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Old 11-25-2015, 11:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by drunkalice (View Post)
For some reason I always took it as a given that Rafael was Latino, even though Justin has to be Italian-born or half Italian based on his surname, so thanks everyone for clarifying. Being Italian I'm pretty happy with having two apparently Italian main guys here also interesting that neither of them is a mafioso or a gangster, finally.
I wasn't trying to make a social justice issue out of thin air. I'm a woman of color and have always been very cognizant of these issues. I suppose its cause Luisa is a latina actress and justin is quite dark so I just assumed he was of latino descent. Anyways dropped.

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What he did here was pretty ****ed up though. And he lived with that and played the innocent flower, which is the worst part for me.
I love Rafael, but I agree also it doesn't seem very much like him which bothers me. Rafael has always been pretty straight up about his feelings. When he was trying to manipulate Petra that was actually coming from Jane not him. I know Michael fans think his behaviour was OOC but atleast we saw him do similar things minus the violence last year.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:41 PM
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It's really hard to blame Jane for anything because she's adorable, but I can't commit to fully ship her with either guy because she seems to move on from them so easily while both are painfully stuck on her. It was only last year that she was treating Michael like she barely knew him and falling for Rafael completely, this year it's pretty much the same, only switching the two guys. We audience always understand where she's coming from, but it must be hard from Rafael and Michael's POVs.
Yes, you would have to be incredibly forgiving and patient to stay committed to Jane when she does her flip-flopping. The problem with this is that it makes her untrustworthy. How can either guy be convinced she is genuine with her feelings and will not change her mind again at some point? That's why I think the writers need to have HER do some pursuing, and convince one of them that she is settled in her decision and unwaveringly in love. Because when she says stuff like, "I'm in love with both of you" I just have a hard time believing she knows what love is. Or that she can differentiate between fluttery feelings and something real.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:43 PM
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Yes, you would have to be incredibly forgiving and patient to stay committed to Jane when she does her flip-flopping. The problem with this is that it makes her untrustworthy. How can either guy be convinced she is genuine with her feelings and will not change her mind again at some point? That's why I think the writers need to have HER do some pursuing, and convince one of them that she is settled in her decision and unwaveringly in love. Because when she says stuff like, "I'm in love with both of you" I just have a hard time believing she knows what love is. Or that she can differentiate between fluttery feelings and something real.
I think they are so caught up in the triangle that they fail to realize that they make her look bad. Atleast with Felicity, we knew who she wanted and it was pretty unwavering. It was just that Noel couldn't let go. You still had people cheering him on because of the friendship between FN, but it didn't make the girl look bad.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:57 AM
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I wasn't trying to make a social justice issue out of thin air. I'm a woman of color and have always been very cognizant of these issues. I suppose its cause Luisa is a latina actress and justin is quite dark so I just assumed he was of latino descent.
I'm sure you weren't, and yeah it's unclear. Hollywood does have a tendency to cast Latinos as Italian Americans and vice versa because God bless them, as long as they're not white Americans it's no difference to them. Hopefully we'll find out where the Solanos are from at some point.

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Didn't Raf both understand and speak Spanish in s1?
I don't remember if he can speak Spanish, but if he understands it I wouldn't be too surprised because Italian and Spanish are quite similar. It'd explain why in Monday's episode Jane thought she'd translate Alba's words but Rafael had understood just about something.

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Yes, you would have to be incredibly forgiving and patient to stay committed to Jane when she does her flip-flopping. The problem with this is that it makes her untrustworthy. How can either guy be convinced she is genuine with her feelings and will not change her mind again at some point?
Yup that's precisely the point here.
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Old 11-26-2015, 05:07 AM
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I assumed he was Latino because in S1 when he has that meal with the villanueva women, xo says something against Raf in Spanish and he proceeds to reply back to her in Spanish.

Also, the actress who play's Raf's mother is Latina, if it's offensive for an Italian to play a Latino than should it not be offensive to have a Latina play an Italian. Now, I'd be more offended if Justin/Raf were playing a white character. If it's so offensive that Justin might be playing a Latino when in fact he himself is Italian, then isn't it also offensive that Raf isn't part Jewish? Because not only is Justin Italian he's also Jewish. Imo as long as Justin is not playing a white character, than no one should be offended that he's playing a POC that might not be where he's from.

Also, my assumption came from the Solano surname begin a Spanish surname. There is also the fact that this show is based on the Venezuelan version, meaning 99.9% of the people on that show were all Latin/Venezuelan born. Yes, JTV is based in the US so you will have more American/white characters. However, my assumption was that most of the Main's would be Latino and they are, so I didn't think that Raf could possibly be Italian.

We should remember that just because ones surname might be Spanish/Italian does not mean that the person is from either of those places.
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Old 11-26-2015, 05:34 AM
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Also, the actress who play's Raf's mother is Latina, if it's offensive for an Italian to play a Latino than should it not be offensive to have a Latina play an Italian.
Not the same thing at all. Italian and Spanish people are for the most part White Europeans. South American people aren't. It's especially problematic in the context of historical colonisation of those countries too. My mother's side of my family is Spanish and especially in the older generation there tends to be a distinctly racist undertone at how they view the Spanish culture of South America to the one in Spain.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:52 AM
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It's funny my parents are from Greece and my name is Maria and people always assume I am Latina lol. Or at least when I was growing up in CA. One guy kept asking why my folks gave me a Spanish name when it's a popular Greek name. It's really hard to tell
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:07 PM
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Thanks for the discussion.
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:49 PM
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When Rafael had dinner with Jane's family..i'm pretty sure she taught him a few phrases which was why he understood.

This time around at Black Friday - it's been many months. Seems like he comes and goes from the family house frequently. I assumed he's just picked up a better understanding of the language?
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:18 AM
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In S1, Rafael understood and spoke Spanish a couple times, once while at dinner with Jane's family. So I'm pretty sure he's fluent. That doesn't necessarily mean he's supposed to be Latino. It could just speak to his education, the fact that they live in Miami, and the family business' connections in Mexico and South America.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:16 PM
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When Rafael had dinner with Jane's family..i'm pretty sure she taught him a few phrases which was why he understood.
Except what Xo said isn't something Jane would have taught him.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:48 AM
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Except what Xo said isn't something Jane would have taught him.
i never thought too much about it..haha
but the look they exchanged made me think she had prepped him. i'm curious now. someone should tweet Justin and ask!!
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:17 PM
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In S1, Rafael understood and spoke Spanish a couple times, once while at dinner with Jane's family. So I'm pretty sure he's fluent. That doesn't necessarily mean he's supposed to be Latino. It could just speak to his education, the fact that they live in Miami, and the family business' connections in Mexico and South America.
Exactly
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Roxy87 (View Post)
In S1, Rafael understood and spoke Spanish a couple times, once while at dinner with Jane's family. So I'm pretty sure he's fluent. That doesn't necessarily mean he's supposed to be Latino. It could just speak to his education, the fact that they live in Miami, and the family business' connections in Mexico and South America.
All valid points.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:26 AM
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I think we need clarification.
He could have understood Spanish for growing up in Miami
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