Spoilers - OTH S&S #358: Wow, the Four Years Just Flew. It Only Felt Like Seven Months. - Page 11

meli5 · 01-14-2008, 11:56 AM

It all depends on how things play out. It could be very damaging to LP or it could be not so damaging. We'll have to wait and see. It seems like sometimes Mark doesn't know what taking it too far means.

I don't think Lucas saying 'I do' is a death sentence for LP just yet. It depends on what happens before and after that'll let us decide.

I don't see Lindsey taking Lucas back...Like someone posted the other day..if he can't convince Lindsey that he isn't in love with Peyton on their wedding day, then I don't think she's ever really going to believe it. LP still make sense to me so far. The only way we're ever going to get these questions answered is if there are more episodes.

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So this is why I hate this, cause I really love his character but there's no way he's not gonna look bad in this situation. Even if he did love Lindsey more than anyone, even if she were his 'one', he still looks bad.

I agree with this. If the kiss plays out with Lucas initiating the kiss, then Lucas will look not so good. If Peyton kisses him..that's a different story. Do we even know if Lucas tells Lindsey about the kiss? That will be kind of telling, too.

If Lucas doesn't really want to be with Peyton, he doesn't have to. He shouldn't go to Peyton because Lindsey left him and he has no one else. If he wants to be with Peyton after Lindsey leaves him, then he will. If he doesn't then he won't. Peyton was his first choice for marriage and that didn't work out..so we can say that Lindsey is second choice to Peyton in that situation. It all depends on how you look at things.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 11:59 AM

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Originally Posted by gotmilk (View Post)

I don't really understand this argument. It keeps being said again and again, but why? After everything that we know happens, how will Lindsey/Lucas be a viable, sensible, and logical option as an ending? That would be completely strange to me for Lindsey to take him back after what happens in their relationship, and especially after the way their wedding falls apart. That would be damaging to Lindsey character AND damaging to Lucas's character for him to still try to go after her (after 512 when she moves back to NY) when he knows full well that she doesn't want him. And she doesn't want him because he loves Peyton. That's the reason.

she doesn't want him because she thinks he loves peyton. it's very different.
Lucas insisting it's Lindsey the one he wants and Lindsey realizing that's true, would make more sense than Lucas saying "I do", chasing after Lindsey, and then getting back with Peyton after Lindsey dumps him, in my opinion. and a lot more sense than Lucas realizing all of a sudden that he has been hiding and it's Peyton the one he wants. LL solving their problems after Lucas has to face his past and close it would make more sense than any LP ending and it wouldn't make Lucas look bad.

Sparkling_Diamond · 01-14-2008, 12:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Manu9 (View Post)

if Peyton leaves and Lucas goes after her, wouldn't that be still after he asks Lindsey not to leave him? so it doesn't change the situation. it would still be second choice to my eyes

That's what he'll have to prove. That she isn't. Plus, I want to see how Lucas asking Lindsey to stay will play out. To me it seems likes he lets her go quite easily. The only thing he basically says is that he doesn't want her to go. She refuses and he just lets her walk away. If he'd still believe they were IT, wouldn't he chase her to the end of the world and fight for her? Isn't that the normal thing to do?

I guess this is all just POV, though so it doesn't matter if we discuss this or not and I feel we're going in circles all the time, which is tedious.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 12:03 PM

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Originally Posted by meli5 (View Post)

Peyton was his first choice for marriage and that didn't work out..so we can say that Lindsey is second choice to Peyton in that situation. It all depends on how you look at things.

it's different. when he proposed to Peyton, there wasn't any Lindsey. He didn't even know her. When he says "I do" to Lindsey, there's Peyton asking him not to marry Lindsey. This time, he can choose and he chooses Lindsey.

xandadiuana · 01-14-2008, 12:04 PM

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True enough. And that would have been wrong as well. There is one huge difference though. Keith truly believed and had reconciled himself with the fact that him and Karen would never be together romantically and was making an honest try to find happiness and move on with his life. Luke KNOWS he could be with Peyton and chooses to marry Lindsay.

Again, we still don't know what Lucas knows about Peyton. Yes she asked him not to marry Lindsey, but then do we know what happened. We know nothing about LP after 5.08. What if he thinks she doesn't want him, or she doesn't really mean it?! What if he just doesn't trust her and just like Keith reaconciled himself with the fact that him and Peyton would never be together again?!
It still mekes him look bad in my opinion byt it's the same situation.

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if Peyton leaves and Lucas goes after her, wouldn't that be still after he asks Lindsey not to leave him? so it doesn't change the situation. it would still be second choice to my eyes

I don't want them to get together right away. I think no LPer wants this. We want him to take some time, and then go after her. She's not gonna get pass the "I do" so easy so he's gonna have to fight for her and prove her his love.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 12:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Sparkling_Diamond (View Post)

That's what he'll have to prove. That she isn't. Plus, I want to see how Lucas asking Lindsey to stay will play out. To me it seems likes he lets her go quite easily. The only thing he basically says is that he doesn't want her to go. She refuses and he just lets her walk away. If he'd still believe they were IT, wouldn't he chase her to the end of the world and fight for her? Isn't that the normal thing to do?

uhm, I don't know. did Peyton ever do that? chasing Lucas to the end of the world? nope. does this mean she never loved him? I don't think so. Lucas cries and begs Lindsey not to leave him, that's enough for me. anyway, we don't know what's gonna happen next, so we can't assume he will let her go so easily

gotmilk · 01-14-2008, 12:06 PM

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she doesn't want him because she thinks he loves peyton. it's very different.

Are you arguing that he's not in love with Peyton, because I think that the show pretty much going to tell us that he is. I think LP is the direction we're headed and Lindsey is right on with her assumption.

I still just don't understand what else Lucas could do to "solve his problems" with Lindsey in a way that would make her want to be with him again. He tried. He told her there was nothing going on. He told her she didn't need to be worried. He proposed to her. None of that worked. What would change her mind now? It's not about him, it's about her taking him back after all this that's happened. You say he needs to close his past, but how would she ever be convinced his past is really closed? I doubt he'd agree to never talk to Peyton ever again, so I don't see what he could do.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 12:09 PM

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Originally Posted by gotmilk (View Post)

Are you arguing that he's not in love with Peyton, because I think that the show pretty much going to tell us that he is. I think LP is the direction we're headed and Lindsey is right on with her assumption.

I'm saying that Lucas still has some confused feelings left for Peyton, but he is in love with Lindsey and chooses her. but as I said, I would almost bet Mark will play the card "Lucas was confused/scared", but I'm not gonna buy it this time. it won't make sense and it will be ridicolous in my eyes.

Sparkling_Diamond · 01-14-2008, 12:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Manu9 (View Post)

uhm, I don't know. did Peyton ever do that? chasing Lucas to the end of the world? nope. does this mean she never loved him? I don't think so. Lucas cries and begs Lindsey not to leave him, that's enough for me. anyway, we don't know what's gonna happen next, so we can't assume he will let her go so easily

The situation is a tad different no? Didn't Lucas leave her when she was asleep? He didn't really give her a chance. Yeah, a year or so later but that isn't really right, is it?

My point is just that if he feels him and Lindsey still have a chance to work out after the wedding, he would have convinced her to stay. That's just my opinion. She's his longtime gf and was to be his wife, he must have some influence on her, right? I'm sure that if he'd give everything he had to make her stay, she would. But she doesn't so I assume he didn't put enough effort in it.

Manu9 · 01-14-2008, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Sparkling_Diamond (View Post)

My point is just that if he feels him and Lindsey still have a chance to work out after the wedding, he would have convinced her to stay. That's just my opinion. She's his longtime gf and was to be his wife, he must have some influence on her, right? I'm sure that if he'd give everything he had to make her stay, she would. But she doesn't so I assume he didn't put enough effort in it.

we don't know what happens next, you're assuming she leaves for good but we don't actually know. and as I already said, if she goes for good and we get an LP ending, it will just make no sense to me and a lot of other viewers. I didn't say it won't happen. but what happens and what would make sense aren't always the same thing

ETA: Peyton could have chased after him after he leaves while she's asleep. but it looks like she doesn't. probably for the same reason why she says "someday" to his proposal.

xandadiuana · 01-14-2008, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Sparkling_Diamond (View Post)

The situation is a tad different no? Didn't Lucas leave her when she was asleep? He didn't really give her a chance. Yeah, a year or so later but that isn't really right, is it?

My point is just that if he feels him and Lindsey still have a chance to work out after the wedding, he would have convinced her to stay. That's just my opinion. She's his longtime gf and was to be his wife, he must have some influence on her, right? I'm sure that if he'd give everything he had to make her stay, she would. But she doesn't so I assume he didn't put enough effort in it.

Exactly. She's leaving because she believes he doesn't love her enough. It's not because she doesn't love him or anything. so what does he do? He doesn't go after her and try to prove her wrong. Because he loves her so much.

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ETA: Peyton could have chased after him after he leaves while she's asleep. but it looks like she doesn't. probably for the same reason why she says "someday" to his proposal.

Right. She should have chased him cause he's God on earth and so what if he left her?! Who is she to feel hurt and not go after the guy who letf her when he said he never would and knew this was always her worst fear?

LL is a different situation, you know. She's only leaving because she thinks he doesn't love her. She believes he loves his ex and she has good reasons to. So why again Lucas doesn't go after her?!

Antiquity · 01-14-2008, 12:15 PM

Are we still on this topic? Are there no new spoilers? D:

Sparkling_Diamond · 01-14-2008, 12:15 PM

It can always make sense; that just depends on the writing.

O-ow...

No, I have faith Mark can do this. I'm cheering for him LOL.

meli5 · 01-14-2008, 12:15 PM

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it's different. when he proposed to Peyton, there wasn't any Lindsey. He didn't even know her. When he says "I do" to Lindsey, there's Peyton asking him not to marry Lindsey. This time, he can choose and he chooses Lindsey.

With what little we know..I don't think it's bad that Peyton asks this of Lucas. He kissed her recently and then all of a sudden he's engaged.?! What's that about? That should be sign enough to anyone that maybe it's time to take a step back and look at what the hell is going on. If Peyton is telling Lucas that he needs to be with her instead, then I'm not going to like that...

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she doesn't want him because she thinks he loves peyton. it's very different.

She has every reason to believe that he still does..if those quotes from his book are any indication. Her belief in this is strong enough to where she calls off the wedding..so it must be pretty obvious to her, especially if she was willing to ignore everything else involving LP.

I think as of right now LL getting engaged and almost married is going to look a little ridiculous to a lot of viewers.

This situation is just too messy.

lovesophia · 01-14-2008, 12:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Antiquity (View Post)

Are we still on this topic? Are there no new spoilers? D:

Or stills