Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #158 ~ Emily in a motel? But, seriously, folks - Page 9

caf123 · 02-11-2007, 10:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

How exactly? She didn't marry Christopher to hurt Luke, and she's not divorcing Christopher to hurt Rory or her family. She didn't enter this marraige to purposely screw herself and others over; she did so because she thought she could have "it" with him. I don't understand how this makes Lorelai a cold-hearted person.

What makes her cold-hearted is ignoring, denying and turning a blind eye to his many years of neglectling his child, being selfish and putting his own interests first - of giving him a free pass and easy excuses, which apparently are now confirmed forever. That's where she loses her decency for me - and for many of us, though obviously not everyone.

This has nothing to do with Luke; I'd feel the same if she'd never met Luke.

Howver badly she needed to be loved, there are limits. It's wrong to let someone get aware with years of being that selfish and destructive, especially to a child, then suddenly, just because you're feeling low and he woos you for a few weeks, to shrug that all off. I could almost accept her doing that until she came to her senses. But it looks like she'll never come to her senses again.

I am NOT saying she had to shout at him or never speak to him again. I've understood her remaining friends with him, because of Rory and also because of their own shared youth. I also understood her trying in season 2, because Rory was still a kid at home, there was still a hope of that biological family - and maybe because we the viewers hadn't experienced so many of his perfidies.

But now - after everything we've seen him do. For her to give him a free pass, to let him get away with it all - to forget just because the show seems to find it convenient to forget or because DSR doesn't really care about children - to me this is a fundamental wrongness. It's so wrong and offensive that I can't suspend disbelief and enjoy her character.

I don't think I'm the only one, although who knows how total audience numbers break out. I do know that I've heard the same from kids from single-parent families who had a special place for this show, who grew up with it, and feel totally betrayed now.

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And if this is your opinion -- then how does the Lorelai/Christopher discussion scene do nothing to change this? She's showing raw emotion for the first time since Partings,

She's showing raw emotion because she can't love him, for heaven's sake! Not raw emotion over the horrendous mistake of ever trying to love someone like him, which would be understandable if she were really waking up and regaining herself. This crushes my last hope.

Tara Ashley · 02-11-2007, 11:00 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

She's showing raw emotion because she can't love him, for heaven's sake!

I don't think we know this yet...I'm hoping you are wrong. It seems to me she's crying for the entirety of the situation; not just that she can't love Christopher.

Btw, I had forgotten your views on Christopher as a father when I typed that response. I do respect your opinion -- just don't see it the way you do.

Mirella · 02-11-2007, 11:06 AM

If Lorelai is crying over the fact she can't love Chris and not over the mess she has created then I'm giving up. That would be so wrong

**Katiegg108** · 02-11-2007, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

I don't think we know this yet...I'm hoping you are wrong. It seems to me she's crying for the entirety of the situation; not just that she can't love Christopher.

I agree, I think she's crying over everything finally. That she can't love Chris, that she's going to be alone again, that she's hurting Chris, that she alone screwed up her life, that she has feelings for Luke that she feels will amount to nothing, etc, etc.

Sandlynn · 02-11-2007, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Lorelai&Luke<3 (View Post)

Thats because chris never fit in her life.... since the first day they got together.

He fit into her life well enough when she married him.

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The townies have always been there for Lorelai and Rory. They love those girls, support them and are extremly close to them. I sometimes think that Lorelai saw the townies more as her family than E/R in the beginning. Emily and Richard don't always accept Lorelai's decisions and what she wants in her life but the townies are always supportive of her and Rory and I think Lorelai really appreciates that.

I definitely do not give equal weight to Richard and Emily and the townies in Lorelai and Rory's life. R&E are their family. R&E are Lorelai's parents and they were the ones she rebelled against, never accepted, and disappointed. You can say it was mutual, but it's definitely not the same as the relationship one has with neighbors! How the townies deal with their own relatives might be a nice comparison, rather than how they react to a fellow townie who they do not have the same connection to or stake in their mutual lives. As for Rory, it is 100% clear that E&R's opinion means more to her than Miss Patty, Babette's or anyone else in town. When she has problems she runs to them, and that says a lot.

nst · 02-11-2007, 11:09 AM

[quote=caf123;13945553]What makes her cold-hearted is ignoring, denying and turning a blind eye to his many years of neglectling his child, being selfish and putting his own interests first - of giving him a free pass and easy excuses, which apparently are now confirmed forever. That's where she loses her decency for me - and for many of us, though obviously not everyone.

I agree 100% its like the past 22 years didn't exist except from their weird preceptive

But now - after everything we've seen him do. For her to give him a free pass, to let him get away with it all -

also all the crap he did to rory after they were married, the room switch, the lack of rory at the wedding
..........
to forget just because the show seems to find it convenient to forget or because DSR doesn't really care about children - to me this is a fundamental wrongness. It's so wrong and offensive that I can't suspend disbelief and enjoy her character.

me either

..............

She's showing raw emotion because she can't love him, for heaven's sake! Not raw emotion over the horrendous mistake of ever trying to love someone like him, which would be understandable if she were really waking up and regaining herself. This crushes my last hope.[quote makes sense to me

MissMarie01 · 02-11-2007, 11:13 AM

The whole "you're the man that I want to want" threw me off.

He's the man everyone else wants her to want but her? Her feelings for Luke are clearly stronger than the ones she has for Christopher just that line was unexpected. All and all I think she is crying over the situation not Chris. But I do love LG in the promo - finally opening up, I can't wait to see the rest of the scene.

clmorrow · 02-11-2007, 11:13 AM

In Run Away Little Boy, Lorelai mentions Rory, Sookie, the town and Luke as always being there for her and it was clearly important. I've never heard Rory say one negative word about SH or the townies -

I don't personally know of any woman, including myself, who would be so benign about Chris' choice to be so absent from his daughter's life - there was nothing stopping him from being there for her a lot more - not Lorelai, not Rory - nothing. It was a choice even when the door was always open.

Maybe if they had depicted Chris as trying desperately to be there in a big way for Rory, but Lorelai prevented it or his work kept him overseas or whatever, but they didn't write it that way. The fact that Rory went to her own father to tell him to stay away from her mother because all he does is cause hurt tells me a lot about this family dynamic.

I get that Lorelai didn't want to constantly be calling him out on it because she wouldn't want to make a difficult situation worse by having a lot of hostility - but, to marry the guy? Maybe there are women out there who would do this after 21 years of not being involved in his kid's life, I just (thankfully) don't know any such women.

I know that people have a differing opinion on this, all of which I find really interesting. I wonder if ASP ever knew she was writing a show and creating characters that would provoke such different perspectives about the show and relationships. That is the hallmark of a great storyteller - in my opinion.

Mirella · 02-11-2007, 11:17 AM

Sandlynn -

I was talking about Lorelai, not Rory. Rorys relationship with Emily and Richard is far more better than Lorelai's relationship with her parents. Lorelai fears telling major events to her parents because she is afraid how they will react and is afraid they will be against it and putt her down. Rory wants to tell them major events because they encourage her and support her. Rorys life is the life E/R wanted for Lorelai and that is a huge difference in Rory and Lorelai's relationship with E/R.

And I don't think Lorelai sees the townies as just "neighbours" but as friends, near friends who supported her and her daughter when she didn't have any relative - family - parents - in her life.

But that's how I feel.

clmorrow · 02-11-2007, 11:27 AM

That's how it has been portrayed Mirella. I love when Rory gets accepted to all three colleges, she tells Luke "my Rory, our Rory, SH Rory" - they are as much a part of that town and all that goes on as the other townies and there hasn't ever been the slightest indication that either of the girls have a problem with SH.

As Lorelai said in F&S: "I can't imagine living anywhere else." Thankfully, she still feels that way and couldn't be talked into leaving.

Mirella · 02-11-2007, 11:32 AM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

That's how it has been portrayed Mirella. I love when Rory gets accepted to all three colleges, she tells Luke "my Rory, our Rory, SH Rory" - they are as much a part of that town and all that goes on as the other townies and there hasn't ever been the slightest indication that either of the girls have a problem with SH.

As Lorelai said in F&S: "I can't imagine living anywhere else." Thankfully, she still feels that way and couldn't be talked into leaving.

Exactly.

That's how I feel too.

Sandlynn · 02-11-2007, 11:40 AM

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In Run Away Little Boy, Lorelai mentions Rory, Sookie, the town and Luke as always being there for her and it was clearly important. I've never heard Rory say one negative word about SH or the townies -

Rory's feelings are made pretty in her Chilton graduation speech. She mentioned E&R and her mother. I think Rory looks on SH with affection, bemusement and sometimes irritation. She didn't appear to care what they thought when she got involved with Dean or Jess, slept with a married man, dropped out of school, chauffered her father, grandmother or grandfather around town, became valedictorian or got accepted to various Ivy League schools. She has a take it or leave it attitude. The times I've seen her mad is on behalf of other people. She was mad that the whole town blamed Jess for the car accident and didn't allow her her share of the blame or responsibility. She got mad with the way they were treating her mother's breakup with Luke. She got mad at Taylor for making an issue out of Rory not being there to be his "ice cream princess," or whatever the heck he wanted her to do. She does have her boundaries regarding the townies.

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And I don't think Lorelai sees the townies as just "neighbours" but as friends, near friends who supported her and her daughter when she didn't have any relative - family - parents - in her life.

But that's how I feel.

It's a lot easier to be accepting, understanding, and see other people's point of view when you are not directly involved or directly related to someone. People often are more understanding of people's decisions and problems when they have emotional distance from them, than they would members of their own family. Your family is always your family. You can't choose them and sometimes you end up having to deal with things that you don't like. It's another aspect of that old cliche, "blood is thicker than water". Family should stand by you, but they are also the ones who, ideally, always have to take you in when you knock on their door, no matter how they feel about how you're living your life. As I've said, I just don't give equal weight to the support the townies have given Lorelai as opposed to the support E&R have, nor how Lorelai treats the townies as opposed to how she treats her parents.

Mirella · 02-11-2007, 11:51 AM

But again, Rory has a good relationship with her grandparents and just because she didn't include the townies in her Chilton graduation speech doesn't mean she doesn't value their support and their friendship. She didn't even mention Lane and I think Lane is a huge and very important part of her life.

As for Lorelai - her relationship with her parents has been complexed and difficult for a long time, long before she got pregnant with Rory. She felt outside of that life and as she has said several times - she didn't want that life for herself. Yes, E/R are her parents but they have a very hard relationship.

I just think that Lorelai felt that in SH she could be herself and have a life she wanted and made for herself with a huge support from her friends.

I haven't felt that Lorelai or Rory have a "problem" with SH, that's all.

gilmorebrazil · 02-11-2007, 11:56 AM

I wonder in whose car Emily/Rory/Lorelai will take their road trip. It'll be hilarious if Emily not only sleeps in a motel room but also rides in Lorelai's jeep...

jillianries · 02-11-2007, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Katiegg108 (View Post)

I don't think there's a way for LL to get out all their emotions without at least yelling a bit. I don't want a full out fight, but I'd like a talk, that when they reach certain topics (Chris, April, etc), gets much more heated. Lorelai will probably keep blaming him for keeping her away from April, and Luke will probably keep being mad at her for going to Chris until they actually let it all out and Luke sees Lorelai's POV, and Lorelai sees Luke. But LL are such closed up people, even when they're trying to be open and honest that unless they're fighting and get caught up in all the emotions, I can't see them just explaining everything that they felt and feel.

Like in RR where misunderstandings (Jason) are brought forward and since there is now history they do more of an in depth discussion of certain topics that don't end in doors slamming, but in a clinch.