Spoilers - Gilmore Girls Spoilers and Speculation #106 ~ Welcome Back, Titles, Welcome Back - Page 11

iamsher · 11-27-2006, 06:10 PM

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Originally Posted by WhiteChocMocha (View Post)

Only by title. If we go by that logic, let's just get rid of all the supporting cast and sets and even the town. Let's just have Lorelai and Rory talk to the camera.

With Emily and, through family, Richard.

Shu · 11-27-2006, 06:12 PM

Luke is not a Gilmore Girl... Logan is not a Gilmore Girl...But the story is what it is...would i still watch without Luke? Yes and mostly for RL. I admit I love Luke, but he is not the whole show...but a very welcome addition in my opinion.

peachypeep · 11-27-2006, 06:12 PM

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To me all of them, April, Gigi, Chris & Luke are all interlopers and outsiders @ the Crap Shack. Because it belongs to Rory & Lorelai. No one else.

I see a difference between Luke and and Chris in this regard. The CS is of course the Lorelai's house, but Luke's relationship to Lorelai has always been tied up with the house - his doing repairs for her birthdays, hiding out from rachel there, basically taking care of Lorelai and Rory by taking care of their house, seeing as there was no father around to do anything. So Chris, Gigi and April may be interlopers, but Luke fits right in.

ETA:

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Luke is not a Gilmore Girl... Logan is not a Gilmore Girl...But the story is what it is...would i still watch without Luke? Yes and mostly for RL. I admit I love Luke, but he is not the whole show...but a very welcome addition in my opinion.

But genki, could you watch with no Luke and no Logan, lol.

lancer1993 · 11-27-2006, 06:19 PM

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Originally Posted by genki

Wow talk about condescending... What does my being a new mom have to do with my not thinking Luke needs therapy. Luke's therapy is April. He's already learning to share his life... This whole sl for him is his version of therapy? He has issues but he's learning to deal with them...Frankly , I take back my therapy comment. No one needs it. Its a big pile of crock invented for people that don't want to communicate with their families and friends...and who are looking for excuses so as to avoid their issues. I believe Luke is finally dealing with his stuff...as for Lorelai...she's in avoidance land. She thinks Chris will make her happy but Chris nor Luke were ever the source of her unhappiness...it was her unwillingness to see love in herself. and no man can give her that...no Chris, not Luke....no one.

Lorelai is the one who needs therapy!

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but investing money in said house means the person who gave it owes you that cash back...hey maybe luke should use the same lawyer to sue....lorelai for the money she owes him

This would have happened months ago if Luke wanted too.

Shu · 11-27-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

I see a difference between Luke and and Chris in this regard. The CS is of course the Lorelai's house, but Luke's relationship to Lorelai has always been tied up with the house - his doing repairs for her birthdays, hiding out from rachel there, basically taking care of Lorelai and Rory by taking care of their house, seeing as there was no father around to do anything. So Chris, Gigi and April may be interlopers, but Luke fits right in.

ETA:

But genki, could you watch with no Luke and no Logan, lol.

damn hard question...yes...i like rory and emily that much

but if u strip the show of everyone other than lorelai than i am out

peachypeep · 11-27-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genki (View Post)

damn hard question...yes...i like rory and emily that much

but if u strip the show of everyone other than lorelai than i am out

**perrygraham** · 11-27-2006, 06:24 PM

Sanja I just read your comments and your question why the BBs like Chris. I think you didn't get that much response because they're tired, tired of arguing why they feel like they feel. I'm tired too and I'm not exactly a BB, I just like Lorelai and Chris together as much as I like Luke and Lorelai together. But over the last 5 months since I changed my LL status into a non shipper status I argued and argued with the JJs in different threads and now I'm just sooo tired to defend myself that I nearly don't like to discuss this subject anymore.

First of all, I don't understand your post.

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i don't want to make fun of you, i really wanna know. but if you think that i will make fun of your response, then don't answer it. see, that's why i didn't ask it on BB's thread, cause i know people would respond like you, even worse.

I don't think the response from that person was bad, what do you mean? And you can ask your question in the BB thread but you've to be careful in the way you're doing this because it's a shipper thread and they're so pissed with people who come into the thread, saying things like Dopey is an ass and leave the thread. It happens all the time. And the BB thread is the only thread where the LC fans can talk about Chris in a polite way without being insulted from the JJs.

The mood on the ff board changed so much over the last months, everywhere is Chris hate and Sanja you know how much that bothers me. We already had a discussion about that.

I've no problem with the Chris hate in the JJ or Neshbie thread (I don't read them) but reading about stupid dopey all the time in other threads annoys me to hell. Cause I like the show, I like every character some more, some less. And I don't need to get attact just because I feel how I feel.

And besides I think hate is a very powerful word. I don't use it so often especially not when I'm arguing about a fictional show. Yeah, people it's a fictional show we're talking about. I think it's interesting that the BBs don't treat Luke in the way the JJs treat Chris. As long as I'm posting in the BB thread nobody said horrible things about Luke. They just don't see LL as the perfect couple but that's all. And that's the way it should be. Okay your argument now will perhaps be yeah they cannot treat Luke in that way because he had never done so much wrong. Maybe. I don't know! I don't like to compare Chris and Luke, I don't like to compare 22 years with 6 months. They're two different people with different backgrounds, lifes and decisions.

I for myself blame Chris for two things:

1. He never was a father for Rory until the last year. That's a huge point and something Rory and Lorelai will never forget and I don't get why Lorelai said "It's fine. You're here for her now." in 7.06. It's not fine but you cannot change the past. It's done.

The only thing you can do is trying to do it better in the future and I hope Chris will do this in the future but I guess it will just end like always. I'll blame the authors for that. But Chris regretted that he missed how Rory grew up and I bet he always has. IMO that was a great moment only destroyed because of Lorelai's "don't worry" behaviour. This scene could have lead into a serious and necessary discussion about Chris' absence in Rorys life without having huge complications or recriminations because LC had a good relationship in that ep.

I don't deny the fact that Chris just came back when Rory was 21 and didn't need a father anymore. (of course you'll always need your father but not in that way) But at least he came back and I really like the Rory/Chris SL although we haven't seen that much lately.

2. He slept with Lorelai when she was emotionally devastated. He should never have done that, sure. He was the one who could think about the consequences. But we don't know what happened exactly that night. Maybe she needed him, maybe that was the thing she wanted that night. Why did she knocked on his door? I'm sure Chris didn't have to hurt her to get her into his bed. Still, it's wrong and he often rush into things but you also have to blame Lorelai and Luke for it, not only Chris.

I cannot blame Chris for his decision to stay with Sherry and Gigi. I mean that was a tough decision where he could only loose. Leaving your unborn child or the woman you love?! Luke also failed in that decision and he had the option to be with his daughter and his fiance. And if Chris would have chosen Lorelai he would have been the same 16 year old guy who left Rory. I think it's interesting that both men in Lorelai's life decided to stay with their children instead of continuethe relationship to Lorelai.

So why do I like (not love) Chris' character?

I like him because he loves Lorelai and always has no matter what.

He's the only man who can keep up with her speaking abilities, seriously some conversations they had about random stuff over the last seasons cracked me up. I also like grumpy Luke who can stand next to a rambling Lorelai without saying something except a jeez but the LC conversations are funnier to me.

I like what he offers Lorelai. A movie night in a car, a trip to Paris (and please don't come with the argument that he did all this just because he has money). I just like to see her doing something different from what we've seen during the last 7 years.

I like that he can take Lorelai by surprise with things.

I like that she can forget her normal life from time to time when he's around.

I like that he became a single father for Gigi after Sherry left him.

...

All the points I mentioned doesn't mean that Luke is unable to give Lorelai what she wants. He's just a different guy and react different, he can handle some things better, some worse than Chris.

And last but not least Chris reminds me of my dad. He wasn't around so much for some years when I grew up so I know how Rory feels and I totally understood why she didn't say something negative about the wedding in front of him. If your father isn't around for you in some parts of your life you don't tell him everything especially your personal feelings. It has nothing to do with him being a bad father or something like that. You're just not accustomed to tell him everything. I really love my father, always have and Rory loves Chris no matter what he'll do. He's her father, you only have one and nobody can replace him. It isn't easy to come back into a mother/daughter family who's used to live without you. I mean Rory missed her dad as much as Lorelai missed Chris as a partner or at least as a parent but they could live without him and Lorelai was able to give Rory everything she needed (a main reason why I love not only like her character) except a father. And besides are we sure if Lorelai really left the door open for Chris? I mean she said it but she moved away from him and her parent's life which's very equal to Chris' life IMO. Still, no excuse for Chris to not be around but something to think about IMO. And Lorelai's relationship to Chris during the first 3 years covered every shade between love and hate, Chris wasn't innocent to that circumstance but I bet it confuses him to hell and of course it affected his relationship to Rory. It shouldn't but seriously it's a fairy tale that it doesn't affect the relationship to your child when the relationship to the mother goes up and down.

I like all characters on the show because otherwise I would stop watching it. And I really don't get why you can mock a show in that way over months claiming you still like the show. What do you like? The mocking which became routine over the last months or are you just here to see when LL will be back on track? What about the other characters? It's not the Luke and Lorelai show. No offense to you but that's just incomprehensible to me like it's unbelievable to you why people can like the character Chris.

Sanja that wasn't a personal message to you, it's more general but you asked.

Shu · 11-27-2006, 06:29 PM

Ele, I commend you for your long and interesting answer. I may never agree but I can respect it....

xmonalpx · 11-27-2006, 06:35 PM

Ok i missed everything. Great.

i haven't been around, and that won't change

oh well my input is out lucky u

colorblind · 11-27-2006, 06:36 PM

wow Ele, thanks for your long explanation.

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First of all, I don't understand your post.

she said that i'm asking just to make fun of her post later. she didn't say it in those words, but she meant it. she said i was not interested in her answer like just like other JJ. that we ask this question just to show how we're interested in knowing why people like LC, but actually we're not. i'm not telling it for others but i'm interested to know why you like them together, so thank you once more for your response.

Captain Hawkeye · 11-27-2006, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post)

Great post WhiteChocMocha. I concur completely. Bring back Luke. Luke and the Diner. Luke, the Diner and Stars Hollow. But more importantly, Luke, the Diner, Stars Hollow AND Lorelai all on one screen. Otherwise, change the name of the show to One Gilmore Hill and forget about it.

OK, now I'm confused. If we base the show on "Luke, the Diner, Stars Hollow AND Lorelai all on one screen" how is that not "One Gilmore Hill?" For the show to be The Gilmore Girls doesn't it need at least two Gilmores?

Also, let's review

7.01: 1 Babette/Lorelai scene, 1 Sookie/Michel scene, 2 Luke w/customer diner scenes, 1 Luke/Taylor & Kirk scene, 1 Lorelal/Rory Michel scene, 1 Rory & Townies scene (Gypsy, Miss Patty, Lulu, Taylor, Kirk), 1 Luke/Taylor & Kirk & Tow Truck Driver & Gypsy & Kirk & Lulu scene, 1 Luke in wrecked Diner scene. Total: 9 scenes

7.02: 3 Luke/TJ diner scenes, 1 Kirk/Luke alt-diner scene, 1 Lorelai/Sookie scene, 4 scenes involving Lane and/or Zach, 2 Luke/Liz/TJ scenes. Total: 11 scenes

7.03: 1 Luke/Miss Patty/Rory diner scene, 2 scenes involving Lane and Zach, 1 Sookie/Michel/Lorelai/Emily scene, 2 Rory/Lane scenes (1 diner, 1 bookstore) Total 5 scenes. Plus other Michel scenes

7.04: 1 Kirk/Luke/customer Diner scene, 1 Luke/Anna Diner scene, 1 Lorelai/Sookie scene, 1 Luke/Miss Patty Diner scene, 1 Anna/April/Kirk/Luke/Miss Patty Diner scene. Total 5 scenes. Also there were several Luke/April scenes, I'm sure people didn't object to.

7.05: 1 town meeting scene, 1 Lorelai/Michel/Sookie/Kirk scene. Total: 2 scenes, plus several Michel scenes and Lorelai/Sookie scenes I won't count b/c they delt with Chris.

7.06: 1 Kirk/Luke/Lulu/April Diner scene, 1 Luke/Kirk Diner scene, 1 Luke sees Kirk & Lulu scene, 1 Sookie/New Supplier scene, 1 Sookie/Jackson scene, 1 Lane/April/Luke scene Total: 6 scenes Plus a bunch of Coach Bennet scenes no one is complaining about

7.07: 1 Luke/Lane/Zach/Kirk Diner scene, 5 Lane and/or Zach scenes. Total: 6 scenes (Lancer, you list Mrs Kim as Marty on your transcript once. An odd error

)

7.08: Only Luke/April scenes.

So we've had diner scenes in every ep except 7.05 & 7.08. Not counting Luke & TJ fixing the diner, or Kirk's alternate diner, that's 12 diner scenes involving Luke & a Townie. For comparrison, MC has only been in 16 scenes all season.

Shu · 11-27-2006, 06:54 PM

Damn I love me some Luke but we need to replace some of those kirk scenes with more Logan dammit...I want my equal share of Logan and Luke

lancer1993 · 11-27-2006, 06:55 PM

Great post Ele,

I never hated Chris as such and only think he ever did the WBB stuff 'cause of Emily's influence and being drunk, I don't know if that makes him weak and not gonna open that up again. In Partings it was wrong for him to act that way but we don't know how it went down and probably never will. Lorelai normally gets what she wants.

IMO he will be his own undoing in the coming eps by his own actions he will loose Lorelai, we just don't know how. This can't all come down to Lorelai having a change of heart Luke v Chris.

I'm hoping for a couple of eps (at least) that Lorelai is on her own, work out her own crap, I don't want her to leave Chris only to jump Luke or even start just dating him, but I want her to want to date him, does that make sense?

iamsher · 11-27-2006, 06:56 PM

Beautiful post, ele. Too bad that one group of fans cannot show respect to all characters like the rest of the fans can. Perhaps the immaturity they call Chris on should be pointed towards themselves.

SarahLovesLogan · 11-27-2006, 06:57 PM

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Originally Posted by beautifullauren (View Post)

she said that i'm asking just to make fun of her post later. she didn't say it in those words, but she meant it. she said i was not interested in her answer like just like other JJ. that we ask this question just to show how we're interested in knowing why people like LC, but actually we're not. i'm not telling it for others but i'm interested to know why you like them together, so thank you once more for your response.

Since I am the she you keep referring to, I will respond. I did not mean to sound snarky in my post. I was trying to point out that the question keeps getting asked, but the answers get ignored. It gets frustrating after a while. The same way that any post not treating Chris like the devil gets either mocked, laughed at, or ignored gets frustrating.

I never said you would make fun of my post later. All I said was that my prior response got ignored. Please don't assume to know "what I meant" by my post.

The funny part is I am not even a huge Chris fan. I just feel like someone needs to stand up for the guy. I don't see him as nearly as horrible as many of the posters here do. Sure, I am enjoying him with Lorelai right now, but it's mostly because Lorelai is happy. Really happy or pretending to be happy, whatever. I am just enjoying the storyline so far this season.

Thanks Ele for your nice, honest post. And also for understanding that my post wasn't intended as snark, but was just showing my frustration.