Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S # 168 ~ We All Need Some Luke's Coffee - Page 18

caf123 · 02-25-2007, 05:54 AM

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Originally Posted by GEORGEIII

I concur; I thought a lot of this was anticipated in Kill me Now, the third episode of the series, which clearly delineated, at least for me, the differences in personality and outlook between Rory and Lorelai.

Rory enjoyed the day with her grandfather. They connected in a way that Lorelai either never did - or perhaps also did, when she was very young. Remember her taking his Yale diploma when she was about 10?

It's actually quite typical for the child of someone who has issues with their own parents, to get on well with those grandparents. Doesn't mean Rory would choose their lifestyle or even bridge it. It simply means she can bridge that history of nonacceptance and be closer to Emily and Richard than Lorelai was ever allowed to be.

In their eyes, Rory was the golden child when she walked through the door for that first FND in the Pilot. E&R neither knew nor apparently cared that Rory shared many of the same traits they'd rejected in their own daughter.

Interesting how Rory's reaction to actually living with them was the same as Lorelai's. Yet, E&R only cared about her 'not leaving a note' when she left. She rejected their lifestyle the same as Lorelai had done - and they built an Astronomy Building in her name. Ironic.

GEORGEIII · 02-25-2007, 05:58 AM

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

I can also see why someone like Logan, growing up in the kind of household he did, might find that the quirky warmth of SH makes it a good place to regroup.

I think that may have been part of the intention of the writers in 7.15, trying to set up some of that by referring to Logan's "cold" childhood and the lack of "good birthday memories", in juxtaposition to Rory's warm "Gilmore treatment" (as Rory calls it.)

GEORGEIII · 02-25-2007, 06:06 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

It's actually quite typical for the child of someone who has issues with their own parents, to get on well with those grandparents. Doesn't mean Rory would choose their lifestyle or even bridge it. It simply means she can bridge that history of nonacceptance and be closer to Emily and Richard than Lorelai was ever allowed to be.

I think it showed that she was as equally comfortable and happy in the Club as in the CS in Stars Hollow, rather unlike Lorelai. Hence "the bridge". And Rory has literally acted as a bridge between Lorelai and her parents for most of these seven years.

And Rory was shown in 1.03 to be equally comfortable talking with Richard's friends; so it wasn't just that she was comfortable with Richard.

caf123 · 02-25-2007, 06:17 AM

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Originally Posted by GEORGEIII (View Post)

I think it showed that she was as equally comfortable and happy in the Club as in the CS in Stars Hollow, rather unlike Lorelai. Hence "the bridge". And Rory has literally acted as a bridge between Lorelai and her parents for most of these seven years.

And Rory was shown in 1.03 to be equally comfortable talking with Richard's friends; so it wasn't just that she was comfortable with Richard.

Ah, but Rory didn't chose that world. She, too, ran away from it, when she actually lived there.

Lorelai has also been shown to handle herself quite well in that world, when she turns up for parties and auctions and so forth. Rory was comfortable chatting with Richard's friends - why not, they all paternalistically praised her - but she expressed no desire to talk to them again. It was Richard she cared about.

And - random question - but would Lorelai not also have been as happy at Harvard as Rory was at Yale? Remembering 'Road Trip to Harvard' here. It's one of those unknown possibilities.

GEORGEIII · 02-25-2007, 06:19 AM

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Originally Posted by genki (View Post)

The show can't end with just one wedding, Jason. We need George's spec... Two weddings baby, Two weddings.

Unfortunately, I think my spec only works in a credible manner if there is a season 8; and at this juncture I don't see that happening (season eight, that is.) Not that a "credibility" problem ever stopped TV writers of ending a show in whatever manner they deemed fit, of course.

gilmorebrazil · 02-25-2007, 06:26 AM

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Ah, but Rory didn't chose that world. She, too, ran away from it, when she actually lived there.

I think Rory ran away from a controlling grandmother, who was even picking her clothes. Before Emily started to run her life, Rory was quite comfortable there.

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And - random question - but would Lorelai not also have been as happy at Harvard as Rory was at Yale? Remembering 'Road Trip to Harvard' here. It's one of those unknown possibilities.

I think she would be. And, remembering Let the Games Begin, I think that Lorelai would also have been happy at Yale:

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RICHARD: I’m glad. It’s nice being able to show this place to another Gilmore generation. You know, one day, when your mother was ten years old, she ran into my office and she said, "I’m going to go to Yale, just like you." She actually took my diploma out of my office and put it in her room. She wouldn’t give it back to me for about six months. This place makes you remember things. Hopefully, things you’re being graded on.

GEORGEIII · 02-25-2007, 06:28 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Ah, but Rory didn't chose that world. She, too, ran away from it, when she actually lived there.

And - random question - but would Lorelai not also have been as happy at Harvard as Rory was at Yale? Remembering 'Road Trip to Harvard' here. It's one of those unknown possibilities.

1. True, but these last three years also show that she can be comfortable and happy "in that world". So much so, that now she's been called "fancy" by some.

2. I think that ep shows that could have been the case. When Rory is "auditing" that philosophy class, Lorelai wanders around a bit, alone, and her face expresses some measure of regret (particularly when she pauses to look at the photograph of that girl that looked like her.)

GEORGEIII · 02-25-2007, 06:34 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Ah, but Rory didn't chose that world. She, too, ran away from it, when she actually lived there.

And - random question - but would Lorelai not also have been as happy at Harvard as Rory was at Yale? Remembering 'Road Trip to Harvard' here. It's one of those unknown possibilities.

1. True, but these last three years also show that she can be comfortable and happy "in that world". So much so, that now she's been called "fancy" by some.

2. I think that ep shows that could have been the case. When Rory is "auditing" that philosophy class, Lorelai wanders around a bit, alone, and her face expresses some measure of regret (particularly when she pauses to look at the photograph of that girl that looked like her.)

Cappuccino · 02-25-2007, 06:38 AM

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Originally Posted by lorelaisgirl (View Post)

Since I've always wondered: how many people exactly hate Logan? General question to everyone. Show of hands please.
(my hands are staying down btw, like, ground level, if not lower)

I don't hate him but I don't love/like him either. He's simply there and if he leaves tomorrow and never comes back fine with me, too. I'm not intrigued by RL. They don't give me anything. Never have in the first place and it hasn't changed since.

lorelaisgirl · 02-25-2007, 07:06 AM

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Originally Posted by GEORGEIII

2. I think that ep shows that could have been the case. When Rory is "auditing" that philosophy class, Lorelai wanders around a bit, alone, and her face expresses some measure of regret (particularly when she pauses to look at the photograph of that girl that looked like her.)

I thought that Lorelai looked at a photograph of the girl who was valedictorian in the year she would have graduated from Harvard if she hadn't had Rory?

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Originally Posted by Cappuccino

I don't hate him but I don't love/like him either. He's simply there and if he leaves tomorrow and never comes back fine with me, too. I'm not intrigued by RL. They don't give me anything. Never have in the first place and it hasn't changed since.

Logan-neutral?

LG - Life's Good · 02-25-2007, 08:07 AM

HQ stills for 7.17

Captain Hawkeye · 02-25-2007, 08:34 AM

theJSW, one change I'd make to your opinion that things are not fun because. . ., is to change it from peoples' hatred of Logan to their hatred of Chris.

It is this NNS, Dopey, Chrass, Chrissssss hate that, IMO, filters all things: Logan is too much like Chris, Luke & Jess are the opposite of Chris, Lorelai lost her soul b/c of Chris..

If we want to know why GG fandom isn't fun lets asks some BBs. Oops, we've driven them all away. Perhaps we were too respectful of their opinions.

***Jerry D*** · 02-25-2007, 09:02 AM

Hi everyone. I've been reading some of the posts here, and I'd like to ask you all again to try and get along and not argue. This time, I'm not going to single out any one poster, and I was probably wrong to do that in the last thread, but it's very frustrating to come to this thread and see people arguing and lecturing one another. Some of you have very intelligent and well thought out speculations about the future episodes of this show, and I enjoy reading them, but when people start attacking each other, it ruins everything, and what may well happen is that this thread could end up getting shut down, which I'm sure no one wants to happen.

Everyone is going to have their favorite characters or couples. Some people may have liked Rory and Jess together, or Rory and Dean, or they may like Rory and Logan together now, or Lorelai and Luke, or Lorelai and Christopher, so just realize that and respect that, and don't get mad if someone says they don't like the character or couple that you like.

I really want this thread to remain here, but I don't want to see each thread descend into the types of arguments between people that got this thread closed down once, and which has resulted in a topped warning on this board. Please people, let's all try to get along, because if that doesn't happen, we'll be forced to shut down this thread. Thank you.

2ggObsessed · 02-25-2007, 09:44 AM

Good morning all.

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Originally Posted by TheJSW (View Post)

Shanti, nope, I was referring to something Laura stated in response to a 2GG...2GG 2 QUIT. "YEAH YEAH!" 2GG...2GG 2 QUIT! "YEAH YEAH!"

Jason, I am not exactly sure what you mean by this statement. If it was meant as a negative dig at me and my opinion on Logan, then I gracefully and humbly bow out. If I misunderstood your intent (could it be a play on the title song “Too Legit To Quit”?) then I sincerely apologize for doing so.

Sandlynn · 02-25-2007, 09:45 AM

Don't tell me the "debate" is going to be over before I can even get into it....

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I don't think it's about the money and I don't think Logan lost something, I think he might have gained something. Logan has always been 'looked' after or 'looked' out for. He never had to take responsibility for his actions (his indiscretions, his mistakes or errors in judgement)- everything was always taken care of by his family or his father in particular. I think this will be a great character strengthening and growth time for him, to stand up for himself and for what he believes in. Ultimately Logan will be successful because he is an educated intelligent person, if there is an 8th season I think it would eventually lead to Mitchum finally being accepting of him and respecting him for making it on his own. I also think Lorelai will be impressed by his actions, she knows how hard it is to leave ones family because even though it is the right thing to do at the time it is extremely difficult and painful but it is a necessary self preservation type of move. Plus he has Rory in his corner so how could he not succeed

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Logan has taken responsibility for himself when it comes to Rory. He's constantly apologizing or explaining himself to her. The leaving her after dinner with the Huntzbergers in S5, the thinking they broke up, the sleeping with the bridesmaids, the jumping off a cliff, the not telling her their dinner was going to be a business dinner, etc. He even apologizes to her for stupid things SHE does that he doesn't like ... as if it's his fault he didn't care for her dumb actions. "Sorry, I disliked that you were evasive with me and wanted me to lie with you. Sorry that I took offense at your insulting everyone at my party and wanted to have it publicly printed!" Ugh.

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Jason everyone is guilty of nutjobbery but this lj takes it to a new level. Its a bunch of gutless wonders who don't have the balls to face people with their issues. If you think you are being singled out, I can't make you feel otherwise. But, its time this hypocracy ends. I am angry! I am angry that people go after others publicly cause they disagree and I am angry that people retaliate. I am mad that this place is no longer fun. I am angry that I have noticed posters go from being respectful to venomous in one year. I am angry that the fans of this show are so cruel to each other. I am angry that you don't understand that you have to be responsible for yourself as well as taking offense to the way others post. I am angry that I too have fallen prey to this stupidity. Above all I am angry that the sense of community among gg fans is essentially DEAD!

This evolution started a long time ago, essentially at TWoP which prides itself on snarking and tearing things apart to the point that all that's left is groupthink. If you don't think like the core group who are the only people left, you're gone.

You mean, NO ONE saw that coming, no one saw that logical development?

What I find amazing is that that site is quoted out in the press. Come one, come all to dissect and tear people, characters, work apart ... which inevitably will lead to tearing each other apart.

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2) Some folks feel more entitled to their fandom then others.

Please explain this?

The JJ's feel very entitled. Implied contract for instance? If we don't get what we want then the show has been destroyed forever.... That kind of thing.

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Again, people are allowed to hate any character they chose. Logan isn't the Second Coming.

I don't personally think hating Logan is the problem, as much as it is the constant harping on how much they dislike him and Rory, how boring they are, how they shouldn't be happy together because (and this part is implied) Lorelai and Luke aren't happy together, and if THEY are not, then Rory and Logan sure can't be. They can't have theirs first, even if the progression of their relationship is light years ahead. Frankly, dislike Logan all you want, but if you keep bringing it up, people who DO like him are going to get fed up and challenge you on it ... every time.

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Some of Rory's strongest and most committed fans think she'd be happier in Christiane Amanpour's foxhole than with Logan. That may not be the Voltronist perspective but it's a valid opinion. Heck, any opinion about what should happen to the characters is valid.

Actually, most of these "fans" think that she doesn't have it in her to be Christiane Amanpour, but they don't like her with Logan either. They haven't liked her since she stopped hanging out with her mom everyday, worshipping her, attending Chilton, and experienced nothing to challenge her or to force her to question herself. They like the child Rory, not the adult, learning that life throws you for a loop and sometimes you don't measure up.

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Problems that arrive when folks cease discussing the show but only what they WANT TO SEE FROM THE SHOW.

Well, that's the truth.

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In their eyes, Rory was the golden child when she walked through the door for that first FND in the Pilot. E&R neither knew nor apparently cared that Rory shared many of the same traits they'd rejected in their own daughter.

Interesting how Rory's reaction to actually living with them was the same as Lorelai's. Yet, E&R only cared about her 'not leaving a note' when she left. She rejected their lifestyle the same as Lorelai had done - and they built an Astronomy Building in her name. Ironic.

Rory is very different from Lorelai and she certainly didn't reject E&R's lifestyle -- look at her with the DAR; look at her hosting that party for Emily. Rory rejected the way E&R tried to interfere with her personal life, attempting to prevent her from having the life she wanted with Logan, attempting to tell her how she should dress. That's not rejecting socializing with the upper crust, hosting parties, or enjoying the fruits of one's wealth.

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Lorelai has also been shown to handle herself quite well in that world, when she turns up for parties and auctions and so forth. Rory was comfortable chatting with Richard's friends - why not, they all paternalistically praised her - but she expressed no desire to talk to them again. It was Richard she cared about.

Lorelai spends her time snarking at the people at her parents' parties or trying to sabotage them. Look what she did at her own parents vow renewal! Why would she try to mess it up?! I never understood why she tried to create havoc on a day when her parents were going to publicly renew their love for each other. How childish and self-centered was that!?

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And - random question - but would Lorelai not also have been as happy at Harvard as Rory was at Yale? Remembering 'Road Trip to Harvard' here. It's one of those unknown possibilities

Lorelai has never been shown to be the intellectual Rory is. She certainly doesn't read the books Rory does, even the newer Rory who supposedly "never reads". Mostly Lorelai likes magazines and pop culture. She probably would've been happy at Harvard Business School. Business schools don't tend to be interested in the liberal arts. They write in bullet points most of the time.

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I don't hate him but I don't love/like him either. He's simply there and if he leaves tomorrow and never comes back fine with me, too. I'm not intrigued by RL. They don't give me anything. Never have in the first place and it hasn't changed since.

Wow, this proves the point I made above, which I made before I saw your post....

Yes, I know, we've heard you say this time and time again. This is what I mean. We know this. Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes this does get to the point of being no longer "sharing my opinion" but of hitting those of us who are fans over the head with a hammer.