ScarletCourt

makeitreign

tftnt

sorry about that mistake! but I'm still rooting for an annulment and abandoned Mary. lol

I'm surprised Bash is even going to war. Remember when francis went at the end of season 1 and bash didn't?

It's hard to do that with toby playing francis though. I think the writing for francis is sympathetic but Toby's acting makes him even more sympathetic. He's quite good at expressing everything the audience would imagine francis to be feeling, whereas other characters come off very one note...hard to understand and connect to

ScarletCourt

BIB1: Still might happen especially since Catherine gets wind of Monde. lol.

BIB2: That was odd, but Bash was dealing with The Darkness at the time and someone needed to be concerned about that threat.

BIB3: Toby is amazing with conveying the looks of hurt and betrayal which makes the audience feel for him.

KLynn92295

Yeah, it would be! I would literally cry with happiness. It's honestly the only thing I can think of that would cause Mary to cry. I mean, if she continues to act the way she's been, why would she cry when she finds out he no longer wants to be married? Because she is so concerned about her country? Yeah right... Lol. I can only imagine tears if she's magically regained her love for him, not to mention that if Francis storms off and tries to have sex with some random woman after Mary tells him she still loves him, it's one more way for the writers to attempt to make the audience feel sympathy for Mary while trying to make us angry at Francis. Whatever happens will not be to make Francis the victor, that I'm almost certain of.

I agree; Toby's an amazing actor and I've never once been angry with him because he's portrayed Francis in such a raw and relatable way (I suppose almost innocent?), but I still think there will be an attempt at making him look worse than Mary. I don't think it will work; I mean, most of the fanbase is disgusted with Mary at this point (Did I ever mention that someone has actually made a wanted poster for Mary that is looking for the "decent" Mary from S1? ). Anyway, I think it's safe to say a good majority will stand by him no matter what he does because right now there is a lot of rooting for team Francis.

A Hot Mess

How amazing would all this be though? I would feel nothing but joy.

Best would be that Mary confesses to Francis she still loves him and he gives her the annulment papers and acts indifferently. Not mad, not happy, just over all her bullshiit. And says something like, "I deserve to be free and happy, just like what you wanted with Conde" And then says "Goodbye, Mary Queen of Scots." To show he no longer looks at her as his Queen or wife. And he says this in a very non-bitter tone and mic drops and walks out.

That would be amazing, but..

I don't know if I can buy this with the ep description of 2x17. I still think Mary wants Conde in 2x17. But I hope I'm wrong because I can't stand Conde. Sean's acting is so one note it's almost painful for me to watch.

KLynn92295

Francis finally standing up to Mary and for once thinking of his own happiness would definitely be one of the best things to happen to the show in a long time, but it seems like anything that would benefit the show and empower a character usually doesn't happen. However, I still want to share this speculation...

Ep. 16 spec: As we already know, Mary and Conde run from the castle and try to go to Scotland. Everything will be rainbows and butterflies, and "look at me, I am a strong woman taking charge of my life!" but it will all come to a stand still when they see the woman looking at them through the woods. They will realize that it is too dangerous to continue to Scotland; it will probably be sometime later in the day, like twilight, and they decide to stay in the cabin overnight so that they can ride back to the castle in the morning. Things will get heated and since it may be their only opportunity, they will try to have sex. Mary will get anxious and will realize that it is not the smartest thing to do at that point. She will probably even realize she's "never stopped loving Francis" (as one crew member said) and once they return to the court (possibly with the help of Lola?) she will try to convince Francis of her feelings and desire to try again. Francis will have already known that Mary left with Conde and will have drafted some annulment papers (his "bold proposition"/"shocking move"). He will hand Mary the papers after she professes her love, hence why she looks after him crying, as shown in the promo. [this is the only thing I can think of that would lead Mary to cry because if she is upset about losing the alliance, I think she would be more angry than sad since her crown is even more in jeopardy] Francis will be so frustrated and angry with the entire situation that he will try to have sex with another woman; he will either not be able to go through with it or he will feel immense guilt (cue self-loathing) for it. By the end of the episode, Mary will make another 180 and go back to Conde as she sees him as her last option. This would back up the theory that she could be involved in the Amboise plot because she will now want to remove Francis from the throne and place a King (Conde?) who will continue to support Scotland with French troops. The episode will most likely end with some ominous sentence like, "We must take the French crown", which will foreshadow the plot in the next episode.

I know that there are holes in this speculation, but I thought I'd share anyway.
SO sorry for the huge post!! If it's bothersome, just ignore it.

makeitreign

I can definitely see this playing out but I think the bolded part will happen in 2.17. I don't think they can fit all of that into episode 2.16. I can see this episode ending with francis handing Mary the papers and Mary all shocked and teary eyed. And even if mary doesn't plot with Conde, she will likely tell him about francis handing her annulment papers in 2.17, and he will take it upon himself to handle Francis. So she will be indirectly responsible for what happens to Francis. I still don't think the writers will have mary actually plot against francis but it's certainly possible once francis hands her her walking papers. Since frary is dead to me, I'd rather the writers have her directly involved because that would be more interesting to me. Unfortunately, I can see a scenario where conde does something behind mary's back that Mary is blamed for. since cath suspects an affair in 2.17 and francis falls ill the same ep I can see her pointing the finger at Mary if they find out foul play was involved, but Mary will actually have known nothing about it so the audience will sympathize with her (not me) and root for francis to believe her (not me).

KLynn92295

I sincerely hope Francis rises above all this as well. In fact, my most recent post originally had a speculation for ep 17 too, but I edited it out since it was obscenely long and I figure I'll wait it out and see after this next episode if any of my spec holds up. I think you and I are thinking in the same line though. I was thinking that by ep 17, Mary will have told Conde about the annulment and he would then plot to take Francis down with General R. I don't think Laurie will make Mary a part of it because that would tarnish her perfect little protagonist.
Mary will simply think Conde is going to solve the issue but won't know that he takes it too far (I suspect he will poison Francis since it would explain his becoming ill so suddenly and apparently recovering by ep 18). I think Catherine will immediately blame Mary and confront her about it, but then she'll find out that Mary doesn't know anything about the poisoning, although she has been involved with a Bourbon (her "deep betrayal") and they will both realize one of the Bourbon brothers is behind it. At that point I fully expect Monde to either be on the line or over since Mary will magically snap out of it and go back to Francis as soon as he's in danger. I think Antoine will end up taking the blame for the plot (especially since he desires power for the house of Bourbon and Conde can achieve that if he marries Elizabeth), hence why he is no longer shown in the future episodes and why Conde appears to remain at the castle until Elizabeth proposes her marriage offer as shown in the BTS photos we've seen for 2.18 & 2.19.
P.S. I don't want Frary to happen again either as I have no faith in them anymore, but I still unfortunately see the writers playing this all out in a way that makes them "even" since they both put the other in danger via their actions. It's ridiculous, gag-worthy and in no way "even" but it just screams Reign logic to me.

drunkalice

Yeah it wouldn't make them even at all but in Reign logic it might. The fact that Francis did incredibly stupid things but his intention was to protect Mary, Catherine and the rest of the family whereas Mary's intention is to run away in the sunset with another man doesn't seem to touch anyone in the writing department.

ds44

Tftnt

mercia12591

I never want Mary near Francis ever again, she is dead to me. Francis deserves happiness so I am so rooting for an annulment, he needs to be free of this 'strong woman' *as if* and she needs to have an intimate encounter with an axe.

drunkalice

I'm so digging your annulment theory/speculation. I'd love it to be Francis asking. He obviously should, I mean it's okay for Mary to want a clean slate but then he's entitled to ask for his own, and for a family too. So it would be a win-win. Mary may need France but Francis may go full Rhett Butler in that respect and frankly I hope he will.

ScarletCourt

IRL, every King and Queen is concerned about the succession and legitimate heirs of their own body. As the leader of a Catholic nation, Francis should be concerned more about that and for Mary to consider running off with another man while still married to him, she's lucky if he's considering just an annulment. In what Renaissance nation would justification for Mary running off because she was raped work? This is not some prom queen acting out for drama on a teen soap, she is the Queen of a nation. They need her to act like one.

drunkalice

Worse, she's a queen of two nations whose child could also claim a third. I don't know, really, Mary frustrates me. Nothing she comes up with makes any sense. It's not even a question of century: Even now no husband would want a child he suspects isn't his.

makeitreign

https://twitter.com/FredGerber/statu...60444940648451

another pic showing francis lives lol it's so funny to me that they're posting these pics of francis up and about from eps after 2.17.