[thackery]

Ohhh okay my mistake, yeah that's true. Except for the Mark and Callie bit. And Bailey, but they've only had minor little scenes with her. She seems to be really isolated at the moment.

[Cristofle]

MerDer isn't exactly my ship at the moment and I'm certainly not saying they never did anything wrong- I happen to think prom sex was Meredith's most morally ambiguous moment- the frustation comes from every time I, and I see it happen to other Meredith/Derek/MerDer fans, voice dislike or disapproval of a Gizzie situation or spoiler, there's this attitude like we can't POSSIBLY feel that way, because of an S2 incident. It's taking a discussion about a storyline and making it a confrontation about the FAN. MerDer fans should be allowed to dislike Gizzie, should be allowed to think the two situations are different, without CONSTANTLY having their fandom thrown in their faces. Can Gizzie be defended in NO other way except slamming MerDer and bringing up an S2 storyline?

I'll have to see more of the Cristina/Izzie confrontation to know where Cristina is coming from, but I didn't necessarily get that out of the sneak peek. Izzie pushed the judgment, by demanding understanding Cristina doesn't have to give to her. They are not friends the way Cristina and Meredith are friends, and Cristina doesn't have to love her the way she loves Meredith. And the thing is, Meredith never really tried to defend herself about the prom sex with Derek to Cristina. She was never saying "I never wanted to hurt Addison." In fact, Cristina downplayed it by saying "He's with Addison" and Meredith corrected her by making it as bad as it was "He's MARRIED to Addison." Cristina has seen the way Izzie has treated Callie from Day One- I can't blame her for being skeptical that Izzie is sorry she hurt Callie. *I* am skeptical that Izzie is sorry she hurt Callie, lol. If Izzie would say "I was wrong and there's no excuse" or hey, even say "I'm in love with him and that's that", Cristina might have more respect for her. I think it's the way Izzie is approaching it as much as the act itself that sets Cristina off, and it's why Cristina and Izzie are not particularly close of their own accord. They clash.

As for Cristina/Callie, they make a much more likely friend pair than Cristina/Izzie to me. I'd like to see that evolve- without taking away from Meredith/Cristina, of course. The true love story of the show

[infinite sadness]

Mer/Cristina totally are the true love story of the show. They're the only stable, consistent, unconditional love there is. If there are soulmates on this show, it's them.

[gotmilk]

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post) I think Cristina simply isn't very fond of Izzie in general. Meredith is what connects them, and to a certain extent in their intern year, the fact that they were part of the same group. If Meredith hadn't campaigned to protect Izzie post Denny, I doubt it ever would have occured to Cristina to do so- every time Cristina defended Izzie, it was with Meredith's direct or indirect promptings. If they were just two women in random work circumstances, I doubt they'd ever have become friends without Meredith there to bridge it. Izzie isn't Cristina's 'type' friendship or any kind of human companionship wise, so to speak. Cristina has repeatedly been shown getting more aggravated with Izzie over her choices than some others (and I might add that Izzie has returned the favor- Izzie was the harshest without any kind of cause post tremorgate, despite being the only one not affected at all- she was on probation, she wouldn't have gotten any of those surgeries anyway, and it's not like George where it was his father, nor did Izzie seem to give a crap about the George's father angle). Cristina and Izzie, simply put, clash. They would not be friends if they weren't connected via the intern group and Meredith. On either side, I don't think. Izzie just takes things more personally than Cristina, so whereas Cristina wouldn't give a crap if she thought Izzie was cutting her out of a friendship circle, Izzie gets pissy. To sum it up, I think that preview highlights the kind of friends that Cristina and Izzie really are NOT. I don't really think they like each other deep down. They're the least connected of the group, really. Them and George/Alex, I guess. Maybe even less than those two. George/Alex have a love/hate thing going on, lol. Cristina/Izzie have a 'tolerate/annoyance/fury' thing going on.

I completely agree with that. I never even thought about that much; how they all connect to each other. Same with George too. Christina is friendly with him because he followed Meredith around like a puppy (before they slept together), and they all ate lunch together.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if this situation completely damages any kind of relationship Christina and Izzie previously had. Not to say that I'd want them to be enemies, not something that black and white, but I don't feel like they're relationship ever needs to go back to the "friendship" it was. I wouldn't miss it. If that one spoiler is correct, I think I'm going to enjoy the Callie/Christina friendship immensely, actually.

[Cristofle]

I think Cristina has a certain fondness for George underneath the gruff exterior- she was affected by his claim that she was the best intern, she repeated the sentiment to his father, and she opened up to him about her father's death when she hasn't even done that with Meredith. And she seems to enjoy a bantering relationship with Alex (like them calling each other crackwhores and gossiping about Derek vs. Mark in S2). It's something I don't really see there with Izzie in particular- Izzie is either Meredith's friend or part of the intern group to Cristina.

I don't analyze Izzie the same way I do Cristina but I don't have to- she's obviously the least close to Cristina of the group based on her connections to the others. George- obvious. Alex- obvious. Meredith- roommate, probably closest female friend. I think Izzie is likely more upset that she's cut out on Meredith's side than on Cristina's side, that Meredith is SO MUCH closer to Cristina. Not that Meredith doesn't care for Izzie- that, I think, is a genuine bond, or has been in the past. Meredith likes/loves Izzie. I don't so much think Cristina does.

[-sick jag-]

This is not a discussion thread about whose morals are worse. This is not a discussion thread about why you like/dislike George/Izzie, or Meredith/Derek, or whoever else. This is a thread to discuss spoilers. Spoilers, people. Do not bring issues about morals into the discussion; it simply gets too heated. Do not question other posters' morals; it's not your place.

I know that people feel very passionate about the couples they support, and even those they do not. However, remember that this is the spoiler thread, and such discussions/debates about couples are not appropriate.

Thanks.

[Alexa]

GI can be defended without slamming mer/der but it when it comes down to other people JUDGING one character and not the other then yeah, well say somethig about it. There ARE fans of both couples, you know.

[Kyls]

Thatcher will be returning in Episode 7. I'm not sure if that had been mentioned already...

[thackery]

Oh great, ugh, I hope he has something nice to say. Maybe he's there to see Lexie?

[josebajm]

Nop, but I really love Nadal (and I think that is why you are asking )

No, I was asking because you had some words in spanish in your siggy, so I thought that maybe you were spanish. I am spanish, just so you know.

Thatcher will be returning in Episode 7. I'm not sure if that had been mentioned already...

No, I don't think so. It will be interesting to see, maybe he's there to connect Mer and Lexie, or maybe to forgive Mer for what he did.

[Nanours]

Originally Posted by p&j =true luv (View Post) Thatcher will be returning in Episode 7. I'm not sure if that had been mentioned already...

For slapping or talking ?

[thackery]

Hopefully Meredith will be a little more open to him returning in this episode, because of Lexie

[Nanours]

Originally Posted by thackery (View Post) Hopefully Meredith will be a little more open to him returning in this episode, because of Lexie

The one who has to be more open is Thatcher first he was the one who left his daughter behind him he is the one who has to be a little more open first ! Lexie (and Susan too when she was alive) has always been open to Meredith till the moment she knew who she was and met her ! And even if Meredith wasn't at first (with Susan) she becomes more open because Susan pushed her but she did so maybe she will too with Lexie. For Thatcher she tried and quit but the one who quited first was him so ...

[Cristofle]

I absolutely do not want that. I don't want that relationship to ever be repaired; I don't think anyone should have tried to press Meredith to do it in the first place. Lexie, maybe. I still don't think Meredith should feel obligated to- DNA does not a family make. But still, Lexie is innocent and there's no real harm in bonding with her. Thatcher? Thatcher is abandoning abusive nightmare. By his own account, he could have fought for her and basically was just like "Eh...no" when the marriage ended, choosing to forget about his daughter and make a new family. He has never been enthusiastic or warm towards her, and there's been every indication he's resentful of her for being Ellis's daughter (often seemingly forgetting she's his own as well). And after the slap and the disowning...no. Thatcher is a toxic presence in Meredith's life. He does not love her, or he wouldn't have done what he did to her after Susan died. She needs to cut him out permanently. If anything, I'd like this visit to show Lexie how her father treats Meredith, and maybe garner some understanding into Meredith's extreme hesitation to get close to her.

NOTHING in the Thatcher/Meredith relationship is on Meredith. NOTHING. She may be an adult, but she is still his child. She is the child in the child/parent relationship, and more to the point the child he abandoned and left with a woman he knew full well was emotionally and mentally abusive. She owes him nothing and he owes her everything.

[absent toast]

Originally Posted by Cristofle (View Post) I absolutely do not want that. I don't want that relationship to ever be repaired; I don't think anyone should have tried to press Meredith to do it in the first place. Lexie, maybe. I still don't think Meredith should feel obligated to- DNA does not a family make. But still, Lexie is innocent and there's no real harm in bonding with her. Thatcher? Thatcher is abandoning abusive nightmare. By his own account, he could have fought for her and basically was just like "Eh...no" when the marriage ended, choosing to forget about his daughter and make a new family. He has never been enthusiastic or warm towards her, and there's been every indication he's resentful of her for being Ellis's daughter (often seemingly forgetting she's his own as well). And after the slap and the disowning...no. Thatcher is a toxic presence in Meredith's life. He does not love her, or he wouldn't have done what he did to her after Susan died. She needs to cut him out permanently. If anything, I'd like this visit to show Lexie how her father treats Meredith, and maybe garner some understanding into Meredith's extreme hesitation to get close to her. NOTHING in the Thatcher/Meredith relationship is on Meredith. NOTHING. She may be an adult, but she is still his child. She is the child in the child/parent relationship, and more to the point the child he abandoned and left with a woman he knew full well was emotionally and mentally abusive. She owes him nothing and he owes her everything.

I agree completely. In no way should Meredith feel guilty or responsible for Thatcher or try to repair a relationship that is so toxic for her. If the show goes in that direction I'm going to be really dissapointed and agree with everyone who says Meredith can not catch a break. Thatcher is a horrible father and I hope he realizes how awful he is when he comes back.