[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by Penny Lane (View Post) I don't think you like Sue much.

No I don't! She became too much of a caricature to me.

The one character that I truly loved was Rachel. To be honest, even if Cory had lived, I wasn't all that keen over her and Finn ending up together, because I was much more of a Rachel fan than a Finn fan or a Rachel and Finn fan. I was never completely convinced that Finn was the right guy for Rachel, but Cory's untimely passing closed that chapter forever, so we'll never know how things would have ended up between them. Yes, we know that Ryan said they'd end up together, but none of us can know how it would have played out on screen. I also would have been happy to see her alone but happy and achieving her dreams.

[semmanclana]

Originally Posted by Radames (View Post) That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Cory's death completely changed the landscape of the show. Finchel WAS endgame, your irrelevant little wish of having Rachel end alone would not have happened period. Your couple was an obstacle to Finchel, that's the fact. End of story. St. Berry was never ever going to have a shot at endgame.

But they are now!!!!!!! Which is all that matters!!!

[Penny Lane]

Originally Posted by DaiSy TiFF (View Post) I felt they could have written it a little better.

Yo're right. The kiss was way too short.

Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post) No I don't! She became too much of a caricature to me. The one character that I truly loved was Rachel. To be honest, even if Cory had lived, I wasn't all that keen over her and Finn ending up together, because I was much more of a Rachel fan than a Finn fan or a Rachel and Finn fan. I was never completely convinced that Finn was the right guy for Rachel, but Cory's untimely passing closed that chapter forever, so we'll never know how things would have ended up between them. Yes, we know that Ryan said they'd end up together, but none of us can know how it would have played out on screen. I also would have been happy to see her alone but happy and achieving her dreams.

I think Sue brought a lot of humor to the show but at times it felt like it was the Sue show.

I'm also a fan of Rachel first and foremost so I hate how much of her character was reduced to who she was dating. I really don't remember Ryan mentioning anything about any of the couples being endgame but I stopped following the show years ago. I think having Rachel focus on her dreams instead of on a boy was what RIB should have done. That's why I loved that she turned down all of Jesse's offers.

[krissyc20]

I thought Kurt and Rachel didn't meet until they joined Glee club? I hope they have some great songs besides popular and I Lived to round out the series.

[brave princess]

Here's a list of the songs krissy:

2009
I'm His Child - Mercedes
Pony - Artie
Popular - Kurt/Rachel
I Kissed A Girl - Tina

Dreams Come True
Teach Your Children (Glee Cast Version)
Someday We’ll Be Together (Glee Cast Version)
Daydream Believer (Glee Cast Version)
The Winner Takes It All (Glee Cast Version)
This Time (Glee Cast Version) - this is the song that was written by Darren Criss
I Lived (Glee Cast Version)

[krissyc20]

Thanks, interesting song choices

[IBelieveInMiracles]

So I'm really glad Rachel chose NYADA, I think it was the best choice for her. Kurt's speech was amazing. Sam's was sweet but he's not really a speech giving character so it's okay that his was less eloquent. The point was that he cares. I thought it was cute that he knew she'd make a lost so he made a second list though. Which is just one reason that the claims that Sam doesn't know Rachel are false. He knows Rachel. Kurt knows Rachel. Will knows Rachel. She has many close friends that know her. It's just not true that only Finn and Jesse knew her. Finn for sure. But how can anyone say that a character who has had what a dozen total episodes on the show knows Rachel best? He might be like the male version of her but that doesn't mean he knows her best. He knows her to a certain degree but they've never actually had that amazing of a bond, not like she's had with other characters. I think people are doing like the opposite of what fans usually do and projecting Jon and Lea's real life relationship on to Jesse and Rachel. Jesse and Rachel are not Jon and Lea. They obviously have the same talent but they are not their characters. Jon and Lea are great but that doesn't make Jesse and Rachel right for each other. I think the writers are willing to overlook that too because Jon and Lea are great together. Which is great but again that shouldn't dictate what happens on the show. This J/R was obviously tacked on as soon as they knew they had Jon available. Because they've been building Sam and Rachel all this season only to pretend like they are only friends this episode after she called him the person who matters most last episode. I know they aren't exactly in some super serious super exclusive relationship but they were clearly dating. And whether you consider it cheating or not, that J/R kiss was so out of the blue. They haven't seen each other in like years and haven't had romantic interactions in even longer but they somehow end up kissing even though we've been lead to believe she's into Sam? I mean fine if you ship them but let's not pretend it made sense. The only person I would believe her having a bond like that with was Finn. And it was just a slap in the face to fans that actually liked Samchel and had every reason to have hope for them at least up to this point. They could've actually ended her romance with Sam before having her kiss a dude she hasn't seen in years. Just not acknowledging it isn't the same thing.


Also I somehow doubt any actual Samchel shipper were rejoicing over this or whatever someone said in the other thread. But really not getting my ship is the least of my problems with this storyline. It's more that they just reduced Sam's entire final season storyline to being a stepping stone to get Rachel to another guy. Sam and Chord deserved better than that. It's that Rachel is ending up with a guy who has barely been on the show and who I don't think is right for her in any way but maybe professionally. It's that I don't think her ending up with Jesse is entirely respectful of her history with Finn. He would want her to be happy of course but he never really liked Jesse. They may have left things on okayish terms but just knowing about Jesse's past with Finn and Rachel makes me not want her to end up with him. And I know he's not who he was in high school but still don't like it. It's that the writing is so bad and sloppy even for Glee. If Ryan did say that about Rachel/Jesse and he actually wanted them to be endgame after Finchel he should've been trying to get Jon back on the show a long time ago. At least the beginning of this season. They needed to be writing in that direction even without Jon present not using Sam like he doesn't matter and then throwing J/R together at the last freaking minute. Because this doesn't make sense. This doesn't fit with the rest of this season at all. And regardless of her relationship with Sam, she shouldn't be ending up with Jesse. We should just call it what it is-Jon became available so the writers disregarded everything they've written this season and the fact that Jesse has basically been an irrelevant character for ages now and threw together this ending at the last minute. Oh and also Lea probably asked them to end it this way. Which is fine, whatever. But I'm not going to pretend this is how the show should've ended for Rachel, with or without Finn. I want Rachel to be happy, but J/R being endgame doesn't feel right no matter how great Jon and Lea might be together.

[Penny Lane]

It's more that they just reduced Sam's entire final season storyline to being a stepping stone to get Rachel to another guy.

They used Puck as a stepping stone for Finchel and they also used Jesse. This is what Glee does so I'm really not surprised that they did the same thing with Sam. Yeah, we haven't seen Jesse since S3 but that doesn't mean there was never anything there between them. And I won't even touch you implying that Lea had something to do with St. Berry ending together because I don't think she has that much pull. She may be Ryan's favorite but I doubt she can dictate the outcome of a series. Jon and Lea have amazing chemistry but that is by no means why I ship St. Berry. I can tell the difference between a show and real life which isn't the case with the majority of this fandom.

[IBelieveInMiracles]

^Well maybe I was assuming too much with Lea having a part in it, but someone mentioned how happy Lea was with or something and that just made me think that since her character is basically the center of the show and as you said she has the best rapport with Ryan of the cast, she could've asked for it. But obviously I could be very wrong about that. Sorry if what I said sounded offensive, it's not what I was going for there. I do believe however that this comes down to Jon being available and Jon and Lea's real life friendship because as you said Jesse was an obstacle to Finchel and the he pretty much disappeared except for a couple more random appearances where yes he did a nice thing for Rachel with NYADA but he also pushed her towards Finn. They never wrote him as being someone she would ever date again even if they had no idea the tragedy that would happen in real life. Until literally this episode their romantic relationship was long over and past. Making J/R endgame now is just random and the writing is sloppy. It's all too obvious it's happening because Jon became available.

Also I liked Puckleberry but let's be honest they had literally one episode of any kind of meaningful romantic development in season 1 before they got dropped for more Finchel. And Jesse was a recurring guest star when he was an obstacle to Finchel. Neither of those is reducing Chord's last storyline in the final season to being Beiste's best friend and being a stepping stone to get Rachel to the guy who again hasn't been on the show for more than like a dozen episodes. I love Chord and I'm glad he's on the show, but that's just wasting his time. And the character of Sam is the biggest sweetheart and deserved better than that.

And if you didn't ship J/R would you like it if the main character who you really like ended up with not an actual series regular who she's had actual development and screen time with, a couple you actually ship, but instead at literally the last minute she ends up with a character who hasn't been on the show for years and has maybe a dozen total episodes on the show? Imagine how that feels if you don't ship J/R. It amounts to a pretty sucky ending for the show. Especially when you don't think that guy is right for Rachel at all. Jesse and Rachel have a shared ambitiousness and are friends sure but to me they never had some spectacular once in a lifetime bond like a lot of people seem to be implying. And it hasn't been romantic in years. So suddenly kissing like that makes no sense. Like I said the only person I believe her having that kind of pick up where we left of like no time has passed bond is Finn. Don't get me wrong I love Jon and I love Jon and Lea together. But when it comes down to it, I really don't Jesse is the right guy for Rachel. And that's regardless of her relationship with Sam. They are just forcing Jesse into the role of "right guy" because Finn is not an option and because of Jon and Lea's real life bond and Jon's availability. But whatever, Glee has been disappointing me for several seasons, why stop now?

Seeing Cory in as they were putting up the trophies made me tear up too. I miss him. Those were Glee's best years and the show has never been quite the same without him.

Random question but is that last big group performance coming up in the finale like a meta moment for the show because it's all the characters who could show up and it looks like some of the adults like Terri and such watching from the balcony. Are we expected to believe all those character actually came together to sing/watch in the auditorium? It's just like meta moment separate from the storyline right? Because I mean what reason would people like Terri have for being there all of sudden? It's just one big final performance to say good-bye right? It's more like the cast singing then the characters? I'm just really curious because like I said it would be hard to explain all these characters being there at the school when some of them have kids at home and live in different places and some are just random like Terri.

[Penny Lane]

someone mentioned how happy Lea was with or something and that just made me think that since her character is basically the center of the show and as you said she has the best rapport with Ryan of the cast, she could've asked for it.

So just because Lea is on board with St. Berry it must be because she had something to do with it? She was also on board with Finchel and Puckleberry (even though you and everyone thinks they were insignificant) and I've never seen anyone say it's because Lea had something to do with it. I think the only thing she truly influenced were duets.

Your reasoning for why Jon is back is merely speculation though. We don't know what made the writers bring him back, their writing has always been super sloppy and lazy. And trust me, I know what it feels like to not have my ship end together or not have Rachel end up with who I wanted. I may ship St. Berry but I was fine if she didn't end up with anyone.

[IBelieveInMiracles]

^I admitted to assuming too much with Lea's involvement. And I apologize for that. And of course since I'm not the writers I don't know why they do anything they do, but I would put money on J/R happening all of sudden because Jon became available. Nothing about this season in anyway way pointed to her and Jesse ending up together. His name hasn't even been mentioned on the show in ages. I highly doubt they were planning a J/R ending until they had Jon locked down for these two episodes he will be in. Jon has been super busy on Broadway and making movies, like Frozen for example, so he wasn't readily available to Glee and Jesse was thus an irrelevant character until Jon actually became available. So while I can't be sure of anything, I would bet on this sudden J/R ending being about his being available to film.

Also I don't think Puckleberry is insignificant. I was just all worked up over the episode when writing that post and I think I was a little snippy at times sorry about that. I actually really liked them and was hoping for more. Because they honestly didn't get much before they got dropped for more Finchel. My point from my previous post was that was an unfortunately short storyline in season one, not Puck's last storyline ever. Reducing Sam's storyline in the last season to being a stepping stone to J/R is different and it was a very uncool move. And what's worse is they probably aren't going to bother keeping them as friends since he appears to be MIA at her Tony's party. So they just wasted Sam's time this last season. Needless to say I am not very happy right now.

[Penny Lane]

You're entitled to your opinion, no worries.

I don't think a lot of people are happy with how the show is ending but if I have to be honest, I'm just glad Lea is done with this mess.

[IBelieveInMiracles]

Thanks. I just used to really love this show and then it went downhill, but I thought for moment it might end on bright spot but nope instead we get a curveball at the last minute that ruins everything. I mean they can end it how they choose, but they shouldn't expect everyone to be happy when they've lead on the people that liked Samchel (and took down Samcedes in the process. I'm not fan of S/M and I think they got a good ending because they were never right for each other but I could see fans of them being upset that Samcedes ended and then Samchel might not work out), used Sam as a stepping stone to another guy, and are having Rachel end up with a recurring guest star who hasn't been on the show for years. As much as I love Jon and am glad in a general sense for him to be back, Rachel ending up with Jesse is just not how I imagined things ending for her. I'd rather her just end up alone with her Broadway dreams coming true and hope for the future that she will eventually find love then this forced last minute ending with Jesse. He's not the right guy for her. And I'm just so tired of crap writing like this.

[Gio Gio]

People can't forget Finn. They were a lovely couple. But I always liked Rachel and Jesse together too, so I'd love to see an happy ending for them.

[fox24]

I am not the biggest fan of Glees final seasons but I am happy with Rachel ending that she's back to school. She did say she and Sam were friends so it wasent cheating.
I shipped her with Finn attimes but I believe they outgrew although I am sure if fate was different they would have ended up together. She and Jesse I just always loved with the exception of his mistake in s1 but he made up for it


I am just happy that the characters are free from this trainwrek