BlondieLeigh

I wouldn't have either, and there's a part of me that feels like she did because of the way he reacted last time she didn't immediately say yes to a proposal. Even overlooking that, though, where were the trust issues? Where were their respective insecurities (her more than him because she was very clear with him about how she felt)? etc.

Slayerette89

I don’t think Peyton should have taken IHY to heart because it imo largely stemmed from Lucas’s anger and resentment over the proposal. But I hate how the writers seemed to completely take his side and portray her as being in the wrong and in need of atonement. I like the s5 angst, but I post 5.07 eps make my blood boil because Peyton’s P.O.V is all “I’m sorry. You were right. Please forgive me and take me back.” And denying Peyton a realistic point of view, as you both pointed out, just continued into s6. I wonder if there were any female writers (ones without tones of internalized misogyny that is) on the writing team because this show was so terrible at writing women.

BlondieLeigh

Yeah, the I hate you was just his anger and resentment talking, but it should have been discussed in more than a "I didn't mean it" way. It came from somewhere, and that somewhere is an issue.

The attitude of the writers is ridiculous. The vast majority of 19yos are not ready for marriage. She was not wrong to say someday, so having her apologise was ridiculous. I'm all for her stating the facts - that she didn't say no and he left her, but having her act like she was in the wrong was just dumb.

I think that's one of the reasons that the quick reunion, as much as I do love it, will always annoy me a little. He never really acknowledged his faults enough. He was too busy putting it on her. That needed discussing as well as everything else.

Slayerette89

Agreed. Lucas not owning up to his mistakes has always been a problem imo. All the way back in 1.13 when he tells her he wants to be with her he just talks about how hurt he was by her rejection and how he hid with Brooke because of that. Nowhere in that speech does he acknowledge that rebounding with her best friend two seconds after she rejected him was wrong.

And don’t get me started on this show’s obnoxious idea that ppl in their teens and early twenties are dying to get married (and have children). It like they’re really sorry women are no longer coerced by the larger society to marry and reproduce young (or at all).

TV_Fanatic90

While I always was and always will be a Leyton shipper a big problem for me was the way Lucas was written. The show started with him *In love with Peyton* she does something he doesn't like and off he goes to Brooke, cheats on her, they get back together and off to Peyton he goes. She says she's not ready to get married and off he goes once again to someone else. At the end of the series you can see how everyone grew up to be better people, but to me I don't think Lucas really grew up till he was faced with losing Peyton or the baby. If it wasn't for that I honestly think he would still be going back and forth, he was like a child who when he didn't get his way he was off to someone else. I have more to write but have to go do something so I will be back to finish this .

BlondieLeigh

I think Lucas was settled once Peyton agreed to marry him. It's like he needed it to be happy with her though, and that's not healthy. I get that some of it probably came from his Dan issues, like he needed some serious reassurance that she couldn't just leave like Dan did with Karen, but it was taken to an extreme, imo. He wanted Peyton, but he also wanted someone that could give him stability, that was stupid pre time jump because most teenage girls can't give anyone stability, and it was stupid post time jump because when she wasn't ready as soon as he was he decided to find someone who was... until Peyton was ready, anyway.

msstock87

I always thought it was dumb that they had Peyton look like the bad guy in season 5, when all she said was "someday". It's okay to not be ready for marriage at 19 years old! As much as I love these two, Lucas kind of ended up looking like a saint.

BlondieLeigh

I think that was their intention, but to me he didn't. He was such an ass to her in season 5 and despite the writers intentions, that was pretty much the way I viewed him that season. Sure, it must have hurt him when she didn't say yes, but that didn't give him any right to treat her the way he did, especially when you look at what actually happened and consider that she didn't say no, and in actual fact, he walked out on her. He ended things between them, she didn't. Then there's the whole "He's not good enough for you." comment he made while he was with Lindsey. I get that he was jealous, but that was pretty much him messing with her head and telling her even though he doesn't want her, no one else is allowed to have her.

msstock87

I hated how Lucas acted with that "hes not good enough for you comment". It was clear he was jealous but he already was trying to get Peyton to move on.

BlondieLeigh

That comment really was not a good move for him. Such an ******* move, imo. Sidenote: I love that we can openly discuss the characters flaws in this thread while still loving them. I've seen so many fandoms where you just can't do that.

Slayerette89

That comment annoyed me too. I'm glad that they at least let Peyton confront him about that. And I agree about the discussion. Talking about the things we liked is nice, but it's great to not to have to censor what we didn't either.

BlondieLeigh

Most people seem to like that comment because it showed he was jealous, and yes, the jealousy was one of the indications that he still loved her, but by making that comment he made his jealousy her problem, despite the fact that, at the end of the day, he caused his own jealousy by telling her he didn't want her when he did.

Yep, I don't feel that you can actually have a proper discussion if you can't bring up the bad stuff as well as the good stuff.

jediwands

Completely agree. Peyton did nothing wrong. It's like she was being punished for being realistic. I hated how season 5 was all about the insinuation that Peyton should have said yes, not that Lucas was immature and stupid for flipping out, thinking he could move on with someone else when he clearly still loved Peyton.

BlondieLeigh

Would have been a far better story if they had spent less time trying to imply that she was wrong and more time showing that he actually was wrong. Not in asking, but in the way he acted both straight after and in the years following.

Slayerette89

A little balance would have gone a long way. I'm not even completely unsympathetic towards Lucas's p.o.v. I don't like marriage at a young age or marriage at all, but I understand Lucas feels differently and was hurt by what he perceived to be Peyton rejecting him. I think it's stupid to drop your entire life to follow someone else, but I get that he was coming from a somewhat good place when he offered to move for Peyton and make the whole arrangement as convenient for her as possible. I can even see why he would think she's only interested in him when he moves on with someone else (though, of course, I very much disagree that that is true). However, while the writers could acknowledge all of that, they couldn't acknowledge Peyton's p.o.v. at all, which is why I ended up completely siding with her and not feeling too sorry for Lucas. For example, she's not allowed to be mad about him leaving her in that room without a word despite her "people always leave" complex. But god forbid she ever triggers Lucas's rejection complex. She has to pay for it for an entire season.