[Telepath]

I think that no matter if you like young Octavian or not it's extremely easy to see how Bruno has carried over a lot of character traits from him to young Bruce Wayne. Relentless, extremely clever yet with a hint of youthful innocence, etc.

I loved Max Pirkis in the role and I was very sad by the recasting. The storylines for him post-recasting might have been better as they frankly ought to be because he had more to do, but there's nothing bar the very graphical sex scenes that I didn't feel Max could've pulled off. The main problem was the timejump.

[ParsD]

David plays Bruce with a lot more naunce and vulnerability than I remember from Max's Octavian. I guess part of the reason I didn't like the kid was because I didn't see enough of the innocence and thought the kid was too good. I actually saw a lot more vulnerability from the adult version. Also David is very charismatic, something I can't say about Max. But that's preference.

As far as shortcoming for Max, the big one would be carrying the right chemistry and dynamics with his bro squad and Marc Anthony. Max would be too young for the actors playing his bff (and they were both soooo perfect to me, as someone who was oddly fascinated with them). And I just didn't see a spark between Max and the actor playing Marc Anthony. The one character he had better chemistry with was the sister...but I wasn't really into that relationship.

[CityGal]

Thanks for the discussion.

[Telepath]

Originally Posted by ParsD (View Post) David plays Bruce with a lot more naunce and vulnerability than I remember from Max's Octavian.

David is a better actor than Max. I think that's unquestionable. But David Mazouz is the best current fifteen-year-old actor in the world.

I saw a lot of chemistry between young Octavian and Mark Anthony, the resentment, the hate. And yes, he played against Octavia much better as well, and I did enjoy that relationship. It gave us some very strong scenes, and I disagree that there was no vulnerability in him - less than in Bruce, that's for sure, but he was always portrayed as having shortcomings, being somewhat socially awkward, physically inept - or that he was too good.

A "good" character wouldn't have let his sister seduce him knowing full well she had ulterior motives only to totally break her down when she tried to execute the payoff of the plot.

Again I have nothing against older Octavian's storyline but I think the recast was jarring.

[ParsD]

Originally Posted by Telepath (View Post) A "good" character wouldn't have let his sister seduce him knowing full well she had ulterior motives only to totally break her down when she tried to execute the payoff of the plot.

That was his best character moment, for sure.

For me the kid Octavian/Marc Anthony stuff was hard to swallow, just because that drama was so OTT when it didn't have to be. I rather they kept kid Octavian lurking in the shadows instead of showcasing him too much in s1. That would solve the problem with the recast being so jarring.

But I guess a big part of it is how these portrayals compare to our personal perceptions. And aside from being talented, David is the live action Bruce I've always wanted.

[NikNak]

Originally Posted by Telepath (View Post) ‘Gotham’ Season 3 Recast: Poison Ivy — Clare Foley Leaving | TVLine

Thanks for the link.

[Telepath]

So after some days to calm down, yeah, that thing about Ivy, in a bit more fleshed-out manner.

My problems with the recasting of Poison Ivy are manyfold and really, this is the first time that the show has genuinely disappointed me. I didn’t mind that they brought back Fish even though I kinda disliked her two-dimensional acting for the part and never thought she could sell the mob boss role with any gusto - I guess I just figured that “okay, give her a costume and some weird power and then we can take her for the cartoon figure she always was.”

But Ivy, oh man, Ivy…

First of all, recasting a single character like this is worrying because it shows either that the people in charge had no plan for the show when it came to her, or (even worse) they felt they had to change things up in order to accelerate the story. Also, I sort of thought that Bruno Heller would’ve learned from what happened when he recast Octavian in Rome - yes, he likely had no choice, and the replacement actor was by no means a slob, but he did a poor job with the transition from the character’s younger mannerisms and style. Now, yes, it’s not like they’re recasting David Mazouz or Camren Bicondova, but like I said - it is worrying. If they seem to be fine doing this, maybe those kids aren’t sitting as safe as we thought either? At the very least the producers should go out and conclusively put an end to any speculations amounting to that.

… which brings me over to the second part. Ivy was the “third wheel” of Bruce and Selina, with limited screentime and practically only acting with them. She was also portrayed as decidedly younger. The question here becomes - why did Gotham feel they needed to recast Poison Ivy? There was no reason the original actress couldn’t fill any “villain shoes” just because she was young - as a matter of fact she’s merely six months David’s junior. Also while she’s certainly not an actor on the level of David or Camren, she’s worked adequately enough for the role. The reason is likely tied to TV Line’s spoiler about the “new villains for season 3 of Gotham”, which teases “a mysterious lady who uses her sexuality to entrap men.” That sure sounds like Poison Ivy - in fact, that’s one of the character’s constants, a female date rapist drugging down men, sleeping with them and extorting or mind-controlling them. So that’s why they recast her - they can’t have a fourteen-year-old girl doing stuff like that, because that wouldn’t be either believable - she’s a tiny girl who, pardon me, doesn’t exactly ooze sex appeal - or even legal.

… and then we have the unfortunate fact that as I said the only people Ivy interact with are Bruce and Selina, and Ivy’s already been shown taking a liking to Bruce - "he’s cute, isn’t he?”

The problem here is that we’ve already had to sit through one half season of Bruce being wooed by some older scheming seductress in Silver. Do we really need another one? One other possibility would be pairing Ivy with Selina, since they’re both canon bisexual characters, but… I mean, seriously? The show hasn’t exactly been subtle when it comes to portraying lesbian relationships (Barbara and Montoya, Barbara and Tabitha) and baby Batcat is one of the few things on this show that nearly everyone loves. It’s one of the things that work on this show - even rabid and illogical haters like A.V. Club concede this as a factor in the show’s favor.

Lastly we have the possibility of introducing Harley Quinn to get the canon Ivy/Quinn pairing. Now, I’m not normally one to come up with the standard complaint about how “all the villains are already there and Bruce is barely out of diapers,” but in this case it’s bordering on the ridiculous. So, Ivy was younger than Bruce, but voila, now she is older? And Harley Quinn, who is the Joker’s sidekick, is introduced at the same time as or even before him, and she’s older than Bruce as well? The Riddler, Joker and Penguin could all be older than Bruce Wayne, but these two are clearly, beyond a shadow of a doubt post-Batman villains.

This has reached a point where even I find it rather jarring.

I don’t know, maybe I’m complaining about nothing. I don’t think so.

[NikNak]

I enjoyed reading your opinion about the news.

[Telepath]

They've found their Ivy replacement.

Gotham casts Maggie Geha as adult Poison Ivy | EW.com

The actress is 28 years old and her first order of business is to seduce Bruce Wayne, who is 15. Yeah, that'll go over well.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[NikNak]

Originally Posted by Telepath (View Post) Gotham casts Maggie Geha as adult Poison Ivy | EW.com

Thanks.

[Telepath]

Emmy nominations:

OUTSTANDING CINEMATOGRAPHY FOR A SINGLE-CAMERA SERIES (for "Azrael")

OUTSTANDING SOUND EDITING FOR A SERIES (for "Azrael")

OUTSTANDING STUNT COORDINATION FOR A DRAMA SERIES, LIMITED SERIES OR MOVIE

[NikNak]

Thanks for the news.

[The Survivor]

‘Gotham’ Casts Benedict Samuel as Mad Hater in Season 3 | TVLine

More TWD alumni coming to the show.

[Roswell Dream Girl]

Originally Posted by The Survivor (View Post) ‘Gotham’ Casts Benedict Samuel as Mad Hater in Season 3 | TVLine More TWD alumni coming to the show.

Thanks!

[NikNak]

Originally Posted by The Survivor (View Post) ‘Gotham’ Casts Benedict Samuel as Mad Hater in Season 3 | TVLine

Thanks much.