Spoilers - OTH S&S #358: Wow, the Four Years Just Flew. It Only Felt Like Seven Months. - Page 9

mylittleaston · 01-14-2008, 08:15 AM

I just keep wondering why Mark decided to go all the way up to Lucas saying 'I do'. I understand the dramatics and yada yada but for them to actually get that far is really difficult for me to swallow if Marks vision is LP in the end..

BrownEyes1980 · 01-14-2008, 08:46 AM

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Originally Posted by SusanXG (View Post)

I saw the pictures too. I like never use facebook, but I had to see the lovely pictures. I also noticed Sophia was there...so I assume Brooke's in the scene as well. I couldn't see any other cast members but Sophia, Michaela, Kate, and Torrey and maybe Lisa (Millicent). Paul was directing. So, I assume this is from episode 8.

Ok. Thanks for the info....Brooke, Mia, Carrie, Lindsey and maybe Millicent.... hmmm.

it's just an odd combo... and for playing pool?

I've forgotten what happens in 508 though. LOL. I think I need to check the opening to remember.

xandadiuana · 01-14-2008, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by hoydenish (View Post)

I'm really hoping for an L/L end. I just see marriage as the ultimate commitment and declaration of your love. The fact that he stood at an altar with this woman and actually says 'I do' makes it the most real for me. If he chooses Peyton after he's left at the altar and chases after Linsday, that makes Peyton his second choice in my eyes. He had every opportunity to choose her. It's not like he was clueless and didn't make a conscious choice. It's not like he's considering it but thinks Peyton may not want him and chooses Lindsay as the default. Peyton ASKS him to. And he stays with Lindsay. So he stands at that altar, declaring his life long love to Lindsay knowing full well he could be with Peyton if he so chose. That's what makes the difference IMO.

There is no question that Peyton was a great love in his past, so I think he's entitled to some confusion when she turns up again, particularly because she's giving him info. he didn't know (she WAS at his signing)....but ultimately he choses Lindsay and so I really hope L/L end up together. I think it's the best ending for Lucas' character. That said, I fully expect L/P to end together

I agree with what you said about marriage. That's what it should mean but it's not necessarily what it means when people get married. IMO Peyton is never gonna be his second choice. In the end what matters the most is the heart so he can say as many "I do's" as he wants to whoever he decides to, it doesn't prove me anything.

We don't know yet his reasons, maybe it's not gonna play out like some expect. I personally believe there's gonna be more to it than we think. I don't know if Peyton makes it clear to him that they can happen again(despite what she says in 5.08) and on top of that I don't know if he can trust them(LP) again. He can very well be in denial and scared of admiting his feelings for her no matter what she tells him and how clear she makes that she wants to be with him. While I hate this and I believe it shows his character hasn't developed at all (and I blame Mark for this, of course), I think that is the case.

Yes, he's confused about his feelings because they have a great history and she's giving him some info about their relationship, but she's also inspiring him to write again, which is great. He's also getting jealous, he's kissing her(the same day he asks Lindsey to marry him, let me add), he's not only writting again because of her, but about her...etc. It's not just some confusion, you know. This is pretty huge in my opinion.

And this: The boy saw the comet and he felt as though his life had meaning. And when it went away he waited his entire life for it to come back to him, added to all the things mentioned above, tells me it's not just some confusion about his ex cause they have history and all. He's confused because he loves her, but he's too scared to admit it. Just my opinion, of course.

hoydenish · 01-14-2008, 10:38 AM

I totally understand what you're saying. But I personally have two huge problems with the scenario. The first is that it's simply not necessary to go to the lengths of having Lucas actually say 'I Do' in this scenario. He could be confused, afraid, torn. He could choose to stay with Lindsay as his girlfriend while feeling this way but the "I Do" changes everything.

The second issue is that if this scenario IS correct, it reflects extremely poorly on Lucas. You don't marry somebody because you're afraid to take a chance with somebody else. If you do you're an arse. So I have to hope you're wrong because I would literally HATE the Lucas character if he would be willing to make a lifelong commitment and take vows before friends, family and God for any other reason than being in love and being confident that this was the woman he was going to spend the rest of his life with. And a 'hiding from his feelings' doesn't work in this scenario simply because he's been asked outright and had enough time to reflect and make a choice.

The "I Do" is what really cinches it for me. I'm not sure why Mark went there because I think it is such a defining moment. A lot of things can be explained away, but to minimize taking your wedding vows is plain wrong IMO. Therefore, the "I Do" makes anything other than Luke chasing after Linsday and being shown as a heartbroken mess unrealistic. Unless of course they do another time jump to have allowed for his heart to heal and the offscreen buildup required

dannygirl · 01-14-2008, 10:44 AM

But doesn't Lucas kissing Peyton right before or right around the same time he gets engaged to Lindsey reflect bad on his relationship/engagement/marriage with Lindsey too?

I guess I don't understand how everything that happens only makes what L/P have look bad but not what L/L have?

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoydenish (View Post)

I'm really hoping for an L/L end. I just see marriage as the ultimate commitment and declaration of your love. The fact that he stood at an altar with this woman and actually says 'I do' makes it the most real for me. If he chooses Peyton after he's left at the altar and chases after Linsday, that makes Peyton his second choice in my eyes. He had every opportunity to choose her. It's not like he was clueless and didn't make a conscious choice. It's not like he's considering it but thinks Peyton may not want him and chooses Lindsay as the default. Peyton ASKS him to. And he stays with Lindsay. So he stands at that altar, declaring his life long love to Lindsay knowing full well he could be with Peyton if he so chose. That's what makes the difference IMO.

There is no question that Peyton was a great love in his past, so I think he's entitled to some confusion when she turns up again, particularly because she's giving him info. he didn't know (she WAS at his signing)....but ultimately he choses Lindsay and so I really hope L/L end up together. I think it's the best ending for Lucas' character. That said, I fully expect L/P to end together

I agree on everything. given the way Mark is making things, making Lucas go to the altar and say "I do" to Lindsey even though Peyton asks him not to, and then chase after her when she leaves him, I really believe the best ending, the ending with the most sense for Lucas, would be LL. but I also expect LP to end together, just because that's Mark vision. but as I said a couple of days ago, he doesn't realize that he has screwed up things with LP in the eyes of a lot of people

ETA:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygirl (View Post)

But doesn't Lucas kissing Peyton right before or right around the same time he gets engaged to Lindsey reflect bad on his relationship/engagement/marriage with Lindsey too?

I guess I don't understand how everything that happens only makes what L/P have look bad but not what L/L have?

because a moment of confusion for Lucas is, according to me, understandable and does also make sense, considering how much Peyton was important to him in the past. but his last choice, the ultimate choice, is to say "I do" to Lindsey. it's not like he can't think about that. He could change his decision after the kiss, but he doesn't. that means something to me. of course Mark is gonna justify everything showing that Lucas was confused/scared/whatever. but it really isn't believable to me. He does kiss Peyton, but after that he still chooses Lindsey. I see that as LL being not perfect and having a moment of trouble when Peyton comes back, but ultimately Lucas chooses Lindsey. An LL reunion, at that point, after 5.12, makes more sense than an LP reunion. I'm not saying it's what gonna happen, because I would almost bet it won't, but even a lot of LPers aren't liking the way things are gonna be on the show, because they actually taint LP in some way.

ErinLovesOTH · 01-14-2008, 10:51 AM

Yeah the LL almost!marriage is pretty damning in my opinion. I'm really confused about the direction that Mark planned to go after 512. I just can't see LP reuniting quickly at all.

lovesophia · 01-14-2008, 10:53 AM

If Mark likes LP so much, why giving BL 2 amazing seasons full of build up and everything and then give LP half of s4, no build up, and Lucas getting married in s5, i'll never understand Mark's vision

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 10:53 AM

I sure hope that if mark is gonna reunite LP, there will be a time jump, because otherwise everything would just look ridicolous

ETA: I don't understand marl's vision either, sometimes

leytonjunkie · 01-14-2008, 10:56 AM

Keith would've said I do to Jules had she not left. And he chased after her. But Karen was the love of his life.

BrownEyes1980 · 01-14-2008, 10:58 AM

I dont even know Mark's vision for the end..... LOL.... it's funny you all do. I surely don't.

I'm just taking one day at the time with show .... maybe I'll be happy with the end, maybe I won't. It's not written in stone yet... so we'll see.

I agree with a lot of you in here. Saying "I do" to Lindsey is very telling. Peyton even tells him not to marry Lucas and he can't really be clueless that she has feelings for him and wants him back but he stills chose to go ahead and marry Lindsey.

And I stll will not comment on the LP kiss coming until I've seen the whole scenario. I just can't see Mark taking Luke ten steps back again so we'll see how that kiss goes... it could do a lot of damage to the character of Luke in my eyes or it can make me keep the respect I have gained for him again.

hoydenish · 01-14-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygirl (View Post)

But doesn't Lucas kissing Peyton right before or right around the same time he gets engaged to Lindsey reflect bad on his relationship/engagement/marriage with Lindsey too?

I guess I don't understand how everything that happens only makes what L/P have look bad but not what L/L have?

Well, as I said, it's the "I Do" that cinches it for me, and he takes those wedding vows with Lindsay not Peyton.

Everything else whether L/P or L/L could be explained IMO. As an L/P fan you can easily say he's with Linsday because he's in denial about his feelings for Peyton, or because he's afraid to take a chance with her again. As an L/L fan, you could just as easily say his actions are caused by confusion when Peyton reappeared in his life, but when she asked him to be with her he chose to stay with Lindsay. Certainly there's arguments for both sides.

But for me, and it is certainly based upon my personal views, the difference is that marriage vows are sacred. Mark did NOT need to go there. With that in mind, one of two things becomes true, either Peyton is his second choice OR Luke is an arse who would make a lifelong committment when he didn't mean it. I'm in no way saying Peyton IS his second choice, I'm just saying that if she is his first choice, than he really is a cruel and screwed up person to have stood before friends, family and God and taken wedding vows to Lindsay.

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Originally Posted by leytonjunkie (View Post)

Keith would've said I do to Jules had she not left. And he chased after her. But Karen was the love of his life.

True enough. And that would have been wrong as well. There is one huge difference though. Keith truly believed and had reconciled himself with the fact that him and Karen would never be together romantically and was making an honest try to find happiness and move on with his life. Luke KNOWS he could be with Peyton and chooses to marry Lindsay.

OneTreeHunny · 01-14-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoydenish (View Post)

I'm really hoping for an L/L end. I just see marriage as the ultimate commitment and declaration of your love. The fact that he stood at an altar with this woman and actually says 'I do' makes it the most real for me. If he chooses Peyton after he's left at the altar and chases after Linsday, that makes Peyton his second choice in my eyes. He had every opportunity to choose her. It's not like he was clueless and didn't make a conscious choice. It's not like he's considering it but thinks Peyton may not want him and chooses Lindsay as the default. Peyton ASKS him to. And he stays with Lindsay. So he stands at that altar, declaring his life long love to Lindsay knowing full well he could be with Peyton if he so chose. That's what makes the difference IMO.

There is no question that Peyton was a great love in his past, so I think he's entitled to some confusion when she turns up again, particularly because she's giving him info. he didn't know (she WAS at his signing)....but ultimately he choses Lindsay and so I really hope L/L end up together. I think it's the best ending for Lucas' character. That said, I fully expect L/P to end together

Great post, I completly agree with you. I am also hoping for a L/L ending.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 11:09 AM

I wouldn't really compare the few months (weeks?) relationship Keith had with Jules, that also turned out to be a different person that he thought, to the committed and longlasting relationship Lucas has with Lindsey. besides, when Keith went to the altar with Jules, he was pretty sure Karen was gone for him. while Lucas knows that Peyton is there and she's asking him not to marry Lindsey. It's very different

ErinLovesOTH · 01-14-2008, 11:09 AM

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Originally Posted by leytonjunkie (View Post)

Keith would've said I do to Jules had she not left. And he chased after her. But Karen was the love of his life.

Right, and there was a signficant amount of time before Keith and Karen finally got together.

It's just all going to depend on how Mark handles the aftermath of the failed wedding.