Simon Spier

Thanks! Glad to be here

BlondieLeigh

It's not just that friendship, though, it's multiple friendships. That's where it makes it look like Haley is the issue, where every single friend of hers that moves away, she loses contact with. It doesn't fit with her character at all, imo, but that is the implication.

stlavin95

^ What other friendships did it happen to involving Haley?
Yep and plus it would have been more likely to stay without LL in the picture too.

BlondieLeigh

Peyton during the jump, it implied there wasn't much contact if any, don't remember them saying she maintained contact with Brooke, either. Same with LP when they left later on. It happening with Lindsey also establishes a pattern.

stlavin95

Peyton and Brooke were too busy in those years to keep in contact with anyone else, so I can't really blame Haley for that and LP was more about Mark's ego than anything, plus the implication that it was their fault they had fallen out of contact, not Haley.

fractured moonlight

BlondieLeigh - Peyton and Brooke didn't keep in contact either so again it's not all on Haley... Haley is not the only person in these friendships. It works both ways.

stlavin95

I think Peyton and Brooke were putting so much focus into trying to make their dreams work that their relationships/friendships suffered as an result.

BlondieLeigh

But Haley is the only one that had the same thing happen with Lindsay and then with Lucas, which establishes a pattern with her that was never really established with the others.

fractured moonlight

Why does that matter when again Haley is not the only one in these friendships? It could happen a thousand times and it still wouldn't change the fact it's not just up to Haley to keep friendships going. These friendships shouldn't be one sided with Haley doing everything to keep them going while the others and can blow her off and be too busy with their lives. Why are Peyton, Brooke, and Lindsay getting off free and clear when they also didn't keep the friendships going? Why is it just up to Haley to do this?

stlavin95

It's happened with Peyton and Brooke more than once too, so you could say the same thing for them as well.

BlondieLeigh

It didn't really happen with Peyton or Brooke anywhere near as much as it happened with Haley. I mean, even after Peyton left, they still implied she had some contact with Brooke, even if it was small (and bitter), so really all she has is Mia and all Brooke really had is Rachel, and HS stuff can be excused because no one keeps in contact with most people from HS, but even if you discount the HS ones with Haley, there's still at least three.

I never said Haley was the only one in those friendships, but she is the only one that has had numerous friendships seemingly end because of distance. That implies it is something she is doing, the amount of them. The others being a part of the friendship is true, but not a very good point when they don't have the same pattern to the same extent, because it suggests that they do make an effort with others and that they would be with Haley.

This isn't a criticism of Haley, it's a criticism of the writing, because this pattern does not fit anything that we know about her character at all. I think with LP it was bts bitterness over them leaving, with Lindsey they wanted to pretend she never existed, but they didn't think about what it would suggest about Haley and they should have because the suggestion is incredibly OOC for her, even moreso than it would have been with the others, who seem far more likely than her, imo, to let a friendship fall through the cracks because of distance. If they really couldn't get over their bitterness with LP, they should have had Haley trying to contact them (and more than once) and them only responding sporadically, and they should never have stopped referencing her being in contact with Lindsey, or at least said they had fallen out over something else or they had mutually decided to end the friendship. There were other options, but they chose the lazy one and it irritates me because Haley deserved better. The whole thing was just so plot/bitterness driven.

stlavin95

Peyton and Brooke had each other twice, Haley once in Brooke and twice in Peyton's case so they suffered for the plot/bitterness driven stuff too. Haley's not the only one that they multiple friendships end because of distance and honestly most of the time with her, the writers implied the other person was at fault.

BlondieLeigh

Peyton and Brooke didn't have each other at all, tbh. They must have had some form of contact over the time jump years for them to decide to return to town together, and after Peyton left we knew they were still in contact to some extent because if they weren't Brooke wouldn't have ever expected her to be at the wedding, especially not in an important role, and she wouldn't have been so upset/surprised when she couldn't make it - you'd kind of expect someone you had lost contact with to not show up. Bitter mentions of contact like that are still contact, at the end of the day.

I don't remember them implying it was the other person's fault with Haley at all, they just didn't acknowledge it, and they should have because Haley is the sort of person that would always make an effort even if the other person wasn't. They failed her as a character by not mentioning her continuing to attempt to contact Peyton and Brooke over the jump, and Lindsey after she left, and LP after they left because there is no way, imo, that she wouldn't. The whole thing was just so messy, and it didn't need to be, it wouldn't have killed them to add the odd reference. Fits with this show's habit of forgetting characters existed once they left town, though.

stlavin95

It's heavenly implied in the flashback episode that Peyton and Brooke weren't talking at that point at all and even in the scene in the first episode, it was obvious that they hadn't talked in ages. After LP's departure, the writers implied it was their fault those friendships fell apart because they supposedly didn't care enough about their family and friends, where as when it came to the missing years it was that Peyton/Brooke got so wrapped in chasing their dreams that their relationships suffered as a result.

BlondieLeigh

Not talking in ages and completely losing contact are different things. I have friends I haven't spoken to in ages, but I haven't lost contact with them. If they didn't still have some form of contact at that time, they wouldn't have decided to go back home together, neither would have felt like they could ask the other.

They did imply that, but I'm not talking about what they obviously implied, I'm talking about what they unintentionally implied for no good reason at all and with no thought whatsoever. Would be different if they hadn't decided to pretend Lindsey never existed, but because she did, they unintentionally suggested things about Haley's character that they never should have. I am never going to be convinced that they didn't screw Haley over when they decided to forget Lindsey existed, which is what started this conversation, so may as well drop it here.

When I was looking through gifs today I found this -


X

Haley is the Spencer Hastings of OTH (or more accurately, Spencer was the Haley of PLL). So typical of them to state a fact or correct someone in the middle of a deep, serious moment