[brainfrz76]

Originally Posted by kobe/hil/LP fan (View Post) Exactly. I know LP fans that still watch this show but that doesnt change the fact that its not even remotely close to what it used to be quality wise. LP not being on the show doesn't change that fact.

I disagree with the blanket statements that the quality of the show has declined. The material Nathan and Haley have gotten this entire season has been the best they've had by far since season 3, in my opinion. Maybe even better. It's been deep and raw and incredibly heartfelt. I'm so grateful we got this season. I can't really speak for everything else in the show, because I don't really pay attention to it. But then again, I never have. The BLP triangle didn't interest me, just like the BJA triangle or Clay and Quinn or the million other characters that have always rotated through this show don't interest me. I personally haven't really seen a change in the way I watch the show this season compared to past seasons. But to each his own, I just wanted to put an appreciative voice out there.

As for this episode, even though Haley was really in the background, the quality of those scenes was enough for me to like the episode overall. I have no words for Joy's acting, she did so much in just those few moments. I was apprehensive about this storyline before, but I'm really liking the way this is being portrayed, how she's still trying to put on a brave face even though she's breaking on the inside.

I am blanking out the KISS scene from memory because I don't want to be scarred for life. But the rest of the Nathan and Jamie stuff was adorable. I love that Haley's two boys are looking out for her.

BJu were definitely cute, and I think Clay and Quinn would have been cute if they didn't seem so monotone and cardboardy. I dunno, I just can't get into either couple, but cheers to those who can.

Looking forward to seeing how the Haley storyline plays out!

[Moonless Night]

Personally, I don't think there are many people who would say that the quality of the show HASN'T declined. The fact that you don't think so is good for you, and I'm glad you still enjoy it. Nathan started out S7 with decent scenes, but now he's Mr. Mom, and seems to share ALL of his scenes with Jamie, who irritates me to no end.

Haley's SL's and Joy's acting has been the one solid part of this season, and I love Soph, but they've really screwed Brooke over by having the ridiculous "triangle" overshadow an infertility reveal.

I can't bring myself to care about anyone else on the show. I mean do they really think a love triangle involving Skills and Mouth is compelling? Maybe as a gag, or a sort of comedic SL. But as something serious? No.

[Helena Manning]

Originally Posted by brainfrz76 (View Post) I disagree with the blanket statements that the quality of the show has declined. The material Nathan and Haley have gotten this entire season has been the best they've had by far since season 3, in my opinion. Maybe even better. It's been deep and raw and incredibly heartfelt. I'm so grateful we got this season. I can't really speak for everything else in the show, because I don't really pay attention to it. But then again, I never have. The BLP triangle didn't interest me, just like the BJA triangle or Clay and Quinn or the million other characters that have always rotated through this show don't interest me. I personally haven't really seen a change in the way I watch the show this season compared to past seasons. But to each his own, I just wanted to put an appreciative voice out there.

Well you're pretty much making my argument. My comments were about the show as a whole, not just NH. You just said that you don't watch the show for other characters so even though NH happen to have good SL's this year by your standards, that still doesn't take the entire show into account. I've never watched the show for NH or many other SL's apart from LP, but I can say that in earlier seasons the show entertained me as a whole. As Emma pointed out, too much Mouth, Skills, Jamie, othe random characters, says all that needs to be said about this show and this episode proved that even further. It's great that Haley's getting great material or whatever but my problem is with OTH in general.

[find something real]

Well IMO, it's been this way since S5. It's nothing new to have secondary characters crowding the show and having SL's and screentime that should be given to main character. These things aren't new to S7, so the statement that 'since LP left the show has gone downhill' is merely an opinion, not a fact at all. The quality of the show started declining a long time ago, and it's not any worse now than it was last season. Which is why I stopped caring a looooong time ago about anything other than NH/Haley. The last time I enjoyed the show as a whole was like, early S3 lol.

Anyways, that last scene of Haley's made it all worth it for me, and I totally agree with this:

The material Nathan and Haley have gotten this entire season has been the best they've had by far since season 3, in my opinion. Maybe even better. It's been deep and raw and incredibly heartfelt. I'm so grateful we got this season.

[barbeegurl00]

Originally Posted by brainfrz76 (View Post) I disagree with the blanket statements that the quality of the show has declined... But to each his own, I just wanted to put an appreciative voice out there.

It is nice to hear some positive feedback, and I agree that this season is a lot better than I expected and has really improved in some aspects. End of season four and season five were just blah to me, as was a lot of season six.

People have been complaining about the excess time spent on people other than the core every year since season two. It's nothing new. I personally find the guest stars today (Victoria/Alexander/Miranda/Grubbs, etc.) a lot less annoying than some previous ones (Millie/Anna/Shelly/Gigi, etc.)

I like Haley having a personality and a life of her own for the first time in three seasons.

The makeup, wardrobe, and settings are a lot better this year than they have been recently, IMO.

Like everyone else, I feel that the show is not the way it used to be and that's sad. But honestly, it hasn't been the same to me since around season three.

[Helena Manning]

Originally Posted by carraboo (View Post) the statement that 'since LP left the show has gone downhill' is merely an opinion, not a fact at all.

No one has said anything suggesting this.

For me, the downwards spiral started during the post-strike period in S5. The beginning of S5 was magic imo because the show felt fresh with the 4 year jump, but then it fell flat really quickly. Of course everyone has their own opinions so

[Moonless Night]

Originally Posted by kobe/hil/LP fan (View Post) No one has said anything suggesting this. For me, the downwards spiral started during the post-strike period in S5. The beginning of S5 was magic imo because the show felt fresh with the 4 year jump, but then it fell flat really quickly. Of course everyone has their own opinions so

The show was very strong post-strike S5, and progressively went downhill. I'm not suggesting it only got bad when S7 started, but S7 is the lowest point for me so far.

[find something real]

LOL well maybe no one has said it here in this thread but I was referring to that general idea which yes, several people have said in the past and alluded to here.

For me the lowest by far was S6, but S4 is really when it started getting ridiculously soap-operaish. It's gotten better this season, especially in the first 7 or so episodes, and 7x14-7x18 were better than about 90% of S6 IMO as well. The other episodes this season(ie, 7x09-7x13, and most of 7x19) weren't my favorite at all. But the quality of 7x01-7x07 was really good IMO.

[diamond gothic]

^Agreed.

Let's not forget the outdoor scenes! This season rocks for that alone! LOL

I also think characters like Tay. Lydia, Alex, Clay, Sara, Miranda and even Quinn are better than past guest stars/non- original core characters, I just think they all haven't always been used to their best potential. Like Quinn with David. I think that was more interesting then having Clay/Quinn...or Clay with NHJ & Sara, or Miranda she was awesome when with Haley. It's only when these characters started going away from the core, or not supporting their stories that it's starting to get annoying. But still I would watch them over characters like Carrie or Millie or Gigi anyday.

Also this season is nowhere near as boring for me then S6 and second half of S5, plus there was the 80s ep, that alone make S7 worth it, LOL. It's my fav overall season after S1 & S3 actually.

The material Nathan and Haley have gotten this entire season has been the best they've had by far since season 3, in my opinion. Maybe even better. It's been deep and raw and incredibly heartfelt. I'm so grateful we got this season.

NH are finally getting their long overdue organic material.

As for this episode, even though Haley was really in the background, the quality of those scenes was enough for me to like the episode overall.

I agree completely. Haley's finally being treated like a main character, maybe in the background in this ep (but quality scenes and obvs they were setting up for more) but this season for her has been a godsend. Thanks writers!

[LoVeJunkie]

The show began it's decline the minute it moved onto the CW. Season 4 was a dumb soap opera that left the characters insanely OOC, everything was just overdramatic, cheesy and dumb. Season 5 was boring as all hell and the only parts I enjoyed were things ship related so I can't really be called unbiased on that. Season 6 was definitely the lowest point OTH has hit, nothing was OTH about it to me. You may think I'm just saying this because of LP but no. Everything was just awful. The characters barely interacted with eachother and I was bored out of my mind. Season 7 started out alright for me, it was definitely better than season 6. But now, I feel like Mark is trying to recreate his glory days by replicating old pairings. Now this isn't just a BL thing, I just feel really insulted as a viewer (or former viewer) that he thinks he can write the same stories with different characters and pairings and we will be satisfied. No. And it's really insulting as a fan of a couple to have moments that you love duplicated. I realize that in real life calling somebody the same name you used to call your old boyfriend might not be that big of a deal, I get that. But this isn't real life. Mark is writing for the fans who have a certain attachment to words he wrote in the past. He has to keep that in mind when he is writing dialouge for these new characters. And yes, I include Brooke, Haley and Nathan as new characters because in all honesty these are not the characters that I fell in love with.

[same old story]

I think the quality has declined, but not from S6 to S7. It's no better or worse than S5 or S6 was. Personally, I enjoy it a lot better than S5, which is my least favorite season ever, and maybe tied with S6, but only because I had Brooke/Sam in S6.

[barbeegurl00]

The show began it's decline the minute it moved onto the CW.

ITA.

[hilarie.love]

For me, the show declined after S5. or like in the middle of S5 really.

[jc4127]

Originally Posted by LoVeJunkie (View Post) The show began it's decline the minute it moved onto the CW. Season 4 was a dumb soap opera that left the characters insanely OOC, everything was just overdramatic, cheesy and dumb.

Soooooooo true. It seems like the show completely changed in season 4. I use to LOVE to watch the show and couldn't miss an episode. Then something happened in season 4 until now where the show just completely changed. I just don't enjoy it anymore and I'm only watching now because it's a force of habit. Season 4 is when everything started being disjointed and it hasn't been the same since.


Now on to Monday's episode:

Mouth/Skill/Lauren/Alex/Victoria/Miranda/Grubbs/Bartender Chase/Alex with sex tape I could care less about any of the story lines involving them. Why they choose to spend so much time on these dumb useless story lines I will never understand. I like Mouth, Skills, and Victoria I just don't think the fans care enough about them to give them so much time. They are better as secondary characters and not as people with main story lines. Who cares about Skills/Mouth/Lauren triangle. Is it even a triangle when Mouth and Lauren aren't even really involved. Then the Miranda/Grubbs story is a waste of my time and I don't even know why they felt the need to give them a story. Alex and the sex tape, BEEN there DONE that, I didn't like it in season 4 and I don't like it now. In season 4 it just came out of no where and was a major FAIL and I still don't know why it was brought up or what was the purpose because I think it was a major FAIL to all fans, NO ONE enjoyed it. But getting back to this season, I like Alex and I think Jana is a great actress. The writers aren't using Jana to her full potential, they could give her something better to work with than a stupid sex tape. They already wasted her in this stupid redo of the B/L/p triangle but with the reverse outcome. I don't even want to get started on how dumb the writers must think we are if they think we wouldn't see how they are trying to redo the dreaded triangle but with Brooke getting the guy from the needy girl that needs saving. I've said it before and I will say it again, Alex should have been matched up with Clay, they would have been a great couple. Speaking of Clay....


Clay/Quinn/FakeSara Oh how I LOVED the Sara/Clay storyline. I can't believe the writers are going to mess with it by bringing in crazy Katie. It's like they want to mess up that story so we can forget about it and fully support Clay/Quinn, sorry that is never going to happen with me. Also could Quinn go away and not come back. I don't buy the "love" between her and Clay. I don't know why the writers even went that way. I see no chemistry with her and Clay, her and Haley, actually her and anyone. Can we please bring Taylor back and ship Quinn off somewhere. The writers messed up Quinn by having her be this mean, evil person to sweet David in the beginning of this season and I haven't liked her since then.

Brooke/Julian I'm so glad the stupid triangle with Alex is over. It was stupid and dragged out too long. Everyone knew they would get back together so it was dumb to even break them up to cause "drama" between them. HELLO writers you had a great opportunity to provide drama with the infertility story line. Also recycling nicknames is not the way to make me ship this couple. But I guess I shouldn't expect anything less considering they recycled the whole triangle again.

Nathan/Jaime there were cute moments but it did drag out too much. The whole KISS rock band scene was entirely too long.

Haley the true winner of the episode. Loved her scenes and emotion. Her hiding her pain from everyone and then breaking down in the end. I also wanted to scream with joy during the Brooke/Haley scene because I was glad to see them together but I did think it was too short. I fell in love with their friendship season 3 when they were roommates and I hate that we don't get enough interaction between the two.


Overall the episode was okay, it wasn't good or great just okay. If there is a season 8 I hope we have less of the newbies and more of Brooke/Haley/Nathan.

[BrucasplusNaley]

Originally Posted by ShesHisComet (View Post) Personally, I don't think there are many people who would say that the quality of the show HASN'T declined. The fact that you don't think so is good for you, and I'm glad you still enjoy it. Nathan started out S7 with decent scenes, but now he's Mr. Mom, and seems to share ALL of his scenes with Jamie, who irritates me to no end. Haley's SL's and Joy's acting has been the one solid part of this season, and I love Soph, but they've really screwed Brooke over by having the ridiculous "triangle" overshadow an infertility reveal.

ICA with everything you said here.

And your combo is so much love.

Ships aside, I miss what this show once was. Hard.