[Lecholls]

I agree that they should do more with Schmidt's family (since they said they would), and they should also talk about the whole fertility issue with Cece. It probably scares the writers to think about getting into the fertility story again because it'll force Cece to grow up. But if they don't come back to it at some point, or at least reference it some time, I'll be disappointed.

And I agree that Nick and Jess were supposed to give it a shot, and then break up. And I think that when they put them back together, they won't break them up again. Luckily for me, I love the stories when they want to be together but aren't yet. The only thing I won't be cool with is if they try to convince us that one of them has fallen in love with someone else. I really doubt that, though. Jess never said it to anyone on the show until Nick. And Nick has been in love with her since the show began. So, I think I'm gonna be okay. And I'm really looking forward to tonight.

Originally Posted by serving wench (View Post) I think the reset comments make it sound less like "We're committed to telling the story we always wanted to tell", and more like "Whoa, this season was a disaster!", and that is giving the fans a serious case of non-confidence in the writers. Because it's really an admission that they've lost control of their story.

Yes, that's the deep-down issue. If they sound unsure, we all get very nervous. I liked that the quotes in the EW article this afternoon sounded more sure and positive. It was calming.

[Newgirl78]

For me personally, there's an awful lot riding on the season 4 premiere. :-/

[Lecholls]

I didn't get to watch the episode until pretty late last night, and after I watched it, I couldn't sleep for a long time. I have felt kind of sick about it, to be honest. I smiled and laughed at Winston and Nick, I thought the ambience of being on the boat was pretty cool, and I loved the scenes with Nick and Jess doing the activities and drinking and staring at each other. But the ending wasn't satisfying to me. I felt kind of empty. The other two season finales had endings that made me cry (and great music that perfectly matched the emotion), and this one didn't. The photo on the wall and the idea of bunk beds were kind of cute, but since the character's behavior didn't completely make sense to me, it didn't hit home emotionally.

Bunk beds with Nick and Schmidt will be a funny premise. I'm sure they will have some girls over and there will be another story like "Basketsball" where they're in each other's way. But everyone living in the loft together after everything that happened in season three doesn't make sense. Jess across the hall from Nick and Schmidt? Jess bringing a guy come over? I will have a hard time buying that they're all gonna be happy, funny, breezy friends. But the truth is that the writers want to write that, so that is what they will do. It's just taking me further from understanding the characters and loving them.

Until the finale, I believed that Nick and Jess would have to get back together next season. Now I believe that it won't happen until the very end of the show (if at all). That doesn't make me feel good about New Girl. It doesn't make me feel good about past episodes I loved. It doesn't make me feel good about season four. I know that if I can become the viewer the writers seem to want (who can forget about a lot of past storylines and just live in the moment), I could enjoy season four and laugh at everything and not care. But right now I care.

Should we cling to this?:

Says Meriwether: “At the end of the day, this series is about the love story between them.”

Was it a misquote? Dd Liz change her mind? All of the writer's quotes I'm reading this morning say that it isn't about Nick and Jess-- it's about the six friends. I wish she would clarify that quote.

[Newgirl78]

I have to be honest, I think I'm done. It's not even that I'm trying to be overdramatic about it, running around saying "I'M QUITTING!!!". I just......don't enjoy it anymore. I barely recognize the characters, I actually wanted to FF almost ALL of the Nick/Jess stuff in the last 2 episodes, and the ending with the bunk beds pushed it completely into farce for me.

This isn't even reminiscent of season 1, this is taking them back WAY further than that. Jess was living in a house with Spencer, Schmidt was willing to propose to Cece when he thought she was pregnant, Cece almost got married, etc...... Where exactly are they taking us now? I actually thought Jess was kind of a B in that episode, and I kept thinking, "wow, what happened to the sweet, naive and quirky girl who was afraid her ideas about love were wrong and told Nick she wanted him to be happy?"

Not only did I always love the subtle and natural humor of this show, I really loved that I could relate to their struggles and the awkward, but sensitive ways they all approached life. What the show is now? I barely recognize it. Everything seems so forced, which I could actually live with (since hello, it's television) if I still found myself LAUGHING. But......I'm just not.

By the end of the finale, I felt like they were forcing all the characters into a show about a bunch of new college graduates going out into the world for the first time. The story they seem to want to tell just doesn't fit into the show they already started. Worse than that, I feel like the actors themselves are really disappointed in the direction, which only means less enthusiasm and more "phoning it in" in future episodes. It really hurts to read interviews from Max where he admits to being frustrated with Schmidt's character and that we haven't even HEARD Jake comment on anything about the show lately.

ETA: Also, FWIW, a friend of mine is a pretty casual tv watcher who prefers comedies that aren't really realistic or focused on plots or stories. She missed a few episodes, but sometimes will watch NG if I'm talking about a particular episode. She thought the finale was terrible and the humor was really stupid. I guess I'm confused that if they can't hold the loyal audience that's followed the storylines they've developed, and they can't bring in new fans that are just looking for a hang out comedy making them laugh, who is left?

[Lecholls]

Originally Posted by Newgirl78 (View Post) I have to be honest, I think I'm done. It's not even that I'm trying to be overdramatic about it, running around saying "I'M QUITTING!!!". I just......don't enjoy it anymore. I barely recognize the characters, I actually wanted to FF almost ALL of the Nick/Jess stuff in the last 2 episodes, and the ending with the bunk beds pushed it completely into farce for me.

How on earth did this all happen so fast? The show just totally flip-flopped. And I think your assessment way back in the fall about the Super Bowl episode screwing up season three might have been exactly spot on. Brett and Dave have said in the interviews this morning that Nick and Jess were supposed to break up after about 7-8 episodes this season, but they spent so much time and effort on the Super Bowl episode (and wanted Nick and Jess to be a couple for that episode) that it basically messed with the whole season's timeline. I am not sorry that we got to see Nick and Jess be serious and in love with each other for nineteen episodes, but the writers almost sound like they are. They really screwed up, and now they're trying to change the whole show, and I'm pretty heartbroken.

ETA: One more thing. I agree that Jess was a B in "Cruise." What was that about? I guess it helps the writers with their clean break plan, but if she hadn't shown jealousy of the captain in that one scene, I would've been convinced that she's already moved on. Boo.

[Newgirl78]

Originally Posted by Lecholls (View Post) How on earth did this all happen so fast? The show just totally flip-flopped. And I think your assessment way back in the fall about the Super Bowl episode screwing up season three might have been exactly spot on. Brett and Dave have said in the interviews this morning that Nick and Jess were supposed to break up after about 7-8 episodes this season, but they spent so much time and effort on the Super Bowl episode (and wanted Nick and Jess to be a couple for that episode) that it basically messed with the whole season's timeline. I am not sorry that we got to see Nick and Jess be serious and in love with each other for nineteen episodes, but the writers almost sound like they are. They really screwed up, and now they're trying to change the whole show, and I'm pretty heartbroken. ETA: One more thing. I agree that Jess was a B in "Cruise." What was that about? I guess it helps the writers with their clean break plan, but if she hadn't shown jealousy of the captain in that one scene, I would've been convinced that she's already moved on. Boo.

Have they not paid attention to the backlash from HIMYM?!?! Clearly they went into the season "knowing" that they wanted to do a break up. Well, when you spent the time on the Superbowl episode and you go so far past where you wanted to end up, why did you KEEP GOING? Or rather, NOT keep going with your plan to break them up. They should have either:
1. STOPPED with all the confessions and not put in the coin and "since you walked in the door" parts.
2. Just NOT BROKEN THEM UP and changed their plans to fit where the story was taking them.

For a show that likes to pretend they never have a plan, why did they feel they HAD to stick with a break up after they pushed them through the Superbowl episode and they were still going strong?

ETA: I guess the HIMYM finale aired right around the time they stopped shooting, but you'd think they could take all that to heart and NOT go spouting off at the mouth. And seriously, BRETT BAER NEEDS TO GO. What an ass! Did you guys read the Vulture article? HORRIBLE. I guess it makes sense that his 19-year-old son was the new voice of Nick Miller this season. :-/ Seriously, GO WRITE ANOTHER SHOW and stop trying to force these characters into some new idea you have. I think Liz gave them too much power when she was off dealing with the lawsuit. I really do. :-(

[Lecholls]

Well, if you're not depressed enough, listen to this podcast Alan Sepinwall and Dan Feinberg recorded today. They basically thought season three was terrible, and they have almost no hope for season four to improve at all. I wish it was easy for me to just let go.

[Newgirl78]

Originally Posted by Lecholls (View Post) Well, if you're not depressed enough, listen to this podcast Alan Sepinwall and Dan Feinberg recorded today. They basically thought season three was terrible, and they have almost no hope for season four to improve at all. I wish it was easy for me to just let go.

I didn't listen, but I can only imagine.

Where was Liz during all these interviews that B/F did? I feel like these idiots totally strong armed her into following sitcom "rules", just because they think they're more experienced. They're coming off as such pompous asses in these articles. I definitely think they stepped in and took advantage of the situation if she was missing at times this season for other reasons. :-(

I also don't feel good about Luvhe and (potentially) Philbin leaving. Even though I wasn't completely in love with Luvhe's writing this season, he was still an "original" writer who knows where the characters have been. And after that, is there going to be a mass exodus from the sinking ship? One of the articles mentioned they've had contract negotiations recently.

I'm really worried about next season, I KNOW I need to walk away now, while there's a long hiatus and it will be easier to separate myself without being dragged back in with spoilers. But it's just so HARD. I adored this show and it was so amazing when it was good. But it literally turned on itself in one scene, and now I feel like it will never be the same. I don't even feel good about how they wrote Jess in the finale, so I can't imagine how I'll feel next season.

GAH, why did they have to DO this? It's so frustrating.

I really wanted to try and understand the break up and these last few episodes, but they just FAILED to convince me of anything. The closer we got to the end scene, the more I just sat here completely dumbfounded about what they had done. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how angry I got that they even had a conversation about other dates coming over and being obnoxious about it. I mean, really? Geez, give us the summer to TRY and get over this. Please don't start in with all the crappy teenage jealousy.

I WANT TO BE OVER THIS, but I'm having a hard time.

[Lecholls]

If JJ Philbin leaves, we are doubly screwed. Dave and Brett said that she is the captain of Nick and Jess. If she's gone, the chances of them trying to write them correctly is slim. I will probably watch next season because my husband likes to watch it with me. But I guess I have four months to try to get over the bitter disappointment.

[shellben]

Silver lining - maybe if she leaves they'll go after some rom-com writers to fill the void. I just think they need some more female voices anyway. Not to sound sexist, but every time I was mad about Nick this season there was a dude involved in the script. Just sayin.

[Lecholls]

Originally Posted by shellben (View Post) Silver lining - maybe if she leaves they'll go after some rom-com writers to fill the void. I just think they need some more female voices anyway. Not to sound sexist, but every time I was mad about Nick this season there was a dude involved in the script. Just sayin.

Maybe so, but I think she is really good. I'll just hope that her pilot isn't picked up. Sorry, JJ Philbin!

I didn't know there was some kind of panel with the cast tomorrow. Maybe we should ask some serious questions.

[serving wench]

Well, I liked it. It didn't have the emotional punch of S1 or S2 finales, but I laughed a helluva lot more than in "Dance".

Agreed that Jess came off as somewhat bitchy in this ep, but assumed that is because she is in a heavy state of denial. Denial is like the coin in the writers' back pocket, as long as they've got it they can pull out Nick/Jess at any time and it's going to work. I'm kind of surprised that some people want N/J to truly work through everything and find closure though. Then it really will be over.

I don't get why the writers sound so lacking in control of their material. They act like Nick/Jess was this huge albatross, this behemoth they were conned into at the expense of the other characters. When in reality they didn't need to make it the Nick-and-Jess show, the Schmidt show and the Winston/Coach show. I think it annoys them that the Nick/Jess stuff is really special and what the audience responds to above everything else, because it means that their writing isn't enough to make the other character dynamics as special. Bruised egos.

But if they're as truly sick of Nick and Jess as they sound, it's probably for the best that they're going to "reset" and see how that works out for them next season. All I can say is, Brett and Dave- be careful what you wish for.

[Newgirl78]

I remember reading something at the beginning of the season that they really tightened up shooting this year. They weren't spending as much time letting the actors improv scenes and they were sticking to the written script more.

Well, it shows.

Clearly, it's the actors themselves that bring this show to life, not the writing. I think you're absolutely right when you say it's about bruised egos. I think this season made it glaringly obvious that maybe their writing ISN'T as good as they think it is and they were so hellbent on making themselves feel better about it, that they were unwilling to bend on the idea of breaking them up, even though the actors' characterizations were pulling them in a different direction. It's EXACTLY what happened on HIMYM.

They LOVED going with the flow and being organic.......until it wasn't about the writers anymore. They loved the attention it gave them at first, because people could say "OMG, you're show is so amazing and you must be so good if this is happening and you're doing it off the cuff at the last minute!!" Their whole philosophy came back to bite them in the ass, because the natural/organic flow of what was being shot had them gravitating towards Nick/Jess. And because that maybe WASN'T their initial intention for the show, they wanted to take back "control", so the forced in the break up. So essentially, in the first 2 seasons the actors were actually writing and telling the story, but once they made sure that it was their WRITING making it in to each episode, suddenly the show went downhill.

If there's one thing I have consistently disliked in all their interviews this years, it's this idea that these characters are real people and they're frustrated with how the season turned out. Well, YOU WRITE THE CHARACTERS!! They want it both ways. They want the characters to do what they want and flow easily like the first 2 seasons, but they don't realize that the reason that happened was because they let the actors lead. Now that they HAVE to actually WRITE good material it's not working, because clearly they're not putting enough effort in. When the actors were taking the script and running with it, the writers got LAZY. Then, after they forced a strictly adherence to the script, they suddenly realize that they actually have to WRITE GOOD MATERIAL AND TELL THE ACTORS WHAT TO DO. It's like the writers don't even know HOW to give the show direction, because all this time they weren't doing that. If you don't like what's going on, why are you not writing them differently? I have zero tolerance for them saying they aren't happy with the show being too much about Nick and Jess when THEY MADE IT THAT WAY. And you know what annoys me even more? They sure weren't complaining LAST season when it pushed their show to get all that attention after Cooler. And they certainly weren't complaining when they used it all season to keep viewers in order to get to syndication.

[Lecholls]

Originally Posted by Newgirl78 (View Post) Their whole philosophy came back to bite them in the ass, because the natural/organic flow of what was being shot had them gravitating towards Nick/Jess. And because that maybe WASN'T their initial intention for the show, they wanted to take back "control", so the forced in the break up.

I agree that the show's natural and organic flow led to Nick and Jess getting more scenes together. They were drawn to each other, and they have great chemistry. But I don't agree that the writers forced a break up. I think the break up was agreed upon by all when the relationship was beginning. The characters just can't pull off happily ever after yet, and I totally buy that 100%. I don't even have a problem with the fact that they broke up (although it was definitely written abruptly). I think some of the best parts of a TV relationship happen when they aren't officially a couple, so I was looking forward to all of the great emotions and growth that would happen after the breakup.

What I don't like one bit is how the writers seem to want to just be done with it all. I know that organically, the show will want to lead back to great Nick and Jess scenes, and I am reassured after the 'you look like you belong here' scene that Jake and Zooey still have incredible romantic chemistry. But if I keep getting the impression from the writers that they want to go against that natural flow, and push Nick and Jess apart in order to regress the characters to an even more childish state for laughs, I will be extremely unhappy. I wish Liz could come in and give us more hope, but I'm not confident that she has any clue where the characters should be taken.

[Newgirl78]

Originally Posted by Lecholls (View Post) But if I keep getting the impression from the writers that they want to go against that natural flow, and push Nick and Jess apart in order to regress the characters to an even more childish state for laughs, I will be extremely unhappy. I wish Liz could come in and give us more hope, but I'm not confident that she has any clue where the characters should be taken.

I think this is where my biggest fear lies. It sounds like they legitimately think that the problem with season 3 was the fact that they were together. So now I feel like they will want to PURPOSELY push them apart, because they'll be afraid to "mess" with the show again by letting them gravitate back together. This is where I'm uneasy sticking with the show. If I knew that this break up was part of a natural ebb and flow within their story, I'd be okay. But they're making it sound like, come hell or high water, they're going to keep these guys apart as long as humanly possible, because they don't want to have to write them together anymore.