hood, who wants her to publish a mugshot of her mother, who at the time was a teen on the Southside and threatens to kill Polly unless Betty fulfills his request. Hiram invites the St. Clair's, friends of the Lodges from New York. On the Southside, Jughead attempts to stop Sweet Pea and the Serpents from blowing up the Riverdale Register office and decides to join the gang to prevent unnecessary violence from happening. Betty's next call from the Black Hood tells her to cut ties with Veronica and Jughead and she complies. At the Lodge's house, Nick St. Clair drugs Cheryl and takes her back to his hotel room and attempts to rape her but is stopped by Archie and Veronica. Betty receives a call from the Black Hood telling her to go to an abandoned house, where she'll find who the Black Hood is. Jughead and Toni sit in his trailer, where he tells her his relationship with Betty is over. Back at Betty's house, the Black Hood tells her that by telling Archie, she has broken the rules and he will now kill Polly unless she gives him the name of a "sinner" to kill, to which Betty names Nick St. Clair.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:17 AM
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We needed a thread so I started. Can a mod top please?


This episode was a bit much for me. It just felt contrived and overly cheesey in parts. And damn this show just moves so freaking fast. Like, I get whiplash from the storylines sometimes, it needs to slow down!


Betty is definitely at the forefront of the storyline now, which I don't really love because it just feels a bit too horror film for me. And I cant help but REALLY suspect Hal. He's sort of in the background but not. And he is the only person IMO that would have the real motive to call Betty and use her this way. He kept saying they were alike. He had her put the mask on and said they were the same? But at the same time it just seems way too obvious for it to be Hal? Would the show be that dumb? I didn't really blame Betty for posting the article about her mom. Alice sort of deserved it for all the crap she's said about the serpents.

The whole serpent storyline for Jughead was just so weird and over the top. The initiation was idiotic. He had to memorize some words, take care of a dog and get bitten by a toothless snake? LMAO! WHATTTT. So silly. And the ending when he was getting beaten up, was that the last stage? That was the only part that was rough. But honestly, thats a pretty easy way to become a serpent! LMAO. And his reasoning that he wanted to be like his dad and keep them under control? How does she think he's gonna be able to become the "leader"? Again, contrived. The show needs to just simplify storylines instead of trying to make things so "juicy" and shocking.

It was rough watching Betty be so mean to Veronica. She didn't have to take things as far as she did there. She could have just said she had more important things to do and leave.... But I at least appreciate the interactions in the episode..... Congrats to V for having the maturity and strength to not overreact. Archie comforting her was adorable. VA had some cute moments. I loved the make out at the party and all the little touches from Archie and her calling him archiekins again.

UGH FREAKING NICK. HE'S THE WORST. SCUM OF THE EARTH. I didnt like his stupid smarmy little face the second he walked in. TRYING TO RAPE CHERYL WHAT THE EFFING HELL. I was so glad when the girls stormed in and beat him up. I was also cheering earlier when Veronica slapped him. So glad he and Veronica never actually dated. I did like seeing Archie get jealous and protective of V though.

Betty/Archie interaction was nice but I don't really get why she was confiding in him all of a sudden. The ending scene was CRAZY how she said Nick's name. Such a dark moment. I hope this doesn't turn Betty back into dark Betty. Well, maybe I do. I wouldnt mind seeing flashes of it just so they can address her mental health. (Betty going outside at night alone, what is she thinking!?)

Then for Betty to also make Archie break up with Jughead??? Like, wtf. It's just a contrived way to pull them apart. And seeing Jughead's face. Again Archie didnt have to be so cruel. I see where he was going but he should have just said that this serpent thing is causing a divide and maybe Jughead should just take a break from everyone including Betty to not get her involved. Not that she was wanting to break up with him for a while. Like that was just too far. I felt so bad for him. But kissing Toni? REALLY? I cant. That dumb, thirsty brat. Could you not wait two minutes to hook up with him? Just. sdfdsfdsfsdfs. I know that B/J are going to get back together later and itll be a fantastic moment. The angst is gonna sorta fun to watch actually. (Their kiss earlier in the episode was super adorable btw)

Kevin/Cheryl side moments were hilarious. They are the friendship I NEED. Reggie is hilarious. Josie looked gorgeous. Wish I had more to say about these four, who continue to get the shaft.



IF I HEAR THAT LOLLIPOP SONG ONE MORE TIME I AM GOING TO LOSE IT.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:19 AM
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Thank you for the new thread!

Liked the new episode of Riverdale last night.

Alice got knocked down a peg or two. Liked seeing her have her bubble burst. She's always putting down the southside when she's from that side.

I guess the Red Circle story arc is over. Well, it was good while it lasted.

Liked seeing Fred looking back to full health.

Hiram didn't care for Alice's article one bit lol. However, I strongly believe that Hermione took great pleasure in reading it aloud. Veronica seemed offended that Alice called her dad an ex-con which he is.

Betty is in way over her head with the whole Black Hood thing. She's lying. I don't like that she's keeping secrets from everyone, and I especially didn't like how she didn't want Archie to tell anyone, particularly Veronica, who is his girlfriend.

I continue to love Jughead and Toni's developing relationship. These two just click so nicely. I like that they can understand one another, but Toni is started to catch feelings and Jug is noticing. I mean she called him juggie, it's an endearment.


I don't like Jug lying to Betty either. I don't want to say it, but the Bughead relationship is hitting bumps in the road again and again. I won't be surprised if they broke up by the end of this season. And I understand the reason why Jug is going full serpent. He wants to keep the peace between the northside and the southside, just Like FP.

Veronica's old friend Nick St. Clair is a bad influence. He's handing out drugs and criticizing Riverdale at every opportunity. He's causing trouble for Archie and Veronica, bringing up their differences. Archie seems jealous of him, and I can't say I blame him when Nick is constantly flirting and touching Veronica. Veronica is displaying more of her old behavior. Not good.

Betty's expression at everyone who did jingle jangle lol. Joise is in Reggie's lap. Melody and Valerie are cutting loose together. Nick is consuming more Jingle Jangle like there's no tomorrow. Cheryl and Kevin are rocking out on the couch, and Archie and Veronica are getting down on the dance floor. This had to be one of my favorite scenes of the night.

I know the Black Hood wanted Betty to cut Veronica out of her life(the first of many of her friends), but the words she said to Veronica were hurtful and I believe deep down she meant them even though she never wanted to voice them. I liked how V stood her ground though, but I can't see
her forgiving Betty any time soon. I don't like having these two at odds, but I knew it would happen again eventually.

Loved how Toni came to warn Jughead about pledging his loyalty to the Serpents. He respects her more for it. I strongly believe she's going to have his back. Betty calling things off with Jug could push Toni and Jug together even more.

I rather enjoyed that explosive confrontation between Veronica and Nick. She slapped the crap out of him. He insulted Archie and Hiram and Vee wasn't about to let that stand. She showed him that she's a force to be reckoned with. I can't believe Nick(the fool) had the nerve to try and force himself on her.


And just no, Betty. I can't believe she asked that of Archie. To put him in that situation is wrong on so many levels. I never thought I'd say this, but Betty was being a coward. It was a cowardly way in which she wanted to end things with Jug just to appease the Black Hood. Cooling things with Jughead should have been her job, she's his girlfriend. Not Archie.

Archie should have told Betty no. I mean this could cause problems for him and Jug's friendship. But at least he warned Betty that she and Jug may not recover from this.

Liked Hal and Hiram interacting.

Liked Fred and Hermione's moment.

Heck, I loved Alice crazy entrance to Hiram and Hermione gathering.

Still don't care for Nick after he apologized to Ronnie.

I see a Nick and Cheryl pairing, but Cheryl need to be care. Nick is sick. He spiked her drink. He proves to me time and again that he's not to be trusted.

Like Betty, Archie said some hurtful things to Jug. Deep down he meant them, but he never had any plans to voice them. I don't know why he felt the reason to throw in a lie as well. Betty wasn't agonizing over breaking up with Jug for weeks. Yep, their friendship is taking a hit after that display.

I definitely would love to believe Hiram's vision of a new eden, but we shall see.


Yeah, to the awesome duet with Joise and Veronica. Loved how Joise and Veronica caught on to Nick's act with Cheryl. Cheryl is lucking these girls care about her enough to stop her from being sexually assaulted. Nick got his just deserts at the end. Vee, Joise and Melody, and Val saw to it lol.

Are we supposed to believe that Betty and the Black Hood are one in the same? I don't know if I believe it. The Black Hood is cold and calculating. He's smart too. He knew that Betty was sharing information with Archie. Now, Nick's St. Clair is going to pay lol. I don't feel bad for the fool Nick, but his death is going to spark some suspicion. I mean only the pussycats, Vee and Archie, and Betty knew what he almost did to Cheryl.


Jug, went through an old school gang initiation. I knew that had to hurt. Getting punched over and over and then getting hit in the face with brass knuckles. Ouch. I hurt for him. Toni looked proud at Jug's strength to even get back up after enduring all that. I might be the only one, but I liked the kiss between Jug and Toni. It wasn't one-sided, Jug wanted to kiss her back.

Yes, Cheryl press charges on Nick, the creep.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:25 AM
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Im glad the red circle storyline is over and one thing I like about the show moving quick is that no storyline gets stale. I want this dumb black hood calling betty to be over now too.

I literally cheered out loud when V slapped Nick. Man I WAS SO HAPPY.

Toni and Jughead are . He still loves Betty and is using Toni 100% to get over his hurt. Its not fair to either of them. Toni shouldn't have kissed him either so soon after the break up. She was taking advantage of his vulnerable state iMO. Not a fan at all.
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Old 11-09-2017, 04:37 AM
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Thanks, Alexa, for noticing we needed a new one and starting the thread.

I need to rewatch quickly before commenting. I will be back!
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:54 AM
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This episode was a bit slow for me. I feel like all these phone calls were getting tedious and i didn't like Jughead joining the Serpents officially, but i guess he's on the inside now. That's all that matters.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:41 AM
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Thank you so much Alexa. I was hoping for someone to open it. I was too tired yesterday to come post. I'll watch the episode this afternoon.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:49 AM
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I have to say, this showrunner is great when it comes to girls/women. He goes out of his way to show the power of women and I love it. There's a lot of teens watching this show. The show is dark and definitely isn't always PG-13 but there's a consistent emphasis on the power of women. In this episode we see Nick attempting to blackmail Veronica for sex. What does she do? She beats the crap out of him and flatly refuses. Then he proceeds to drug Cheryl and attempt to force himself on her. What happens? The girls figure it out, enter the room and take turns beating the sht out of him. Lovely. Absolutely beautiful. I love the theme... women CAN and DO fight back. Women have a voice, intelligence, power within and it is all so beautiful. Love it.

That said, Betty might have indirectly put a hit on Nick. I doubt it'll happen though but you know what? He's a criminal. If the Black Hood doesn't get him, Cheryl's going to... you go, Cheryl. Again, power of women. You not only get away from your attacker but you fight back to the largest degree and press charges against that attempted rapist scum prick!

This show moves very quickly which I think is a good thing based on what happened in this episode. But yes, Archie and the Red Circle are done. Good! I kind of liked the unity with the Red Circle but overall it was pretty stupid. Glad it's over. I am also glad Archie's vigilante status is done too.

Jughead feeling like he has to fully join the Serpents gives me mixed emotions. On one hand, this is Jughead. He wants to save and protect those he loves (just like Betty, a direct parallel here) so he's going all in. On the other hand, where the heck is his father, FP? Why not consult with FP about the situation? Isn't one of the "rules" to serve/protect? The Serpents are essentially looking out for Jughead because they are loyal to his father. Why wouldn't Jughead go to his father and explain what is going on? FP could then try and handle the situation. Yes, from prison, he could go there. They have ways of communicating. I don't get why Jughead thinks this is the only way. The initiation was kind of lame, too.

Alice entertained me as usual. When she walked in dressed all sexy, initially I thought it was Cheryl just because it would be a Cheryl thing to do but when it was Alice I grinned. Loved the entrance. The actress who plays Alice is very pretty. She worked that scene to perfection. I guess we know why Alice so very clearly wants nothing to do with the South Side. Psychology is everywhere. I actually hope Alice reconnects with her past. I think she could use her past as a way to help the current situation.

I understood Betty's behavior in this one. I know some think she had other ways of handling the situation but I don't see it that way. Betty was specifically told by Black Hood not to tell her mother, father, Jughead, Veronica, or the sheriff about his calls and he threatened to kill everyone she loved if she talked. For whatever reason initially the Black Hood didn't include Archie so Betty took advantage and confided in Archie. I was glad she did. I do love the Betty/Archie friendship so it was nice getting some Betty/Archie scenes... plus, I felt a sense of relief watching Betty and Archie discussing. I honestly don't think Betty could have handled the situation without being able to talk to Archie. It was necessary. Plus, like she told Archie, the Black Hood seemed distracted... he stopped killing in general due to their interaction and she wanted to keep it going. I understood her situation.

Also... give Lili Reinhart an Emmy for tonight's episode. She was amazing as Betty. You could feel the torture, torment, literal hell Betty was going through from start to finish. Lili Reinhart was spot on in her portrayal. My heart was beating faster and faster with every phone call, every reaction, every situation.

I also understood why Betty didn't break up directly with Jughead... I doubt she could have sold the story in person. I know she put Archie in a terrible position and certainly Archie was a bit over the top given how he handled the situation (which was fueled by his anger of finding out Jughead was becoming a Serpent) but I still understood the motivation. What a heartbreaking moment.

What Betty said to Veronica was awful (but once again, I understood why she was forced to go there) and Veronica handled it like a pro. I also think Veronica understands something is going on because the next morning when they're all gathered together helping Cheryl, Betty naturally, automatically sticks up for Veronica. Veronica looked at her puzzled, like it doesn't add up given what she said to her the night before. I believe if intelligent Veronica doesn't figure it out on her own (she already knows something is off) she will very quickly find out Betty dumped her and said those terrible things because she was forced to go there.

I guess you can call me a square or whatever but I was actually completely turned off by everyone participating using that Jingle Jangle. I would have preferred seeing them chugging beers instead of Jingle Jangle. It weirded me out. My reaction was Betty's, sitting there in shock watching those idiots getting high off of the drug. I guess I'm square but that's how I felt.

The Betty/Jughead Romeo and Juliet diner scene was heartbreaking and definite foreshadowing of what was to come. Whenever a couple is comparing themselves to Romeo and Juliet it is never a good thing. The tears, fear, worry, yearning to be with each other but circumstances (Black Hood/Serpents) threatening those they love literally makes it impossible was just so sad and heartbreaking. The looks exchanged without even words demonstrated how much chemistry Lili Reinhart and Cole Sprouse have together. Chemistry was off the charts in this very convincing, powerful Betty/Jughead scene.

I also loved how clearly still very much together Veronica and Archie are. Archie was definitely protective of Veronica and jealous over the NY dude he literally didn't trust from the start. Veronica was protective and loyal as usual. They do complement each other perfectly.

The Lodges... so this is about building/property? Is that it? Hermione seemed like she still has some feelings for Fred. I get the feeling that Hermione is playing a part only because she feels she has to. I still think she's shady but overall I think she feels slightly forced into this role with Hiram.

Veronica's past in NYC was pretty crazy. Poor girl. I am so glad she got away from her past because it doesn't seem like it was at all healthy for her. She's in such a great place now even if she still has to deal with her horrible parents.

Back to he break up situation... shattered right now. I honestly didn't know it was coming this episode. Like I said, I understand why she sent Archie there even if it was an impossible situation. I thought just maybe Jughead would pick up on something being off even if Archie was convincing. The anger over the Serpents helped a lot. Still, Jughead was always good at picking up on his dad's lies, why not this situation? He's been known as the writer, the reporter, the one always finding the truth. I was hoping he'd see through this and realize all is not what it seems.

Regarding the Toni kiss at the end... sorry, but while she initiated, he was a willing participant. I also don't buy the "I am hurt over Betty" thing as an excuse even if that's the motivating factor. He is just as much responsible for the kiss as Toni is. He could have instantly rejected her but he didn't. He was kissing her back. Sorry but I cannot fully blame Toni here only. Jughead was an active participant. Now he might pull away at the beginning of the next episode, I hope he will. However, he wasn't going there at the end of this episode so the Toni hate, while justified and natural... Jughead should also be held responsible too. Not that he did anything "wrong" because he didn't. I just feel like this was two individuals mutually going there, not just one. I also dislike that rebound sort of thing even if it's a common situation.

That scene at the end with Betty putting on the hood... that sincerely freaked me out. Scary. I didn't want her to turn around! It was so eerie. That said, I have narrowed down the list of suspects... Betty’s dad Hal and her long-lost brother we know is entering the screen this season. The Black Hood's closeness to Betty suggests either one... I think the key is what the Black Hood said... Betty was told she would recognize him/her. Some would think that would rule out a brother she's supposedly never seen. But what if he is a twin? Or since they're siblings they have a bang on similar appearance? Another possibility? Black Hood is Betty's biological father. Maybe he was a Serpent or just mentally insane (we've seen the theme of mental health in the Cooper household) and was in a mental institution but got out and now he wants revenge against people close to Betty because he never got the chance to be close to her. Kind of outlandish but I think it's her brother, Hal or maybe long lost bio dad.

Dark, heartbreaking episode but the power of women theme actually took over more than anything else and I loved every minute of it.
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Old 11-09-2017, 08:25 AM
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I am going to watch tonight.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:00 AM
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I'm grateful V was there to stop C from getting raped... but V seemed sort of twisted this episode.
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Old 11-09-2017, 02:49 PM
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Good episode I love Veronica and how she was there for Cheryl. I like Toni and I want to see who the black hood is already.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:01 PM
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WHY ARE THESE EPISODES SO DARK AND DISTURBING BUT SO FREAKING GOOD
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:56 PM
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I just watched the episode, DAMN! My favourite episode of the season so far. This season is on another level in terms of darkness but I'm starting to love it. Although the show is starting to remind me of Scream a little.

Thoughts:

BARCHIE SCENES, FINALLY, my heart, I love them so much, I really hope this continues now that Bughead are on a break and Varchie seems a little off to me.

MY BERONICA HEART THO! I know I've been dying for Beronica content but that is not what I meant and yet I was just happy to get some Beronica stuff, even if it was angsty as hell, at least we got to see how much Betty loves Veronica, cause that hurt. Their reconciliation will be epic though.

Archie basically ending Bughead in the worst way possible, Bughead fans are gonna be so bad at Archie but as a Barchie shipper I'm glad it happened because I need my ship to sail.

Toni kissing Jughead did nothing for me, why aren't they going there with Cheryl/Toni, WHERE THE GAY SHIPS AT? At least that Nick dude isn't Cheryl's new love interest, I'm guessing it'll be Reggie.

Any guesses who the black hood is? Betty's dad is the only one I can think of, but they already did that with Cliff in the first season so seems overdone.

I LOVE ALICE COPPER!!!, like seriously, she's my second favourite character.

I just wanted to give Betty a hug this entire episode. PROTECT BETTY COOPER.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:58 PM
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I'm not really sure what jingle jangle is so i wasnt that offended by that. If its like pot then okay, they are teenagers. And driving beer is just like a natural occurrence for teens LOL. I dont think that would be shocking or allow Betty to go off the way she did.

I don't fully blame Toni for the kiss, but she was literally waiting around and the second he said they were over she just goes for it, which was gross to me. Jughead is to blame too, of course, but he's the one that just got dumped and is hurting. What is Toni's excuse? Again, SHE INITIATED IT. If jughead had initiated it I wouldnt be as hard on her. And I would feel the same way if the roles were reversed. It has nothing to do with their gender. I really hope jughead tells her it was a mistake and that hes not over his G/F and to back off.

Quote:
V seemed sort of twisted this episode.
How so? .

The only thing Veronica did that was sketchy at all was participating in the drugs and I think that was due to peer pressure from Nick because she was trying to impress him for her family. And everyone else participated in the drugs too except Betty. Don't really see how that makes her twisted.

Quote:
why aren't they going there with Cheryl/Toni, WHERE THE GAY SHIPS AT?
Seriously, toni/cheryl needs to happen instead.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:46 PM
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I would love Cheryl/Toni, (They would be the best hair couple of all times). but it looks like Toni and Jughead are going to be explored. I was really disappointed by that. I was hoping that they could stay friends. But no, not on the CW.

Lili was killing it. I love Betty in this episode. Her story is the most interesting to me. I like that Archie/Betty friendship is getting back on track. I don't want them to go any further, but I suspect with Archie keeping her secrets, the writing will go that way. That lollipop song will never mean the same to me . Their scenes are good. I didn't mind her not doing drugs at the party, it wouldn't make sense if she did.

The party scene has hilarious. Josie and Reggie - not hating that idea.

I want to know who the killer is. The killer said she would recognize him. I don't know who it is. I hope it's not her dad. She had to jump through so many hoops this episode.

The diner scene was so sad. Jug/Betty know they are going different directions and they couldn't do anything to stop it. Both are hiding things from each other. That moment where Jughead said I wish we could just go.. I wanted them to leave. But they had to say. Meh, I hope they aren't apart too long, I will be irritated.

Nick sucks, but I knew he would. I don't know how I feel about the drug thing. The name is stupid. But I don't think Veronica did it for her dad. I think she was recapturing her past.

Betty and Veronica aren't friends now. This I hate. Hopefully that will not last long.

Cole has the right to bear arms.. He looks good in the sleeveless shirts. He should have gone to Betty instead of taking Archie's word for it. I know she asked Archie to do this, but I am irritated because i don't want it to happen.

The initiation scene was great.

I hate the song. I am probably the only one. Did not hate the girls kicking the crap out of Nick. He deserved it.

What is up with the mask thing? Is Betty a split personality? Is she also the killer? Hmmm.

Betty gave a name.. I wish she had of said Toni...

Until next week...
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