Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #170: Patty's Punch ~ It's Happy Hour at the Baby Shower - Page 10

sweetestsin1223 · 02-27-2007, 11:39 PM

Thank you blaab!

Tea-Bee · 02-28-2007, 12:13 AM

Thanks Blaab!!!

ssmartinez55 · 02-28-2007, 12:22 AM

This is total speculation, but since Lane and Zach ask Luke to be the Godfather, is it possible they ask Lorelai to be the Godmother?

caf123 · 02-28-2007, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

I'm not sure I understand what will redeem Lorelai in your eyes. I understand that you want her to tell Christopher off, but I just don't think that's ever going to happen. Are you really going to depise Lorelai for the rest of the series? This baffles me, because there's just so much more to her character...

I'm trying VERY hard not to get my hopes up for AA.

I don't care if she tells Christopher off or not. Since you asked - I'd need her to recognize his selfishness, how he chooses to put his own interests first, even above his daughter, and that this is wrong.

I'd need her to regain enough of her brain to remember that "being 16" is no excuse for a 28- or 38-year-old adult.

I'd need Lorelai to recognize, or remember, what's wrong with Christopher, which is much more than "just not right". He actually neglected his daughter, not for a few years but for most of 20 years. And he hasn't changed, he didn't redeem himself, he's never fought for Rory, he's never even tried very hard. He risked his younger daughter to a dodgy elopement where he knew he was "second choice".

Did she only care that he was someone who loved her and whether she could love him back? Did she really see him as a "marvelous possibility" while saying she was "all in" with Luke? Did she not care about his lack of character at all - and most importantly, because I suspended judgment while watching this "journey" - does she still not care?

If she wanted Christopher, she could have had him in WBB.

The plot doesn't hang together and she's been all over the place this year. She "wasn't really surprised" when he left the hospital - but apparently that has nothing to do with him randomly happening to be "just not right".

There may be other parts of her character but we're left with her seeing this kind of person as "the man she wants to want" and that changes her character's moral core.

I don't look for moral lessons on TV, but when I need to suspend my basic beliefs to watch a character, then I find myself not caring what happens to her.

eta: ssmartinez55, Lane asked Rory to be the twins' godmother in tonight's episode.

lancer1993 · 02-28-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssmartinez55 (View Post)

This is total speculation, but since Lane and Zach ask Luke to be the Godfather, is it possible they ask Lorelai to be the Godmother?

They asked the other Lorelai, Rory. That was the point of the ep title "Will you be my Lorelai Gilmore" it was Lane's way of asking Rory.

But since Luke looks like being the godfather It could be interesting when L&L get together.

carolav · 02-28-2007, 12:32 AM

I just watched the episode thanks to Blaab clips. well, the first Logan/Rory scene was very good, to their last scene, I would like to see Rory hugging Logan... well, nothing is perfect.

Mrs Kim was wonderful as always and even Zack and Lane were cute.

But if these writers would show some sense in the next episodes, following this one, sincerely I think that Lorelai and Luke won't be back together as a couple. He seems so done with her, and she seems to understand that their relationship was the past... the fact that he changed by April makes me feel that he really wants to live a new life with his daughter even than she is not asking for that, she is ok with Luke just as he is... while Lorelai the one who wanted him to open "a little" his life for her got NOTHING or almost nothing from him, now Luke is ok waiting for his time with his daughter, and Lorelai is fine, living her life and helping other people, loving her daughter, her town and her townies, her smile in the last scene makes me feel that it is her life! I know that is very probably that some 'earthquake' put they together again, but I saw nothing like that in this episode, just two friends talking as friends, Luke was considering to call her the last episode, in this one at least he should invite her to return to the party with him...

lancer1993 · 02-28-2007, 12:40 AM

carolav I still hold hope L&L will get it together, not much but some!

Oh and Lorelai never asked Luke to change and supported him with April without complaint, we saw in TLM that he was willing to change for her once given notice that he was being an ass, the same thing happened in AVV.

Tara Ashley · 02-28-2007, 12:51 AM

Caf, while I don't think Lorelai will ever view Christopher the way you do, is it possible that maybe her "it's just not right" statement encompasses a lot of the things you've stated? Maybe he's not right because of some of these less endearing qualities? I don't doubt that she loves Luke --not Christopher-- on a deep, romantic level because Luke is the better and more caring person, all around.

Regardless, I just don't see the need for Lorelai to point out all of Christopher's shortcomings as a father, this late in the game. She and Rory both know that he was not a stand-up father; both have recognized this and addressed this at different points in the show. Over the course of the marraige, he did try to be a family guy and a good father, IMO, even if it was in vain. There's no pressing need for all these issues to resurface. I think it'll be enough that Lorelai will end up with Luke, the man who has been such an excellent father to his daughter who he wasn't given the chance to be there for as a young child.

Again, the way I see it, it's not by chance that Lorelai ends up with the more caring and considerate person.

lancer1993 · 02-28-2007, 12:56 AM

I asked before, was she wearing he ring still?

Also anyone know the music for Lane's party or any other music used?

carolav · 02-28-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancer1993 (View Post)

carolav I still hold hope L&L will get it together, not much but some!

I know and I respect that, but.. well, it is not because the characters, it is because the writers, they took a wrong way to fix the ASP's mess... and in the road they killed the characters, they are not the same anymore. They will be together... but they are not going to be the same, I wait some stupid reunion, maybe in the Rachel-Ross style or worse...
I am glad that I am a Logan/Rory fan now, I used to like a Luke and Lorelai relationship until the first episodes in season 5.. but that friendship-that relationship doesn't exist anymore.
Well, at least the next episode seems to be a Gilmore Girls episode, Emily could improve this... that is ther thing this writers had overused Luke's boring part of his life, and has left out Paris and the old Gilmore and funny Lorelai/Luke, Luke/taylor and Luke/Kirk interactions... well and who wasn't waiting Luke to finnish his father boat, wasn't that sensation that Luke being a very good son and that he was LOYAL to his feelings by his family and friensds one of his best characteristics? now he just paid by a new boat? A NEW BOAT? what is the meaning for that? that is not an anvil to a new baby or a happy marriage with Lorelai. SORRY but that doesn't mean that.

caf123 · 02-28-2007, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolav

But if these writers would show some sense in the next episodes, following this one, sincerely I think that Lorelai and Luke won't be back together as a couple. He seems so done with her, and she seems to understand that their relationship was the past... the fact that he changed by April makes me feel that he really wants to live a new life with his daughter even than she is not asking for that, she is ok with Luke just as he is... while Lorelai the one who wanted him to open "a little" his life for her got NOTHING or almost nothing from him, now Luke is ok waiting for his time with his daughter, and Lorelai is fine, living her life and helping other people, loving her daughter, her town and her townies, her smile in the last scene makes me feel that it is her life! I know that is very probably that some 'earthquake' put they together again, but I saw nothing like that in this episode, just two friends talking as friends, Luke was considering to call her the last episode, in this one at least he should invite her to return to the party with him...

I agree with most of this, and also your last post saying he "should have changed for Lorelai".

I also agree with nst's list of how he changed with Lorelai - and how we already saw his softer side, many times, until April arrived with a mandate to destroy LL.

I'm somewhat out of patience with the so-called lesson of this journey, which seems to be Luke learning to move faster and Lorelai learning to slow down - though why should buying that new boat show any change for a man who already bought an entire building in a single afternoon? And who also quite quickly bought and then unbought the Twickham House.

DSR thinks LL together "wouldn't be good TV". So now we're back where ASP intended season 3 to be. If we still had another four seasons to go, it might make sense for LL to be barely friends right now.

I spec no earthquake. They'll let a "decent interval" pass - reminding us weekly of Lorelai's regret over her failed marriage to counter that 'skank' image - then let LL barely reconcile at the last possible minute.

Something will trigger those "feelings" that both of them have buried as hopeless, leading to the 7.18 apologies. Or maybe it will only trigger regrets and guilt. Leaving another three episodes to pass before they remember that they're "soulmates" as the curtain falls.

Does this tell us anything about their new relationship or their future? Of course not. All we'll know is that something has started again.

gjoni · 02-28-2007, 01:16 AM

blaab, thank you so much!

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lancer1993 · 02-28-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolav (View Post)

I know and I respect that, but.. well, it is not because the characters, it is because the writers, they took a wrong way to fix the ASP's mess... and in the road they killed the characters, they are not the same anymore. They will be together... but they are not going to be the same, I wait some stupid reunion, maybe in the Rachel-Ross style or worse...
I am glad that I am a Logan/Rory fan now, I used to like a Luke and Lorelai relationship until the first episodes in season 5.. but that friendship-that relationship doesn't exist anymore.
Well, at least the next episode seems to be a Gilmore Girls episode, Emily could improve this... that is ther thing this writers had overused Luke's boring part of his life, and has left out Paris and the old Gilmore and funny Lorelai/Luke, Luke/taylor and Luke/Kirk interactions... well and who wasn't waiting Luke to finnish his father boat, wasn't that sensation that Luke being a very good son and that he was LOYAL to his feelings by his family and friensds one of his best characteristics? now he just paid by a new boat? A NEW BOAT? what is the meaning for that? that is not an anvil to a new baby or a happy marriage with Lorelai. SORRY but that doesn't mean that.

I know they have changed and maybe that's the point?

I wonder were Luke got the money for the boat, maybe the townies had a pool and picked how long will Chris last and Luke won! LOL

TheJSW · 02-28-2007, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

She's not selfish. 'Wanting to want' a man like Christopher isn't selfish. It's a great deal worse than that.

Unfortunately, Lorelai's presence seriously marred what was probably an otherwise enjoyable episode for me.

Seriously, have you ever known of a fella named Yoda? Seriously, brah, seriously. That's some KIM POSSIBLE humour for the kids out there, but I ask this question in all honesty. What's the point of all of this hate? What does it accomplish? There are signs all around the world pointing out that HATE does jack and ****. When it comes to pop culture that's a different thing, but it still seems a bit much to harbour such a lack of forgiveness. While some will see this as a personal attack. It's not. I am just curious as to how Lorelai being who she has always been is an affront to everything. If she can use strong phrasing. So can I. At least I am not coming with the hate.

Lane was cute in that bed - but Zach is so bland my attention wandered and I remembered her music.

So being a good guy that loves his life and sings to her...is bland? I am going to start making such banal comments as well one day. I have no idea when that day will be...maybe the day Tom Waits gives into making a Polka record. Whateverthecase, Zachk rules, and Bud Selig agrees with me. Am I right Bud? "YOU ARE RIGHT JASON!" Bud Selig: He's the opposite of BALL!

Rory was back to being blandly perfect. It's hard to sympathize with her interview nerves when it feels like we already know she'll get the internship. Even if she doesn't, ever since she swanned back to Yale with no consequences for missing half a year, it lacks interest knowing that magic wand will grant all her wishes.

This is the moment I call your fandom into question. Everyone who hates me, but lacks the gumption to come out me. Brace yourselves. Nevertheless, if you have watched the show caf. Which we all know that you have to acquire that hate you have for Lorelai.

Okay, if you watched the show when Lorelai is not on the screen. You will see that Rory is SPECIAL. While I know it's all the rage to give props to her mom all the time. Rory is the special, intellectual (Nice of the show to solve that debate for us tonight), that thanks to her genes and her mom's stabilizing environment has...SAY IT ERNIE! "SHE HAS THE TOOLS! SHE HAS THE TALENT!" Again, it's not my fault if you had a life during 1984, and did not see Ghostbusters 24 times like I did. Whateverthecase, she's RORY. SHE'S RORY! SHE'S RORY. This is what I have told that other group of posters that like Rory and Logan quite often. When they go on a tirade about needing RORY AND LOGAN'S FUTURES to be expanded on to ridiculous lengths. These two have it. They have it. You either accept it or you do not. If you do not accept it. You are denying one of the CORE PREMISES OF THE SHOW. You are also denying the whole reason Logan changed...because she's special.

I think if this were my first episode and I didn't know the characters or their background, I'd probably have enjoyed it. *Ducks* Guess I'm sitting at a table for one tonight.

This is for you caf. To help you ZISSOU out all of that hate...!

And nice of Robin to continue to act like a woman who couldn't get with a guy like Matt Czuchry on her best day. I kid, but I had to go there once! Her silliness towards this character never ceases to be about her and not about the show. ETA: Carol, I am know that you are not that fond of Luke. If you tone down the LUKE dislike THREE...WHOLE...POINTS...on the Luke hating inducer. You will see why he bought a boat in this episode and decides to make more drastic changes next week. It's because LUKE DANES IS SICK OF BEING IN A RUT. That needs to be in neon lights for some people. Yet, it is indeed the case, that Luke is sorting out his life right now. He's taking chances. This will be why he will go after Lorelai again at some point. If he gets the itch...which he will. Sometimes you have to play some QUEEN, and act like you are in a bad COKE product commercial. This is LUKE's moment to finally get out of his rut that he has been in for 20 years. He's letting the sunshine in. Give him some dap for that one.

That aside, Jasper thinks; "Which makes me think he and Rory aren't going to work out. As Rory seems to be starting to get on track in her career. Getting opportunities." Logan messed up once. It happens. You act as if he's out of the game for good. He's still a HUNTZBERGER. That name is still associated with millions or billions of dollars. He will have his moment to shine in the sun. To assume that he will not...is to deny how SPECIAL he is as a character. Nevertheless, Rory, explained why Logan will visit the town in episode 18 as she sat on that couch in their apartment...THEY ENDURE. That's what they do.

caf123 · 02-28-2007, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

Caf, while I don't think Lorelai will ever view Christopher the way you do, is it possible that maybe her "it's just not right" statement encompasses a lot of the things you've stated?

It could have, but the show went to great lengths to avoid that.

Quote:

Maybe he's not right because of some of these less endearing qualities?

We can read that into it if we want, but Lorelai doesn't think so. If those "less endearing qualities" were why he's not right, she wouldn't still want to want him - instead, she'd have learnt that she doesn't want that kind of man. As she showed Emily, she's still sad it didn't work out.

Quote:

Regardless, I just don't see the need for Lorelai to point out all of Christopher's shortcomings as a father, this late in the game. She and Rory both know that he was not a stand-up father; both have recognized this and addressed this at different points in the show.

I'm not saying she needs to point them all out. No one's asking for a list - it would be too long to recite on TV anyway, lol. But what kind of person he is, played no part in their breakup.

Quote:

Over the course of the marraige, he did try to be a family guy and a good father, IMO, even if it was in vain.

He never put his kids first, he didn't even put his relationship with Rory before his romantic relationship with Lorelai. He wasn't wiling to wait to phone her before they eloped. I wonder how long until he bothers to contact Rory now.

{quote]There's no pressing need for all these issues to resurface.[/quote] Those issues were denied, Lorelai excused him for "only being 16", which wasn't only wrong, it was unbelievably stupid. What happened to her brain that she couldn't come up with a better excuse than that?

Quote:

I think it'll be enough that Lorelai will end up with Luke, the man who has been such an excellent father to his daughter who he wasn't given the chance to be there for as a young child.

Again, she wants to want this man. who chose not to be around for his young child, who chose not to use that door - and who hasn't changed. It's not about being "a family man". He already did that with Sherri, when he bought the Volvo.

His deficiency is his selfishness and and failure to do do the best for his kids, or even give them much thought. He carried on like that during the marriage. Never did he question its impact on Gigi. Never once did he bother to ask Rory how she felt about being moved out of her room.

He's still the self-centered man who cares about how he'll be remembered, not about what his daughter needs or wants from him.

She'll end up with Luke, but she isn't choosing him. She's cleared the path by checking out her fall-back and discovering it doesn't work. What kind of commitment is that?

Quote:

Again, the way I see it, it's not by chance that Lorelai ends up with the more caring and considerate person.

That means the better man wins the girl - but the girl can't tell the difference. She merely lucks out.