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#46 | |||
Passionate Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,843
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But, I've got a few hang-ups that come from being an oldest sister. There's a part of me that just has to say, "Please, tell me you wouldn't date someone like this in reall life." Just accept that it's a neuroses, like a person who can't walk under a ladder. And, I promise not to date any guys who have tortured people in the basement no matter how much they look like Robert Carlyle. The reason I hesitate to go on about Rumple here is 1) I'm long winded at the best of times and I hesitate to deliberately wear out my welcome (and, trust me, that's what's going to happen), and 2) I doubt you'll find my answer satisfactory. You have been warned. I'm hiding this in spoiler tags because, hey, just because I have to take up space, doesn't mean I don't have some ethical boundaries. Ahem, here goes on Rumple--
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#47 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 907
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God Regina really is desperate, the only way I can see her plan succeeding is if she makes Henry forget all about Emma and the Charmings, he will not thank her once it's all done. 'How can I possibly love someone who does such terrible things' that opinion will not change once he's in the Enchanted Forest.
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#48 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,318
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__________________
RumplestiltskinBelle. "Love only brought me pain. My walls were up. But you brought them down. You brought me home. You brought light into my life and chased away all the darkness" ~ Rumplestiltskin
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#49 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 33,365
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#50 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 16,560
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First: Thanks for the interview!! I'll read it
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Some movies work on this details and that's what makes them perfect, but TV shows don't, there wouldn't be enough time for it anyway So if the show (canon) tells you that a character didn't intend to kill someone/knew what he was doing or that a taser can kill wooden men then you have to go with it, eventhough it might be stupid I'm an older sister too and honestly I feel that way about Neal, I wish that my sister wouldn't go back with someone like him in real life. But this is a show, it's not real life so I get that what works in OUAT, wouldn't work out in real life About Rumple:
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__________________
"I did want to take your hand. Ben’s hand!" Kylo♥Rey #FrankensteinMonsters, #NemilyForever Thanks to Jade for the icon!! |
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#51 | |||
Absolute Fan
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,233
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I don't want to start pointing fingers at individual posters because that's really not what it's about and I think we're all aware that at the end of the day as fans most of us are slightly biased in one way or another, but in my opinion maybe the general atmosphere could be improved a little if we all tried not to insist on some of the arguments we want to make to the point of presenting them as or attempting to turn them into facts that can't or shouldn't be argued. Again, just my two cents and I'm in no way singling out certain fangroups or posters. I just think maybe this is something we could all keep in mind, even and maybe especially if things get passionate and heated around here again. __________________
but she kept her balance and opened her eyes again, Rina ↳ [Tumblr || Art || Icons] alycia debnam-carey & eliza taylor | ♥ |
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#52 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,318
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I am pretty biased about Rumplestiltskin. I see a man that was tricked by the seer and Zoso into doing what he did. I see a tragic life become even more so, it doesn't excuse things he has done, done but gives him room for redemption. I will see what the back story of Hook brings to me. Maybe I will see something better in him him. __________________
RumplestiltskinBelle. "Love only brought me pain. My walls were up. But you brought them down. You brought me home. You brought light into my life and chased away all the darkness" ~ Rumplestiltskin
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#53 | |||
Passionate Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,843
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This year, when I talk about the things I don't like with her, I start using phrases like "the writers decided" or "the people behind the show decided." What irritates me isn't so much whether she's good or bad or redeemable or not, it's that I feel she'll be whichever of those they decide works for the story this week. At this point, I feel like a lot of Regina is plot driven. The only real character justifications I can give that work for me don't sound good for her as a character. I had begun to buy her redemtion arc. Yes, I do buy her trying to change to keep Henry's affection and I could buy Charming trusting her, as far as Henry went, and even needing to rely on her to help his grandson. I could buy her reverting under her mother's influence, especially when she thought she could get what she wanted without losing Henry. I have some complaints about her being upset when people don't rush to accept her reform. I think the writers (see? I'm jumping off character motivation and onto plot purpose, and that's rarely good) thought it would make Regina more sympathetic, but it backfired for me. Retrospectively, I feel like the writers were telling me "Quick, feel sorry for her!" so that I would be more sympathetic when she fell prey to Cora (and "fell prey" is the right term, Cora was bringing her down like a wolf after a rabbit). Instead, I feel like they were telling me what to feel because they didn't have time to get there by another route. And, I feel like the way it ended--and Regina being tricked into destroying her mother through what she thought was a way to finally get her mother's love is just horrible--was there way of telling me not to think too much about what Regina did or stood by and watched while with Cora. Now, I feel like I'm supposed to be horrified that Regina will want to kill everyone to keep Henry (never mind the logic holes in that). Then, I'm supposed to feel sorry for her because this will get her captured and tortured by bad guys! Oh, no! Then, I'll be expected to be sympathetic as she joins forces with our heroes. Again. I can describe a Regina who acts this way and thinks her loyalties of the week should be taken at 100% face value--but it's not a character with much talent for logic or introspection. Quote:
Different things will sometimes irritate me in a show. I think part of what got me with Hook is that we'd had Belle shot at the end of the last episode. We'd been through a lot of emotions and events because of it--and then we had Hook saying he hadn't meant to kill her. For me, that didn't cut it. First, the story had been bringing out a lot of strong emotions building on the premise that, oh, he meant it all right. Second, his say so wasn't anywhere near strong enough to counter that. If I accept it, I accept it under the heading of "the writers want me to just accept this and didn't want to take the time to convince me." If they'd just established Hook as having fantastic aim--not with guns, it could be something else--before this, it might not irritate me as much. But, here I am consciously stepping away from the characters and looking at it as story construction--which is generally a hint that it's not working for me. |
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#54 | |||
Elite Fan
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 31,092
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I'll be the first to admit that while I love Rumple, he's not entirely innocent. He does seem to have kind of a god complex. All the people he manipulated in FTL were just pieces on a chessboard to him. The curse ripped whole families from their homes. I don't think he ever considered just how many people had to suffer just so he could find Baelfire.
But at the same time he is an intriguing character, because despite everything he's done, his main motivation is the love he has for his son, and now also for Belle. __________________
Last edited by scififan2009; 04-27-2013 at 08:01 AM |
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#55 | |||
Absolute Fan
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,228
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You have the right to hold a wrong opinion if you want, but it's still wrong. Killing someone doesn't make you a sociopath, BTW. __________________
"Oh, brilliant" - Thirteenth Doctor
"Half an hour ago I was a white-haired scotsman." - Thirteenth Doctor "I know exactly who I am. I’m The Doctor." - Thirteenth Doctor "Two hearts. One happy. One sad." - Thirteenth Doctor |
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#56 | |||
Master Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,318
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I imagine if she wasn't being the abusive cold hearted shrew that she was and acted concerned about their son and asked about him things would have ended differently.not that I'm blaming her for what happened, that would be like blaming Belle for being shot by Hook and losing her memories. You cannot blame the innocent for what happens to them, even if you know why the antagonist did what they did. __________________
RumplestiltskinBelle. "Love only brought me pain. My walls were up. But you brought them down. You brought me home. You brought light into my life and chased away all the darkness" ~ Rumplestiltskin
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#57 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 625
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U know I forgot Regina can't go back to the Enchanted Forest did she forget she was marked by Rumplestiltskin for a Rafe, just because they got rid of that Rafe doesn't mean she still isn't marked cause remember the mark on Regina's hand didn't appear until the Rafe showed up in Storybrooke and if shows up in the Enchanted Forest there's a good chance the mark will appear again.
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#58 | |||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,457
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I've been wondering if Bae might be marked for the wraith, too. That would be a big price Rumple would have to pay for his antics, should they open a portal to the EF and it blows back into the Land Without Magic through the portal. That thing has probably been trying to find a way here since Rumple marked Regina. E&A described it like a Terminator. It will not stop until it has completed it's mission. __________________
Belle, you cannot go with this... Beast. Avatar: Pomc |
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#59 | |||
Passionate Fan
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,843
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A true sociopath, for example (according to the book The Sociopath Next Door) doesn't look for love in a romantic relationship and doesn't value a spouse or lover except in terms of a possession or a thing to be used. They also don't feel remorse and lack long term planning abilities. One sociopath--nonhomicidal--when facing criminal charges for fraud and embezzlement, managed to rustle up a pro bono defense team. He had them convinced he was the innocent fall guy, blaming everything on his wife. Then, he stole his lawyers credit cards. Whatever you can say about Rumple--I'd certainly say he can feel remorse but I won't argue it here--he plans better than that. |
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#60 | |||
Fan Forum Star
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That latter one, from what I understand, is a little more complicated- virtually no one fits every single quota of a psychological condition. For example, there are about 14 common signs that a child has been abused- but children rarely fit every one of them, it's usually considered likely they've been abused if they have even half of them. Too many sociopaths go completely unchecked and uncaught for none of them to be able to have long-term planning skills (also, it's often marked as long-term REALISTIC planning, which doesn't even apply to this situation, lol). Basically, I don't think there's enough of a psychological consensus on the precise definition of a sociopath, nor is there enough consensus on Rumple's true nature according to any given viewer, to state with authority that someone is wrong for considering him as much. It's my personal opinion that Regina fits the bill much more closely than Rumple does, but others may disagree with that. __________________
What do you know of my heart, priestess?
What do you know of my sister? icon: simply_ali |
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