[lilmelodie]

Originally Posted by blaab (View Post) Lkelve, nice to read that positive post of yours !!! Okee, I am highlighting this part of the post, because I thought about the following spec while reading that part. You mentioned trust and Chris being jealous of Luke. Somehow I am thinking that the letter Lorelai will write about Luke will, like someone else mentioned before, make Chris also extra insecure because of the part he played in Rory´s life compared to how Lorelai describes Luke. The jealousy has already been fueled earlier, but this letter only adds to his concern ... Add that all up and I am imagining Chris calling Lorelai again on Luke punching him after Partings and later on getting into a fistfight with him. In the line of yeah yeah what a great guy ... did you mention that in your letter? Lorelai will respond saying that he was just as much responsible for the fistfight (ep 10), Chris again will say that she is married to him and Luke already hit him also after Partings, what about some loyality. And that will lead to something that many of us have wondered about ... that night after she gave the ultimatum to Luke and well the action that left to no turning back ... that night I believe will come up again and also Chris not being there again a lot during Rory's younger years will be addressed somewhat. She might defend Luke in saying how hurt he was from what THEY had done that night, but yeah that he should have directed his anger towards her, but Luke also blamed him. Chris might have some sort of comeback about how this was what she wanted, so he shouldn't be blamed ... and I am thinking Lorelai will take responsibilty for this night, but might also ask him if he didn't see how heartbroken she really was ... not directly accusing him of something, but some remain lingering in the air ... or well at least some questions that will keep running through her mind. And well this could lead to some more ... tension I guess ... especially if Lorelai will admit (if she feels there is something to admit) that she did always wanted him to be there more for Rory. And well Luke was there for April, so why shouldn't she write this. To her that simply being fact. Oh let me add, if anything from this spec would turn out on screen (okee, I can have some hope right ...) I do want Lorelai also to realise how she messed up ... not just Chris. Because well she did also mess up imo ... Because I am thinking that this will be a big thing in 12, because we have spoilers on Chris already being moody or well not being around because he is sulking over a bad fight with Lorelai. This bad fight might already have happened in ep 12. Chris is still sulking, while Lorelai is dealing with her fathers sickness, Luke is around, Lorelai probably still thinking about some things from that fight ... some questions, wondering ... she sees Luke doing what he is doing ... helping out and well, somehow this all together will lead to an epiphany ... Gjoni, so true ... great point about Lorelai and the projecting. Yep, classic it is imo ... About the Entertainment Weekly review. I don't really want to think about it too much ... but this line definitely made me go HUH: I dunno, his dishonest vibe sort of overshadowed this for me ...

Wow, I swear you are in my head or something, because I am thinking the same thing as you with regards to your spec about Christopher's trust issues and Lorelai in a sense defending luke. I could see that happening.

[MickeyJr3000]

Blabb, if that happens, we're having a party for 7.12

No more waiting for 7.13, I will want 7.12 to come NOW!

[caf123]

Originally Posted by MickeyJr3000 (View Post) But...he's a plot device. That's what happens to plot devices. Seriously. You think they'll change his character to make him more wise than he has been? He's the same guy who declared the best night of his life was when Lorelai kissed him, and then declared in front of Luke that Luke was the 'for now' guy...simultaneously begging Lorelai to take him back. Oh, and his cluelessness in previous seasons as to how Rory feels about him. Like when she told him to stay away from her mom and got mad when he didn't listen. Or when he didn't think that, perhaps, Rory was mad that Chris ran off again and that's why she wasn't calling him (3.02).

It's not just cluelessness and wisdom. We're talking morality here.

This man was willing to neglect his child for 22 years and never question his actions, never worry about what it was doing to her, continue to think only about his own needs and put himself first. He still hasn't questioned it. Change would start there. So would rethinking the "best day of his life"/

Perhaps his attitude is typical of developing teenagers, but there's more at stake than his once having been 16. As Mickey pointed out so well.

There are reasons that people hate this character, it's more than a mere triangle.

Yes, characters can change. But Christopher hasn't. He could come back for Rory not Lorelai - just once. He could bother to actually get to know his daughter - on a young-adult level now.

He pushed this whole thing with Lorelai, yes she was a willing partner, but the impetus came from him. And I still question how much he's thinking of her needs and how much he's thinking of his own.

Also, we have never, not once, seen him bother with a truly selfless act - seen him put someone else first, seen him just help out somewhere. THAT would be change.

[Captain Hawkeye]

How is Anna different in 7.09 than Lorelai was at 18?

Anna insisted on making ALL the decisions about where April lived--so did Lorelai.

Anna is taking April away from Luke and unwilling to promise he'll ever see her again--Lorelai took Rory away from E & R and was unwilling to let them see Rory (she declined an invite to their first Christmas party).

Anna deprived Luke of seeing April growing up--Lorelai deprived E & R of that (remember Emily had to get pics from Mia).

Anna says she wants Luke to be involved in April's life, but when push comes to shove Anna's control comes first. Lorelai says she "left the door open" but Christmas with Chris & Sherry seemed to test that. The door to E & R was slammed shut.

Anna never reached out to April's father, Lorelai never reached out to Rory's father until Rory's "coming out." (One request for child support and Rory doesn't grow up in a potting shed.)

The Anna of 7.09 isn't all that different from young Lorelai: neither one cedes ANY control of THEIR kid to said kid's father. Contact is on THEIR terms. Until first Emily, and now Luke changes the terms.

[blaab]

I agree Captain to some of the similarities you mentioned. I do however feel differently because of the ages involved and well ...

Originally Posted by CaptainHawkeye Anna never reached out to April's father, Lorelai never reached out to Rory's father until Rory's "coming out." (One request for child support and Rory doesn't grow up in a potting shed.)

I still don't feel it was/is Lorelais responsibiity to reach out. Chris knew he had a daughter. About him I do also feel he was very young, but again so was Lorelai ... and I am not saying that Lorelai made no mistakes. She did, while thinking she was doing the right thing ... but I don't feel because of that we can blame Lorelai for Chris not being around for Rory too much while growing up. That was his own responsibility and his 'mistake', I guess ... I just see two teenagers dealing with a situation the best they could. Decisions made then, lead to bigger Issues along the way. Lorelai afraid after running away from E&R to turn back and deal with the hurt she caused and the hurt she felt because of this herself also. Again she was still very young. Chris thinking the only way he could be a parent was to be married to Lorelai and being the provider ... maybe feeling guilty for not being around in the beginning and that making it hard to face the situation when Rory was 4, 5, 6 ... trying to make a success of himself (with trying and setting up different businesses) so when he had it all (financially, according to his parents standards) he could finally be there ... never knowing or realising all Rory needed was a father to be around ... emotionally, not neccesarily financially.

And about the potting shed, not disagreeing here that child support might have led to them living in a real house earlier, but that is one of my alltime favourite scenes. Rory showing Emily around (Emily in Wonderland) and her face and eyes lighting up when she talks about the potting shed and the swans and all. I love that scene ...

[Javalava86]

Anna never reached out to Luke because he didn't know about his kid in the first place, and she apparently did not want him to know. I can definitely see where you get the similarities between the two but that little fact i believe makes all the difference.

[damselfly]

Originally Posted by Elduccia I'd love for the writers to develop some sort of incompatibility btw Lorelai and Chris on some important matters - like trust, which they will do using the whole Chris is jelous of Luke - rather than suddendly turning Chris into and a$$ just to sort themselves out of the C/L storyline.

The incompatibility is already there though, as we started to see last night. Peel away what Chris and Lorelai do have in common -- Rory, first love, living a dream -- and what's left? Two people who don't really fit into each other's worlds. Chris is too 'uptown', Lorelai's too 'small town'. Chris is full steam ahead with a ritzy society wedding party that Lorelai doesn't want, while Lorelai's planning beer swilling, birdwatching, and darts man-dates to help Chris fit in where he'll never be more than a fish out of water.

They're both trying really hard, but for 22 years their lives went in different directions, and we're starting to see that their incompatibility is greater than their compatibility, and the blush is starting to come off the rose.

[Katiegg108]

There's another man listed as a "Townperson" in ep. 11 on imdb. I'm guessing there's something in town again in that ep.. a festival? Or just some scene that's out in town?

[lancer1993]

RATINGS - ep 7.09 - thanks to OyPoodles at TWoP

Tuesday 11/28/06 - Topic Powered by eve community

The absence of Dancing With the Stars is proving beneficial for CBS’ underrated NCIS with 17.91 million viewers (#1) and a 4.1/11 among adults 18-49 (#2) from 8-9 p.m. Second was ABC’s aforementioned repeat of A Charlie Brown Christmas, followed by NBC’s Friday Night Lights (Viewers: #3, 6.17 million; A18-49: #3, 2.4/ 6), Fox’s Standoff (Viewers: #4, 5.79 million; A18-49: #4, 2.3/ 6) and the CW’s Gilmore Girls (Viewers: #5, 4.83 million; A18-49: #5, 2.2/ 6). Although even a diluted Gilmore Girls is still passable on the CW, Friday Night Lights and Standoff need to find new time periods (with ample lead-in support) pronto.

So best numbers of the season, can't wait for next week.

[Captain Hawkeye]

They've got Lorelai declaring, in almost a direct lecture to bloggers and message boarders, that even though her life didn't turn out the way everyone hoped, she needs people to get on board.

Another link to the past: everyone assumes LORELAI WAS RIGHT when, at age 16-18, she made decisions that caused her life to not turn outthe way others wanted. People assume LORELAI WAS RIGHT to snub E & R all thos years, to run away, to not get married.

If Lorelai's judgement was right then (and, please, being a mom at 16/17 has to be way more traumatic than a big experience with your fiancee's ex) why isn't she right in marring Chris now?

Of course, maybe Lorelai might not have been as right as we believed? No, she may be more right NOW than we care to believe, and Sookie & Babette & Miss Patty are as WRONG as E & R were then.

[Ciaobella]

Originally Posted by Captain Hawkeye (View Post) How is Anna different in 7.09 than Lorelai was at 18? Anna insisted on making ALL the decisions about where April lived--so did Lorelai. Anna is taking April away from Luke and unwilling to promise he'll ever see her again--Lorelai took Rory away from E & R and was unwilling to let them see Rory (she declined an invite to their first Christmas party). Anna deprived Luke of seeing April growing up--Lorelai deprived E & R of that (remember Emily had to get pics from Mia). Anna says she wants Luke to be involved in April's life, but when push comes to shove Anna's control comes first. Lorelai says she "left the door open" but Christmas with Chris & Sherry seemed to test that. The door to E & R was slammed shut. Anna never reached out to April's father, Lorelai never reached out to Rory's father until Rory's "coming out." (One request for child support and Rory doesn't grow up in a potting shed.) The Anna of 7.09 isn't all that different from young Lorelai: neither one cedes ANY control of THEIR kid to said kid's father. Contact is on THEIR terms. Until first Emily, and now Luke changes the terms.

Two huge differences, and the only ones that matter: Lorelai didn't keep Rory from Chris' knowledge for twelve years - that alone sets the tone for accessiblilty and the fact that Anna did should preclude any attempt at denying Luke access to April now, and 2) Lorelai was never In You Face Bitchy with Chris about making any and all decisions regarding Rory.

And if she were, he could have fought her.

[Mag13]

Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post) After Chris reads Lorelai's glowing character reference for Luke, Chris is not only going to get pissed, he's going to get even. As in interferring in the custody suit and bringing Luke's "violent" behaviour to the court's attention. This will be the final straw that breaks in his relationship with Lorelai.

That's what this thread is for: speculation pure. But I can imagine, they could write such a storyline: without cheating, without dramatic break ups, but showing, that there's still an old loyalty being stronger than a new one. And I can imagine, that Chris defaming Luke in his custody issues could renewed Lorelai's loyalty towards Luke as her old friend regardles of what happened to their relationship. Like she did breaking up with Jason because of family loyalty.

[gilmorebrazil]

Originally Posted by Captain Hawkeye (View Post) How is Anna different in 7.09 than Lorelai was at 18? Anna insisted on making ALL the decisions about where April lived--so did Lorelai. Anna is taking April away from Luke and unwilling to promise he'll ever see her again--Lorelai took Rory away from E & R and was unwilling to let them see Rory (she declined an invite to their first Christmas party). Anna deprived Luke of seeing April growing up--Lorelai deprived E & R of that (remember Emily had to get pics from Mia). Anna says she wants Luke to be involved in April's life, but when push comes to shove Anna's control comes first. Lorelai says she "left the door open" but Christmas with Chris & Sherry seemed to test that. The door to E & R was slammed shut. Anna never reached out to April's father, Lorelai never reached out to Rory's father until Rory's "coming out." (One request for child support and Rory doesn't grow up in a potting shed.) The Anna of 7.09 isn't all that different from young Lorelai: neither one cedes ANY control of THEIR kid to said kid's father. Contact is on THEIR terms. Until first Emily, and now Luke changes the terms.

I agree with most of Anna/Lorelai similarities. Though, as blaab said, the difference of ages should play role in that.

And it's true, Lorelai "left the door open" to Christopher only to slam it in the Bracebridge Dinner. But just as Luke, he could have asked for his rights. As you said, Emily changed Lorelai's terms. Oh, and neither Richard thought twice before go against Lorelai's wills in the Let the Games Begin or in A House is not a Home, just because he wanted the best for his grandchild. So what was stopping Christopher?

I don't think we should hold the past against Christopher forever, but to put his absence as a father only on Lorelai's choices is a litle unfair...

[blaab]

Originally Posted by Captain Hawkeye (View Post) They've got Lorelai declaring, in almost a direct lecture to bloggers and message boarders, that even though her life didn't turn out the way everyone hoped, she needs people to get on board.

I am thinking Lorelai said this in reference to her whole life. Never experiencing acceptance from E&R. Always feeling she did wrong, feeling she was not the daughter Richard and Emily wanted her to be, then getting pregnant at 16 , not marrying Chris at 16/17 and the running off to SH. And I guess we have seen the struggle that led too over all these years. Then she felt Luke was not good enough for her parents. Now E&R are okee with her marrying Chris, but want a big party, that she really doesn't want. And on top of that the townies of SH, the ones that were always so acceptant of her, do not approve of her husband.

I don't think this was just about the townies, nope, I think this comes from Lorelai always feeling she is letting others down, being a dissapointment and all ... this feeling stemming from her upbringing. How old was she when she was cutting of her own head of pictures? Hello Big Head Dolly Again I am not saying E&R were evil parents, I am simply saying Lorelai never experienced feeling accepted for who she was.

[noodle_scooze]

Anyone think Chris will ever find out that ER planned on buying LL a house? Hmmmm....CL get a fugly wolfgirl picture for their marriage and LL would have gotten a house. I'm thinking if Chris ever found out about that, he wouldn't be too happy. Seems like more fuel on the fire for Christopher.

And I must add that I'm extremely excited for the rest of the season. Especially the Richard illness. The drama and effects of that SL will be awesome to watch. I'm just gonna go ahead and say it....I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT EPISODE! (first time all season)