rossfangirl86

Aww, love the quote that was used on that gif-set. It fits LP perfectly.

Slayerette (sorry I don't know your name ), you make some great points about Peyton. She did romanticize music and art--probably because it kept her connected to Anna and Ellie. So she was fiercely protective of it because of what it meant to her. As for romantic relationships, she always expected people to leave because it's what she was used to. It took her a long time to believe in anything else and Lucas was the primary reason for that. And you're right, Lucas and Peyton both buried their feelings. She just didn't do it as long or as often as he did. And she did it for different reasons--because she didn't want to hurt Brooke and put that friendship above her feelings for Lucas. In s1-s3 that is.

Round #40 of the Lucas/Peyton survivor is up, please come vote.
http://www.fanforum.com/f202/lucas-p...81/index2.html

msstock87

That gifset is beautiful!

Slayerette89

LP and oth in general have some really talented art makers.

Rossfangirl86, it's ok, I don't mind . I'm Tamara. What is your name? Great points about music and art also functioning as a connection with Peyton's moms. Peyton's interactions with Lucas (and Haley) were very important for her eventually letting her guard down a bit around ppl imo. About LP and buried feeling, tbh it kinda bugged me how the writers would always torture Peyton more, while Lucas got to just have his epiphanies. It's like the narrative was punishing her for not responding to his all-consuming love immediately. Felt unfair to me, though I do acknowledge Peyton hurt Lucas a lot too and he had every reason to be protective of his heart around her.

rossfangirl86

Hi Tamara, I'm Nikki.

Once again, you make good points. I would say that her relationship with Haley also helped her open up to people. She was more honest with Haley in s1 than she was with her supposed best friend. I wouldn't say she was punished for not responding to Lucas' all consuming love in s1-s3. Honestly, I think she was called out and punished for having feelings for Lucas and for hurting Brooke in s1. Just look at the way she was treated at the end of s3 and throughout s4. It's like she was never allowed to forget that mistake. Same with Lucas really. And as a result, they both pushed their feelings aside which only made things worse in the end.

Slayerette89

Nice to officially meet you Nikki

Tbh, BP friendship to me is super dysfunctional and toxic and the beauty of PH in s1 only further highlighted that. I don’t get why the writers pretended otherwise about BP. I especially resent how only Peyton was vilified for BLP s1-mid s4 when Brooke originally went into the relationship with Lucas knowing that Peyton is extremely closed off and that there are likely mutual feelings between LP. Everybody was wrong in that triangle but I felt Peyton got treated the worst by the writers and Brooke the best. Even when Peyton was finally allowed to be mad at Brooke in s4 it was about the stupid BN sextape that came out of nowhere.

But I feel Peyton got the short end of the stick in LP too. They had a pattern with her rejecting him, him moving onto someone else (twice her best friend, which was so obnoxious of Lucas imo, but the writers literally never acknowledged that), her coming to a slow and painful realization that she loves him but him just having an epiphany.

stlavin95

I think it was a dick move for Lucas to 'move on' to Brooke in season 1 but I had no issues with him doing that in Seasons 2 and 3 because Peyton had already moved on to Jake. Also had no issues with him rebounding to Lindsay after the book signing, considering Peyton did the same thing with Julian. Peyton being the first out of LP to realise their feelings made sense to me in season 3 because she was the one who ended it and made it clear that they couldn't be together in S1.

Slayerette89

I see your point but by s5 I was really sick of Peyton always suffering longer out of the two of them. I don’t blame Lucas for moving on with Lindsay at all, but I do blame him for not apologizing better to both Peyton and Lindsay in s6 when he unwittingly realized he hurt them both.

BLP + JP was a imo such a mess in s2 and parts of s3, but I primarily blame Mark and Chopia for all the rewriting of s1 to prop BL and by extension JP. Still I really wish LP talked more about some things that happened in those seasons.

rossfangirl86

I love Lucas and Peyton equally. They both made mistakes, with each other and with other people, but I don't hold anything that happened against either of them. They're just two different people who act/react to things differently. s5 is the only time that I was annoyed with both of them. I just felt a lot of things in that season to be overplayed for the sake of drama and there were things that didn't make either character look good. Like we've discussed before, it was easier to understand Peyton's pov that season because it was written that way. They didn't show us much of Lucas' pov just to make the 5x12 reveal more shocking. But it didn't do any favors for Lucas' character or how people felt/reacted to that.

I've noticed that with this show, the characters really didn't talk about past events once a season was over. Except the BLP triangle. Everything else seemed to be irrelevant by the time the next season rolled around. Though, in s4, Lucas did acknowledge that he knew Peyton's ILY in the library was true. He was just afraid to acknowledge it because he didn't want to hurt Brooke. That was a very small moment in s4 but it was a pretty significant one. We also got an expansion on the 4x09 epiphany in s5. So I guess there were certain things that did get brought back up again, in small but important ways.

BlondieLeigh

So much this. Brooke was an awful friend before the time jump and that is hugely ignored. I hate that Peyton was vilified when Brooke likely knew how Peyton felt about Lucas and definitely knew how Lucas felt about Peyton and still went there, even going so far as to push Peyton back to Nathan, who she knew treated Peyton badly, so she could have Lucas to herself. There was an obvious attempt to make Brooke the victim in this triangle but she really wasn't, if anything she was the main cause of it - sure, Lucas and Peyton should not have cheated, but if Brooke had thought of someone other than herself and acknowledged the feelings of the other two, then the majority of the whole mess likely wouldn't have happened.

Yep, and this annoys me so much. Particularly between seasons 5/6 where there was so much they needed to discuss that we can only assume was addressed off screen. Forever going to be a little annoyed that we didn't see that. The cuteness is fine, but I really love seeing the heavy, deep, emotional stuff, and we were kind of cheated out of that.

msstock87

I have to admit, I do like Brooke, but I hated how in season one she went after Lucas knowing Peyton liked him. A real best friend wouldn't do that in my opinion. Both Lucas and Peyton made mistakes, but at least they found their way back to each other.

jediwands

Not only did Brooke go after Lucas knowing Peyton liked him, but she tried pushing Peyton back with Nathan knowing he verbally abused her and treated her like crap. How Brooke could have been that devious I will never understand. It was so gross.

rossfangirl86

Sorry for the dp.

rossfangirl86

They all played their part in what happened in s1. As a Peyton fan, I always saw her side of it and didn't think it was fair that all the blame was laid at her feet. Neither of them intentionally hurt Brooke, they just couldn't control their feelings. And Lucas would've told Brooke before the accident if Peyton hadn't asked him not to. And like you all said, Brooke seemed pretty aware of their feelings for each other in 1x08. But I don't think I would loved her if she hadn't walked away from Lucas in the end. I don't think she would've been able to live with herself if she had stayed with him and hadn't tried to repair her relationship with Brooke. As a LP fan, that scene was crushing but it was the right thing for her to do--both times. I think it also gave them a chance to grow as characters and as friends/a couple later on. When Peyton did leave that friendship in s4, I understood it because Lucas was a better friend to her at that point and Brooke wasn't treating her fairly/rightly.

Leigh, I think Mark just wanted to avoid a LP conversation about Lindsey after the way the fans reacted to s5. I think he just wanted to leave s5 in the past and let the characters move forward. It's in character for Peyton not to press Lucas but I do believe he talked to her about it at some point. They just didn't show us. At least he acknowledged that Peyton was so good to him and to them while they were apart. I like how he reacted to her past with Julian, he knew he couldn't say anything because of choices he made in the past.

Anyway, we still need more votes on the LP survivor is anyone wants to drop by. The link was posted a few days ago or you can just follow the link in my sig.

Slayerette89

About Brooke’s behavior in 1.07, I completely agree with you all of you that it was horrible. However, it actually bothers me less than Brooke’s behavior throughout the rest of the season and show, because the writers at least temporarily acknowledged it as wrong. From 1.08, the attempts to frame Brooke as a sympathetic character and a good friend, when she has been very selfish, self-serving and manipulative throughout the show (especially towards Peyton in high school years) get on my last nerve.

Truth be said, even if Peyton and BP didn’t exist, I still wouldn’t be a Brooke fan, given I find her whole character boring, annoying and uncharismatic. But maybe I would hate her a little less intensely. I would probably find is easier to just fastforward through her super!cheerleader/business woman stories with poor little rich girl and yey!(rich)girl power undertones.

Same. I actually loved those moments in s5 when they argued and said horrible things to each other without filter (her calling him insecure and questioning if his “you’re great” and “I’ll love you forever” have any meaning; him calling her selfish and accusing her of only wanting to be with him when it’s convenient for her and/or when he’s with someone else). They needed scenes like that to confront the dark aspects of their relationship and the worst thoughts they had about each other over the years.

I loved those too and I'm glad they at least wrote those scenes.

stlavin95

The rewriting of history to prop BL and JP is one of the biggest reasons why I couldn't get into both couples and Lucas was the most affected because of it IMO.

Would've been interesting to have a scene in Season 6 to see what was going on in Lucas' head in Season 5, but I doubt Mark had the writing ability to do it considering how bad of a job doing that in S5.