Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #144 ~ GG - Welcome To The Dark Side - Page 17

Rebeccajill · 01-23-2007, 09:26 PM

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Originally Posted by El286 (View Post)

Family. That was one of the reasons I really liked this episode, because I could see the two dynamics in a way I haven't been able to during other episodes. There's Chris, Gigi, and Rory: and Luke and April. And Lorelai--torn between two different families. Though to me, Christopher and Gigi are Lorelai and Rory's "real" family. No amount of absence or wishful thinking is going to change the fact that Chris is Rory's dad and Gigi is Rory's half-sister. Luke--there's a connection there based on his presence in their lives. But April--she's got a mom already: she doesn't need a stepmom. A mom who, for some reason, she doesn't seem too interested in being with. Perhaps because her mother has been turned into a jealous, irrational two-dimensional character whose only purpose is to frustrate Luke and Lorelai's romance?

I won't hide the fact that the major appeal of Chris and Lorelai, for me, is the idea of a deadbeat dad maturing and finally being there for his daughter and winning back the love of his high school sweetheart. I like seeing characters redeemed. And I know most of you don't believe that Chris has changed at all, but I loved seeing him bond with Rory and Gigi at the end of the episode. He's trying, for sure. Whether the writers have any interest in letting him show permanent growth is another story.

No matter how much Luke's done for Lorelai or what he's meant to her, it's a terrible time and place for Chris to find out. I don't blame Chris for being insecure about the letter. Seeing that kind of letter back in Season 1 would be one thing, seeing it in Season 7 after Lorelai married him and patted him on the back about his fathering skills is another thing.

Great post. And I definitely agree about the timing of the letter.

And I also like seeing characters redeemed. And what better character than Christopher, especially for Rory.

Sandlynn · 01-23-2007, 09:26 PM

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Originally Posted by catkirk7 (View Post)

The gift discussion in the mall was actually revisionist. Although it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. If Luke had "never forgot a birthday" and had been buying her monogrammed unicorns all her life then why was Rory so suprised when he baked the cake and blew up balloons for her 16th? But it wasn't as bad as I thought and it's only Lorelai saying he was a father figure so, whatever.

I took that comment about being father-like to Rory exactly the way I had earlier specced. Lorelai is taking her guilt and remorse over her break-up with Luke and channeling it and projecting it into everything, including her letter claiming that Luke was like a father to Rory. Rory never said that, so it's not so. He gave her birthday gifts, but everyone in Stars Hollow did at the one birthday we actually saw. It wasn't anything above and beyond what everyone else was doing. He gave her monograms and unicorns? Where was the kitty crap he always gives women. The writers really missed out on the continuity there.

Rory seems somewhat disengaged from this and more concerned that her mother is lying to her father.

What I find amusing is that they've totally castrated Luke. He's no longer snarky and funny. He's being written like a combination of Phil Donahue. Mister Rogers, and Mother Theresa. "Oh April, we can't lie to your mother. Oh, we can't say anything about Lane's condition. Oh, of course we can take your rock polisher back. Oh, you can't come here without your mom knowing." Soon, he'll be wearing a loin cloth and rebelling about the British. By taking the bite out of him, they're making him boring. (I guess this is the set-up to make it okay for Lorelai to dump her husband for Luke.)

2ggObsessed · 01-23-2007, 09:29 PM

Genki if you are still around, you have a PM.

Tara Ashley · 01-23-2007, 09:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Sandlynn (View Post)

What I find amusing is that they've totally castrated Luke. He's no longer snarky and funny. He's being written like a combination of Phil Donahue. Mister Rogers, and Mother Theresa. "Oh April, we can't lie to your mother. Oh, we can't say anything about Lane's condition. Oh, of course we can take your rock polisher back. Oh, you can't come here without your mom knowing." Soon, he'll be wearing a loin cloth and rebelling about the British. By taking the bite out of him, they're making him boring. (I guess this is the set-up to make it okay for Lorelai to dump her husband for Luke.)

On the contrary. My post from the LL thread:

"I think I've fallen in love with Luke all over again.

You know what I love the most about him? How he has gracefully managed to forgive Lorelai (not that there aren't things she has to forgive him for, just saying) and he's able to accept that she's "moved on" without holding any sort of grudge against her. It will always be my view that she hurt him more than he hurt her -- so to see him be so kind to her and normal with her and just, I don't know, decent in his all around character, is so endearing. He's not playing the blame game or overly hurting or wasting his time worrying about what could have been; instead, he's focusing on the important things in his life, and he's being such a wonderful dad. That's not to say that I think he's over Lorelai or that he doesn't care about all that happened. Because I know he still loves her as much as he ever did. I just think he's matured so beautifully this season and has become such a good, genuine person. I am so impressed with him.

End silly speech."

But I'm a sucker for Luke.

damselfly · 01-23-2007, 09:38 PM

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Originally Posted by lemon tart (View Post)

Because HE brought it up. He finally was realizing what he'd done and she dismissed it. Pretty much told him it didn't matter. Encouraged him to not do the same with Gigi? Which might have happened but I've blocked it out.

I read the transcript to see, and it still feels as though she was trying to make him feel better, not dismissing his concerns. It was more about Rory though, and how he didn't need to try so hard, to just be himself rather than trying to be superdad to make up for lost time, and reassuring him that he still had time.

bec99 · 01-23-2007, 09:39 PM

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Originally Posted by notoutforawalk (View Post)

Yep. I think you are right Lemon. Of course, I think that plays into some of the things that weren't resolved in the Lorelai and Rory rift.

not (or lemon), how so? (I think a link to the rift would be very interesting, but I'm not fully following the association you're making.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele286

I won't hide the fact that the major appeal of Chris and Lorelai, for me, is the idea of a deadbeat dad maturing and finally being there for his daughter and winning back the love of his high school sweetheart. I like seeing characters redeemed. And I know most of you don't believe that Chris has changed at all, but I loved seeing him bond with Rory and Gigi at the end of the episode. He's trying, for sure. Whether the writers have any interest in letting him show permanent growth is another story.

ele, I wonder if TPTB understood just how contentious this whole topic would be when they started this mess? That what you find appealing is what I find disturbing. I'm all for redemption, but redemption isn't a time machine do-over.

lilmelodie · 01-23-2007, 09:42 PM

Hey, I know that people are being bothered by the keeping of spoilers in the shipper threads. I don't like it, but I understand why it's being done. It's been a little tense in here lately. Anyways, I figured I'd share the pictures and a little bit about the tour I went on. I went on tour Monday, but we didn't get into any of the soundstages due to construction of swing sets. So it was virtually impossible to get any spoilers. Plus our guide obviously didn't know much about GG since he thought ASP was still the EP. He was a very cool guide though. I'm sure if we'd been able to get on the soundstages we might have gotten some info. FWIW, the chuppah is back in Lorelai's yard. It's in a weird place, in front of the garage, but it's there. Whatever that means. Pictures

lancer1993 · 01-23-2007, 09:49 PM

So Lorelai and Chris both say the ep title.

Nice touch to have Luke tell April not to lie, goes well with Rory tell Lorelai to tell Chris.

ArleneAM · 01-23-2007, 09:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

On the contrary. My post from the LL thread:

"I think I've fallen in love with Luke all over again.

You know what I love the most about him? How he has gracefully managed to forgive Lorelai (not that there aren't things she has to forgive him for, just saying) and he's able to accept that she's "moved on" without holding any sort of grudge against her. It will always be my view that she hurt him more than he hurt her -- so to see him be so kind to her and normal with her and just, I don't know, decent in his all around character, is so endearing. He's not playing the blame game or overly hurting or wasting his time worrying about what could have been; instead, he's focusing on the important things in his life, and he's being such a wonderful dad. That's not to say that I think he's over Lorelai or that he doesn't care about all that happened. Because I know he still loves her as much as he ever did. I just think he's matured so beautifully this season and has become such a good, genuine person. I am so impressed with him.

End silly speech."

But I'm a sucker for Luke.

ok guys as someone who has not watched a SINGLE epsiode this year until tonight's .... I found Luke to be LUKE.. especailly the scene with Micheal.
If you recall Luke was always protective of Rory when it was just the 2 of them... He is just no longer as Nervous as he once was.
I can't wait to see Luke running earns for Emily

lastly the one thing Luke did to hurt his relationstip with Lorelai is keep April from her. Although he is not inviting her along on outings he is starting to share that part of his life with her.

MickeyJr3000 · 01-23-2007, 09:58 PM

I guess some of us who specced that Lorelai would say "Luke was like a father to Rory" were right.
(Whether or not Rory would agree to that is a different discussion for a different day)

Thanks for everything guys! 6 minutes til AA-Do you think he'll have anything for us?

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Also...is it just me or was there a parallel between her answering definitively"yes" several times to his question before he actually accepted her answer...kind of like when she proposed to him.

LORELAI: Luke, will you marry me?
LUKE: What?
LORELAI: Luke. Will you -
LUKE: Yes.
LORELAI: Well, you don't have to answer so -
LUKE: Yes.
LORELAI: Well, you can take a minute to -
LUKE: No.

In addition: My take on anvils here--

6.01, Luke says "Yes, Yes, No." --> Final result, L/L don't get married, they break up in 6.22. Lorelai popped the question first (6.01). When she asked Luke again in 6.22, Luke ended up saying no.
7.11, Lorelai says "Yes, Yes, Yes" --> Final result, L/L DO get married ??? Luke pops 'the question' first (7.11, he's asking Lorelai a favour). So does this mean that Luke's gonna pop the WYMM question? And Lorelai will say yes?

caf123 · 01-23-2007, 10:00 PM

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Originally Posted by bec99 (View Post)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele286

I won't hide the fact that the major appeal of Chris and Lorelai, for me, is the idea of a deadbeat dad maturing and finally being there for his daughter and winning back the love of his high school sweetheart. I like seeing characters redeemed. And I know most of you don't believe that Chris has changed at all, but I loved seeing him bond with Rory and Gigi at the end of the episode. He's trying, for sure. Whether the writers have any interest in letting him show permanent growth is another story.

ele, I wonder if TPTB understood just how contentious this whole topic would be when they started this mess? That what you find appealing is what I find disturbing. I'm all for redemption, but redemption isn't a time machine do-over.

It could be an appealing story somewhere, but Christopher is the wrong candidate. And if he ever had that potential, this season destroyed it.

As ASP said, "When Lorelai's life is going too well, we give Christopher a call."

Add a new network with an avowed interest in sexing up storylines - voila, a perfect storm. ASP wanted to show a C/L relationship. We'll never know if that included marriage or what she would have done with Gigi. Her treatment of Christopher/Rory last year was remarkably superficial. And the shock horror soap quotient rose rapidly at the end of her reign.

She also neglected to sign Christopher for Rory's gradation. That's a honkin' huge anvil of her intentions.

Some viewers find a Christopher redemption appealing, most find it no longer believable - but a great many viewers from single-parent families, especially younger ones, have now had their vulnerabilities jerked about in the name of 'good drama'. It's not the job of TV to send moral messages, but nor is it right to betray such viewers like this. IMO, it's unforgiveable.

notoutforawalk · 01-23-2007, 10:05 PM

Part of the rift (on Rory's side) was caused by Lorelai's inability to let her "be a grown up" and decide for herself if she wanted to go back to school. Tonight was the second mention of Lorelai treating her like a kid. (The first was during the big reveal about the LC hook-up in Partings.) Now, by not taking Rory's advice, Lorelai has caused yet another blow up between herself and Chris. In the past Rory has always taken Lorelai's side, but I think with her fear of Chris bailing again and Lorelai ignoring her advice, Rory is going to take it out on her mother. I think Rory is going to be the one to call Lorelai on her my way or the highway attitude and her impetuous decision making.

I am curious about Rory's weirdness with Gigi. I totally get the weirdness of suddenly having to give up your antlers to the kid sister you never saw until last year. But there were several points where Rory sort of looked at her like, "Umm. Ok, little alien." Then at the end of the episode she's just over it? OK. I would have liked even one little throw away line indicating that it was weird for her, but cool too. Or something. I don't know. It just felt like something was missing there.

As alway, milage will vary.

gilmore_maniac · 01-23-2007, 10:07 PM

Yay! Grey's won best drama at the Globes! - Ask Ausiello | TVGuide.com

whoa

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Question: You've been stingy with Gilmore Girls scoop lately. Tell the truth: Is it because you got in trouble after Whispergate?— Christina
Ausiello: Me? In trouble? Pshaw. Next to Isaiah Washington's Golden Globes meltdown, Whispergate was the best thing to happen to my career. I thank the gods every day for giving me the gift of Whispergate. Heck, if it wasn't for all the increased visibility that Whispergate brought me, a heavily imbedded Gilmore Girls source probably wouldn't have come up to me at press tour and revealed that (Massive spoiler alert) David Rosenthal is seriously considering ending the season (or series?) with Lorelai and Luke not only married but expecting a baby. Which leads me to my next piece of scoop….

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Question: Great job at the Globes, but you've been very negligent with Gilmore Girls recently. Please give us some more scoop that doesn't involve the death of a pet!— Grace
Ausiello: Fair enough. The buzz in Stars Hollow is that the key to an eighth season may rest in Alexis Bledel's petite hands. Unlike Lauren Graham, who appears to be somewhat amenable to the idea of continuing on for another year, Bledel is proving a tougher sell. As a result, Warner Bros. and the CW are allegedly developing a Plan B that would focus an eighth season on Lorelai, Luke and their new baby, with the occasional sweeps-month guest appearance by Rory. Wow, that sounds like a disaster.

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Question: Do you know how Gilmore Girls plans to deal with Melissa McCarthy's pregnancy?— Katherine
Ausiello: Scoop! They're dealing with it by making Sookie pregnant for a third time. Not sure how Dave R. is gonna pull that one off, considering Jackson had that vasectomy and all. Maybe Taylor's the daddy? I kid. I kid.

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Question: Any news about Milo and Alexis getting back together?— Esther Ortiz
Ausiello: Clearly, someone didn't watch my red-carpet interview with Milo. (On the off chance your computer lacks video capabilities, Milo confirmed that they are not back together.)

Tara Ashley · 01-23-2007, 10:11 PM

Thanks gilmore maniac! Wow did MA deliver or what.

Mots15 · 01-23-2007, 10:16 PM

Don't forget this one for the R/L crowd:

Question: Any scoop for Rory and Logan?— Mel K.

Ausiello: Yeah, but it might make you ill. Matt Czuchry thinks Rory and Logan should eventually (yikes!) go their separate ways. "I would love to see Rory single at the end. I just feel like that's the way the show began, with the mother-daughter relationship. It's kind of like Sex and the City with Sarah Jessica Parker and the big question of, 'What is she going to do at the end?' I thought she should have been by herself, because that was the whole through-line of the show. The most important thing for me is that Rory and Lorelai are there together at the end. It should be about the Gilmore girls and them going forward." You know what? As much as I love Logan and Rory, I kinda agree with him.