Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #150 ~ Lovely Weather For A Tray Ride Together - Page 16

leonana · 01-31-2007, 05:03 PM

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

Sorry lemon - good try, but there is not an iota evidence in WBB and the episodes following that Lorelai still had any feelings for Chris, save contempt at his weakness and perfidy.

ITA. The only reason Chris became a possibility in S7 was because Luke screwed up in S6.

Going by the kitchen scene, I would say that Lorelai loves Chris as much as Luke. However, the letter, imo, is contradictory to that. As I've posted before, the letter spoke about Luke's very soul. As I watched SP's face as he realized how much Lorelai loved him, I, as the viewer, also realized how much Lorelai loved him. I thought the letter was written beautifully, the scene was wonderful, and I think SP deserves a emmy for it. Fantastic acting on his part. In order to reconcile the two scenes, I'm going with the belief that Chris is Lorelai's second choice, but she's doing her best to make the marriage work. It's official, I've quit flip-flopping on the matter, and I'm taking a definite side. Well, unless the show proves me wrong later, lol.

I'm very excited about RRK writing ep. 13, imo she's the only one that really has the GG voice down. I thought the scene with Emily and Lorelai was fantastic, and reminded me of vintage GG. I'm really looking forward to the next ep.

lilmelodie · 01-31-2007, 05:04 PM

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

I don't think it's realistic or true to the show to suggest that Lorelai loves Chris and Luke exactly the same and could go "either way." She blew it with Luke, in part because she did not believe that he really loved and trusted her. She knows that Luke is "over" her. That part of her life is a done deal - no looking back.

And here is Chris - a changed man! The go-to guy. Rory's father. The man that her parents always wanted her to marry. And he wants her so badly. She knows that they rushed into this marriage, but I see someone working very hard to make it work. Working too hard. I believe Lorelai cares deeply for Chris, her childhood playmate and Rory's father, and maybe she even does love him, but not like she loved Luke. And what is so clear in her letter is how much she respects Luke. It's not even possible to imagine her saying the things about Luke that she has said about Chris (weak, never not stupid, dopey), and. sadly for Chris, the reverse is true, too.

But she is clearly willing to settle with Chris and be a good partner to him. But it looks to me like Chris is going to end up being the same irresponsible guy he has always been - who disappears on their family for 2-3 days?? - and that it's not going to work between them because she doesn't want to "cut up his meat" for him.

I agree. I just can't see that Lorelai could go either way with this. I see her trying really hard to make it work. But Christopher is right, he's her second choice, her rebound. The letter Lorelai wrote was so good because it showed how much she does still care about Luke. During that fight she was backpedaling and digging and desperate to not rock the boat because she's so afraid of being alone for the rest of her life. She has said throughout the series that she doesn't want to end up alone. I think her relationship with Chris is all about that. Things went really wrong with Luke and she doesn't want it to happen again, but she's still making some of the same mistakes and I think that this breakup is going to give her a lot to think about.

caf123 · 01-31-2007, 05:08 PM

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

Really? Are we sure of this? I didn't realize Chris had actually ended things with Lorelai. I thought he was having a hissy fit.

Heee. Good point.

Face it, until we hear what Christopher says and what Lorelai says, we don't know who ends it, we don't even know who wants it to end or who wants to try again. This is all sheer spec - with a smidgen of spoilers, but half this thread finds those spoilers implausible.

Thank heavens there's only two weeks until we hear the words come out of their own mouths. You'all give me a reason to actually anticipate a C/L scene.

notoutforawalk · 01-31-2007, 05:55 PM

*taptaptap*
Is this thing on? Or has everyone gone to wander around the BG boards?

I think it is interesting that Lorelai and Rory are both hanging out in Richard's room, since Lorelai had such an issue even going in last time. I also find it odd that Lorelai seems to be wigging more than her mother this time. Hopefully, this means an awesome KB scene will pop up at some point in this episode. (Although, my mother tends to do the exact same kind of repress and deal, so I shouldn't be surprised.)

I can't believe they didn't give us even a hint of Logan's presence in the promo. I thought he was considered a good ratings grabber? I would think so, anyway. (Of course, I am going to lose my LL shipper card, because I hate the idea that the promo is putting forth- Luke shows up, Chris doesn't, naturally Lorelai ping pongs back. I don't get that from the spoilers or the show itself. Just the promo. Blech. Can we vote on getting new promo monkeys?

lancer1993 · 01-31-2007, 06:00 PM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

How can numbers disagree like this?

For the record - including Mag's sources, we have three takes on last night's ratings:

I only have last week's zap2it, which shows an increase of 2/10ths (insignificant). While the other two sources are more upbeat, all three give different numbers.

Maybe someone else can make something of them, I'm too tired.

Some round up or down so 4.26 can got 4.2 or 4.3, JMO

We have to wait about a week for the final numbers, last week they were 3.65 which at one point was down to 3.6 but in the end was 3.72.

ETA - Melodie ITA the reason Lorelai eloped in France and didn't wait is she wanted to be married and didn't want to be talked out of it, she didn't want to be 39 and single still. Irony now is she will be 39 and divorced!

caf123 · 01-31-2007, 06:08 PM

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Originally Posted by lancer1993 (View Post)

Some round up or down so 4.26 can got 4.2 or 4.3, JMO

We have to wait about a week for the final numbers, last week they were 3.65 which at one point was down to 3.6 but in the end was 3.72.

My point was that we have to compare like with like - compare fast nationals with fast nationals, and 18-49 totals with 18-49 totals not with all viewers ... which are easy to confuse.

I know they round, but 4.26 would always round up to 4.3. I think the .5 goes up too, but it might depend on the full number.

Do you have any like-to-like comparisons between last week and this week, in your CIP treasure trove of data?

jalapeno_wildchild · 01-31-2007, 06:08 PM

when will it be decided on when or if there's going to be an 8th season?

caf123 · 01-31-2007, 06:10 PM

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Originally Posted by jalapeno_wildchild (View Post)

when will it be decided on when or if there's going to be an 8th season?

That's up to the CW and the studio. They could announce it tomorrow, or they could pull a Seventh Heaven.

lemon tart · 01-31-2007, 06:15 PM

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

Really? Are we sure of this? I didn't realize Chris had actually ended things with Lorelai. I thought he was having a hissy fit.

Well, he's apparently having another hissy fit in the next episode. How many hissy fits = abandoning his marriage?

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

True, it's a situation that would never happen. But I see regrets -- SSS was one big Lorelai-wondering-what-if episode, IMO. And I saw absolutely none of that in season 5 or season 6, when she encountered Christopher. I saw a SMIDGE of it in Partings, at FND, but I attributed to the fact that she was deeply hurting. I think there are regrets flying all over the place now, and episode 13 is going to play on that.

Also, on this, S3 is full of regrets, anger & angst on Lorelai's part over broken promises of a single night with Chris. She thought they were finally getting their "chance" and then he finds out Sherry's pregnant. From LGCD, 3.01, & HL, 3.02, to TtDE, 3.06, all the way to DEAR, 3.13. Lorelai's romantic storyline all through most of S3 is about her regrets over the loss of her chance with Chris. You don't hang onto the hope for a chance and then so fully jump at it that you're that worked over without deeply loving someone.

To talk about how Lorelai feels about Chris you can't just talk about S5 forward, it's the entire canon of the show. She loves both men a great deal. And the only reason she could move on so quickly with Chris, after Luke, is because of how much she's always loved him, no matter if it's something she's going to run off and give into at that moment.

notoutforawalk · 01-31-2007, 06:23 PM

I don't think it is another hissy fit, so much as a continuation of the same hissy fit.

lancer1993 · 01-31-2007, 06:41 PM

Caf I have links and numbers from a range of forums all in the spoilers for each ep (probably not the best place but I decided to keep it all together) and the numbers change, I don't know if you can compare. The final numbers usually include DVR watcher which IMO should have pushed last week over 4 but it was only 3.72, maybe they didn't know it was new so didn't even bother recording.

OT - What they're gonna put 7th down, finally!!!

leonana · 01-31-2007, 06:51 PM

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Originally Posted by lemon tart (View Post)

Well, he's apparently having another hissy fit in the next episode. How many hissy fits = abandoning his marriage?

Also, on this, S3 is full of regrets, anger & angst on Lorelai's part over broken promises of a single night with Chris. She thought they were finally getting their "chance" and then he finds out Sherry's pregnant. From LGCD, 3.01, & HL, 3.02, to TtDE, 3.06, all the way to DEAR, 3.13. Lorelai's romantic storyline all through most of S3 is about her regrets over the loss of her chance with Chris. You don't hang onto the hope for a chance and then so fully jump at it that you're that worked over without deeply loving someone.

To talk about how Lorelai feels about Chris you can't just talk about S5 forward, it's the entire canon of the show. She loves both men a great deal. And the only reason she could move on so quickly with Chris, after Luke, is because of how much she's always loved him, no matter if it's something she's going to run off and give into at that moment.

Except that she never had time to get over Luke. Even if she loves Chris the same as Luke, she can't jump into a relationship with him without first getting over the end of her relationship with Luke. It's not how human beings work, you can't switch the feelings on and off like a faucet. So either she never loved Luke, which I don't believe, or she never dealt with her feelings for him, and thus jumped into a relationship with Chris to avoid pain.

caf123 · 01-31-2007, 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by lemon tart (View Post)

You don't hang onto the hope for a chance and then so fully jump at it that you're that worked over without deeply loving someone.

You can hold onto a childhood dream, you can hold onto fears or self-doubts. You can hold onto many other feelings than deep love. People aren't so one-dimensional.

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To talk about how Lorelai feels about Chris you can't just talk about S5 forward, it's the entire canon of the show.

The canon of the show was her 16-year-old childhood decision - part of that was her recognition that Christopher was not the man she needed, that she and Rory couldn't make it with him weighing them down. Her parents wanted her to marry him. Society presents that image of the perfect biological family. She had struggled to make it on her own. It's not surprising she hung onto a wish that things could be different. Or deluded herself that if only Christopher would ever grow up, they might be.

One issue with this show is whether ASP allowed Lorelai to grow at all, especially after we first met her - when Rory is 16 and she has more opportunity to start living her own life again. In the first season, she meets and becomes engaged - allows a man to stay over for the first time - and it isn't clear whether she can't let him in because her bond with Rory is too tight, because he's clueless about Rory, or because she and Max really aren't meant to be and the motivating love just isn't there.

She breaks their engagement badly - no one would argue with that - but it's been a growing experience for her, stepping back out into the world she put on hold when Rory was born.

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She loves both men a great deal.

This has yet to be seen. It's possible, we should let it play out first.

Ironically, DSR could decide to go either way. We're debating whether Lorelai really loves Christopher - in reality, that would already exist or not. On TV, the showrunnner has possibly just made up his mind about this. Heh.

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And the only reason she could move on so quickly with Chris, after Luke, is because of how much she's always loved him, no matter if it's something she's going to run off and give into at that moment.

Lorelai has never had a problem moving on so quickly. The perfect mix of caffeine and genetics. This doesn't prove a long-lasting love, more likely the opposite.

clmorrow · 01-31-2007, 06:55 PM

I was thinking about how this whole L/L reunion can seem believeable in a period of time that could seem too short. And, I realized that I actually can draw on my own personal experience which I hadn't thought of before.

But, doing so, I realized that when you end a relationship with someone you are still in love with and don't have contact with them for months and then only have a few awkward moments with that person, you can get seriously involved with someone else. And, when that blows up, and you find yourself back in situations where you are spending more time with the person you loved (the first guy), suppressed/dormant feelings can quickly be triggered again.

I think key to Lorelai's moving on so rapidly was that she was completely out of touch with Luke for a long while. She didn't even see him at all - going so far as saying she would live with the big stink as long as she didn't have to see him.

After the next episode, if she begins to go back to the diner and starts to talk with him more, I can see how those feelings could come roaring back in a big way in not too long a period of time.

She didn't end her relationship with Luke because she wasn't in love with him anymore so I could see this happening. It does happen in real life.

nst · 01-31-2007, 07:03 PM

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Originally Posted by ckomodo (View Post)

So Lorelai loves two men, well that's convenient. So it's not that she was engaged to one man in May and married to a different man by November and that no human being can turn their feelings off and on so quickly and still be healthy. It's just that she loved both, gave a shot at marriage with the one who she didn't love any more then the other (even though the other was available and interested) and when that didn't pan out, married the other one (even though the first one showed up with his truck and said, let's elope right now). That's all it is, not that she in fact truely loved the first and was sad and disappointed and distraught and the other just dated her and proposed anyway and is now complaining about her maybe still having feelings for the first and about being the second choice (because he isn't, she loved them both equally right?). It certainly can't be that she was so sad about losing the first that she compromised and settled because she was scared she would never have the whole package and this way Rory and Gigi get a family, except that now try as she might something is missing and even dopey other senses it and of course, instead of giving it time and giving her a break, blames her for letting him jump the gun with the relationship and sees it all from a selfish stand point? No, can't be that.

i think she is in denial and i agree with you