Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #167 ~ We Love Logan's Buns - Page 13

gilmorebrazil · 02-23-2007, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Mag13 (View Post)

The most of wrap dresses, Lorelai/LG wears, are from Diane von Furstenberg. This one also; it's Furstenberg's deco diamond wrap dress. But I find Rory's dress even worse...

Rory's dress is really ugly.

Some of Rory's dresses are Marc Jacob's. But I don't know about the one in the last picture.

little_earthquake · 02-23-2007, 08:41 AM

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I'm still waitin' to see what impact this so-called "journey" had on Lorelai. So far, I've seen nothing. What was it? Just that she made a mistake and oops married the wrong guy? Is that what this 40 year old woman's journey has been about? And that she winds up summing up the whole stupid debacle as "not right" just left me scratching my head. That's it? Oy.

I havent seen the *journey* part yet either

maybe she learned she shouldnt rush into things like she wanted with Luke at the end. To get it all out and to elope right away. But other than that her 'journey' ruined her character even more. This season she became one of the most pathetic woman ever seen on screen.

FuzzyCerts · 02-23-2007, 08:44 AM

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Originally Posted by little_earthquake (View Post)

But other than that her 'journey' ruined her character even more. She's now more pathetic than ever.

TA.

Mag13 · 02-23-2007, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by blaab

Yes, she might have hurt Luke incredibly with sleeping with Chris that night in Partings. But in her experience she was so hurt also.

Yes, every person has right to see things subjectively. Luke's hiding the news about April hurt Lorelai deeply. I agree. I never understand the reason why ASP decided to develope such a storyline, standing in so big contradiction to how she wrote his character from the begining of the show. But I have a "but" (like Sookie!): if someone hurts us deeply, does it mean, we have moral right to return evil for evil? I don't believe. If Lorelai just broke up with Luke, it would be adequate "punishment" for the mistakes, he did since his daughter appeared in his life. There's no need to start a renewed relationship with Christopher immediately. And in a such bad form...

ckomodo · 02-23-2007, 08:57 AM

Rory's dresses always seem to hang on her in the front, instead of taking advantage of her slimness they make her look boney. And I think the Lorelai wrap around has had enough air time, time for her to get back into something lively and, if she's getting too long in the tooth for youthful, how about elegant instead of matronly. But I think she could still get away with fun and youthful.
As for the journey, it's going to have to all come together in something meaningful soon or the whole season will have dribbled away. (The main Drip being called Christopher and the whole Christopher thing). And if this is the last season, what a crime to have it dribble!

blaab · 02-23-2007, 09:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Mag13 (View Post)

Yes, every person has right to see things subjectively. Luke's hiding the news about April hurt Lorelai deeply. I agree. I never understand the reason why ASP decided to develope such a storyline, standing in so big contradiction to how she wrote his character from the begining of the show. But I have a "but" (like Sookie!): if someone hurts us deeply, does it mean, we have moral right to return evil for evil? I don't believe. If Lorelai just broke up with Luke, it would be adequate "punishment" for the mistakes, he did since his daughter appeared in his life. There's no need to start a renewed relationship with Christopher immediately. And in a such bad form...

Oh no, I agree Mag, there is no moral right to return evil for evil. Definitely not. And I do not think that was what Lorelai was doing that night or later on. What I more meant to say was that Lorelai was so hurt that she needed to hang on to someone and that person was Chris. That is why she went there, because she was so hurt and broken ... I do not think she went to Chris and slept with him to hurt Luke ... nope, I believe she was a complete goner at that time and therefor went to Chris. The guy who felt safe and loved her ... her getting in a relationship with Chris later on, I believe was not about hurting Luke also. She felt they were over and even though she truely loved Luke and really wanted to marry him, she tried moving on. And there was Chris, this wonderful possibility for her for such a lomg time and well he wanted her ...

About the journey and what is learned ...

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LORELAI: It wasn't, and pretending it was, was just gonna hurt him and hurt me, and we didn't want to do that, so we split up, and he’s moving out, and...

She didn´t want to pretend anymore and I think that is what has caused a few problems for Lorelai before. She pretended with Max and convinced herself she wanted to get married, setting aside how she really felt. And boy, did she run and I can imagine hurting Max plenty by doing so. If she would have spoken about how she really felt and didn´t pretend, things wouldn´t get so messy ...

Same with Luke in season 6, if she would have spoken up once she started to feel so crappy all the time and wouldn´t have pretended, they could have actually dealt with it, or Luke would at least have known. But nope, she choose pretending and keeping her hurt to herself which lead to the ´great´ ultimatum and ending things messy again by sleeping with Chris.

Same with Chris in season 7. She did love him and I get why she wanted to try this, but she was pushing aside some of her feelings again. But this time they both stopped pretending and she spoke about how she felt.

And again I think this is huge and is a big lesson learned for Lorelai. Facing herself and her emotions, taking responsibility, instead of running and trying to move on without dealing with things and having to face similar problems again later on.

funnyfriend · 02-23-2007, 09:19 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

At this stage, perhaps Rory may survive. Yes, Lorelai sacrificed her life to raise her kid, and in the end it ruined her. It rather reminds me of those apocalyptic films where a child steps out of the ruins at the very end.

Nobody is responsible for our errors but ourselves, and the bad choices we made in life.

Rory never asked Lorelai to be born, she was the result of an irresponsible attitude of L/C and Lorelai assumed the responsibility for it and raised her child in the best way she could.

Lorelai never made a favor to Rory, she acted like any other responsible person must act towards the result of their own actions.

The presence of Christopher couldn't be avoided in the girl's life since (even with all his faults) he is Rory's father, but that doesn't obliged Lorelai to sleep with him or marry him, that was her personal decission for whatever reason she had.

So I don't think that neither Lorelai nor Rory deserve to be happy depending on how much one has done for the other, it will depend, as always is in life, on their personal decissions and elections.

caf123 · 02-23-2007, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by fox24 (View Post)

How did Lorelai's life got ruined, she has a successful bussiness that even Emily proud of. She has acheived the parental dreams of having her daughter be an ivy league graduate; and is seeing her happy in her relationship. She and Luke were probably get together or what ever. Just because she didn't marry the guy you wanted this year didn't mean she ruined her life

It has nothing, or very little, to do with getting together with Luke.

Her character and her core - what I called her soul - were ruined when she shrugged off Christopher as merely "not right", but still deserving of a "marvelous possibility" that randomly didn't work out.

He's still selfish and unreliable and he cares more about himself than his kids. He risked Gigi to a "second-best" marriage, he couldn't be bothered to phone Rory before her own parents' wed - we've been over and over all that.

For Lorelai to turn to him in the first place was reprehensible. That she slept with him a few hours after breaking up with Luke merely adds a layer but it would be just as wrong to marry Christopher if she'd never met Luke.

And to reduce Christopher's neglect and repeated betrayals to a mere romantic choice makes me not especially care who she ends up with. I care because Luke deserves to get the woman he still loves, but watching the last two weeks, I found myself indifferent to disgusted by Lorelai. Even when Emily was so cold in that last scene - I felt the merest twinge of pity, no more than I'd feel for any character on a show I'd just tuned into and didn't especially know or care about.

For me she's lost her moral core and her soul. And it has nothing really to do with Luke. I don't care all that much if they're reunited in the end. If I had any speculative dreams about after the show ends, I might imagine that years later, after watching the sacrifices and effort Luke makes to be a father to April, that Lorelai might someday bother to remember how negligent Rory's father was and what that says about him. And that she might care what type of man he is, and that character might actually matter to her.

eta: Or what little_earthquake said.

eta2: funnyfriend, I'm saying it's ironic that this happened after Rory was all grown up - or on the brink. I'm not blaming Rory, kids don't ask to be born, and it's not even about that. It's not about deserving, it's simply about who Lorelai turned into now.

gjoni · 02-23-2007, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by TheJSW (View Post)

Gjoni said; "Filler? What's wrong with that? To me, it seems to be more substance, like the filling. Sometimes the filling is more "tasty" than the rest." Nice kick save and a beauty for your buddies gjoni. Yet, referring to any episode of an hour-long as FILLER, is a total slag of the show. Also, I know you are German and all, but you need to know that you just made a Miller Lite argument. All we need is someone saying "LESS FILLING", and we would be involved in a serious bruhahaha.

JSW, I don't get that beer reference, so please explain it.
I do however, fully understand what "filler" means regarding a TV show. I don't know who are, or what my "buddies" have to do with what I said, since I wasn't set out to side with anyone but the show, or more specifically, episode 7.15. I don't care if people saw it as a "filler (conventional meaning) episode" - for my own personal view, I'd redefined "filler" and turned it into something positive, because that's what I thought of 7.15. Just fooling around with words. Sorry if it upset any native English speaker or beer connoisseur.
(And lorelaisgirl is correct, I must've moved. But, that's ok.

)

blaab · 02-23-2007, 09:51 AM

Yeah, I did get that out of your post Gjoni, that even though people were calling it a filler for you it had a lot of substance and you liked it!

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Originally Posted by Caf123

For me she's lost her moral core and her soul. And it has nothing really to do with Luke. I don't care all that much if they're reunited in the end. If I had any speculative dreams about after the show ends, I might imagine that years later, after watching the sacrifices and effort Luke makes to be a father to April, that Lorelai might someday bother to remember how negligent Rory's father was and what that says about him. And that she might care what type of man he is, and that character might actually matter to her.

If anything I have seen that type of man, Luke, mattering greatly to Lorelai. That still does NOT change the well, fact to me, that Luke, in Season 6 hurt Lorelai very, very much. In her experience. She might not have been able to see the whole picture and her part in things or what she could have done, but from her POV she got hurt. She felt not a part of his life, of a part that she felt was so important ... April. She recognised I believe the incredible hugeness of him finding out about his daughter and of him feeling it as so important to built this relationship with his daughter. She in no way ever had objections to this, she even stimulated him. But it hurt her extremely at the same time that she was kept out of this huge part of this life. She wanted in, not just in part of his life, but in his life completely. Still she should have spoken up, definitely. But she did feel very hurt by Luke. There is no denying that for me ... she might now slowly start to see her part in this, and also take responsibility for that. Just like she did do when it was about Chris and Lorelai talking about their relationship.

Chris has been trying to be there for Rory. Rory had also acknowledged that and felt things were right between her and her dad. And again I feel Lorelai and Rory have never seen Chris like you seem to see him. They know he is flawed, but they still see the good sides and him trying also. Just like Lorelai has always been showed to be flawed too, while also being shown to have good sides and trying also. Basically the way all these characters have been shown imo. And once they figure some things out, I am sure they will do better. Since I feel that is basically what all people tend to do ...

leonana · 02-23-2007, 09:59 AM

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And to reduce Christopher's neglect and repeated betrayals to a mere romantic choice makes me not especially care who she ends up with.

I feel the same way as you. I've suddenly stopped caring who Lorelai ends up with. If it wasn't for being invested in Luke, I would have stopped watching. I don't think she lost her soul for marrying Chris, I wouldn't go that far. However, the whole L/C sl has made stop caring about L/L. I guess I have to turn in my JJ card.

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And it's time for Lorelai to take some responsibility for her problems. It's easy to blame her parents for her unhappinnes, to blame Luke for not see her unhappiness when they were engaged...

If the writers make Lorelai aware of her part in the failure of her engagement to Luke and also in her estrangement from her parents, she'll end the show in a better place.

Now this might make me care again. If Lorelai takes responsibility for her problems and unhappiness. I know Luke is also at fault, however he didn't jump into bed with Anna. I understand that Lorelai was hurt, but when ASP did this, she put Lorelai in a worse position than Luke.

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I'm still waitin' to see what impact this so-called "journey" had on Lorelai. So far, I've seen nothing. What was it? Just that she made a mistake and oops married the wrong guy? Is that what this 40 year old woman's journey has been about? And that she winds up summing up the whole stupid debacle as "not right" just left me scratching my head. That's it? Oy.

Amen. I think I'm more perturbed by the writing. I'm hoping that it will make sense eventually.

I must be out of touch with fashion, but I liked Lorelai's dress. Emily looked fabulous. What the heck are they doing with AB? How can they take someone who is so naturally beautiful and make her look dowdy? I'm beginning to think it's so she doesn't show up LG.

ETA:

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Chris has been trying to be there for Rory. Rory had also acknowledged that and felt things were right between her and her dad. And again I feel Lorelai and Rory have never seen Chris like you seem to see him. They know he is flawed, but they still see the good sides and him trying also. Just like Lorelai has always been showed to be flawed too, while also being shown to have good sides and trying also. Basically the way all these characters have been shown imo. And once they figure some things out, I am sure they will do better. Since I feel that is basically what all people tend to do ...

That makes sense, blaab. I guess I should look at it as a positive trait of Lorelai's that she was able to forgive Chris. I think the show should address it though.

However, real life intrudes on my feelings for the show. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around how any woman would want to marry a man who had neglected their child. I'm hoping the show will address this.

Mag13 · 02-23-2007, 10:09 AM

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Originally Posted by blaab (View Post)

About the journey and what is learned ...
[...]
Same with Chris in season 7. She did love him and I get why she wanted to try this, but she was pushing aside some of her feelings again. But this time they both stopped pretending and she spoke about how she felt.

And again I think this is huge and is a big lesson learned for Lorelai. Facing herself and her emotions, taking responsibility, instead of running and trying to move on without dealing with things and having to face similar problems again later on.

I hope. I think, Lorelai had to make a full circle, to return to the beginning - to Christopher - to learn the big lesson. Running was always her pattern in relationships. As long as deep in her mind was this feeling that maybe Christopher's the only one. As long as she didn't try it, she wasn't able to have another stable relationship. It's a paradox, that the marriage with Christopher was the only way to show her that it doesn't work. And the failure of the marriage let Lorelai free herself of the old pattern.
Lorelai's own words from 2.14:

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LORELAI: I was just thinking, you know, all these years, no matter what my relationship status has been, whether I’ve been dating or hibernating or whatever, I think I’ve always had you in the back of my mind - you know, the prospect of us being together. But this prospect was sort of indefinitely on hold while you, you know, found yourself and, uh, got your personal life together so that you could really be there for me and especially for Rory. But you and I have been so linked in my mind that I think I have unconsciously sabotaged every decent relationship I’ve had, including the one with Max, because I was waiting for you, and I shouldn’t have been. And now that I see that, and I see you settling down with Sherry, I think I can move beyond it.

But she didn't.
I said it some days ago: the Christopher chapter in her life is closed now. Time to continue the stopped journey.

TheJSW · 02-23-2007, 10:18 AM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

I'm still waitin' to see what impact this so-called "journey" had on Lorelai. So far, I've seen nothing. What was it? Just that she made a mistake and oops married the wrong guy? Is that what this 40 year old woman's journey has been about? And that she winds up summing up the whole stupid debacle as "not right" just left me scratching my head. That's it? Oy.

Maybe some of the next few episodes are supposed to fill in this vaunted "journey" replete with flashbacks (which I personally detest in any incarnation in any show) - I guess we'll see.

Clmorrow, unless you see that what happened with Chris had to happened. The journey might not do anything for you. However, Lorelai, is finally free from the romantic ghost of her past. She's free like a Gungan at the end of Return of the Jedi. That's her journey. Again, if you are not down with that...the journey most likely only has two words for yeah. The journey has gotten angry lately. So watch out. It's on a rampage of telling people what it thinks. ETA: Or what FOX said.

That aside; caf...you are projecting your real-world views onto a show that does not see EYE to EYE with you. Why you continue to give yourself this much consternation over something. When the show simply sees Chris as weak, but not a horrible monster. Well, that's your thing. I am still curious as to when you might realize that the show and you disagree, and how you would deal with it.

ETA: Gjoni, if you want to be cutesy. I will be cutesy in return. NII! Leonana, becuase Lorelai feels differently than you do about that neglect. Chris did not neglect Rory because RORY HAD LORELAI. Lorelai said it herself. You either accept Laura's/Lorelai's reasoning or you do not. If you do not, then you are in contradiction of this show.

Captain Hawkeye · 02-23-2007, 10:34 AM

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Originally Posted by caf

For me she's lost her moral core and her soul. And it has nothing really to do with Luke. I don't care all that much if they're reunited in the end. If I had any speculative dreams about after the show ends, I might imagine that years later, after watching the sacrifices and effort Luke makes to be a father to April, that Lorelai might someday bother to remember how negligent Rory's father was and what that says about him. And that she might care what type of man he is, and that character might actually matter to her.

It is not Lorelai that has lost her soul: she still lovers her neighbor as herself, forgives not 7 times but 70 times 7 times and declines to throw the first stone.

No, the ones that have lost their souls are those who are consumed by unending hate.

TheJSW · 02-23-2007, 10:41 AM

Hate is a part of the bull****.

If you are down with the bull****.

You are denying the love.

The love should always beat the bull****.

If you are not down with that...

You are making Peebles and Bam-Bam cry.

I hope you are happy.