Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #130 ~ We're Still Waiting For Santa - Page 2

secret life · 01-04-2007, 05:44 PM

Thank you blaab!

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Originally Posted by elduccia

Luke was always there for them but he most certantly wasn't like a father for Rory. He did not get in any way involved in her education - which is a huge part of being a parent - he mostly supported Rory and her mother with practical help and by not asking anything in return.

My hope is that Lorelai will highlight how reliable, solid, and supporting in a quiet but constant way Luke is as a person, which most certantly is a quality that, as a father for April, will matter a lot.

That post was from the previous thread. Just wanted to say that it expresses my sentiments too.

About Chris's reaction to Lorelai's letter: I'm not sure that he'll necessarily take it as a rib about his parenting of Rory (after all, we don't know what's in the letter yet), or that he'll feel slighted that Luke had a role in Rory's life. Maybe. But he'll probably become upset because the letter would reveal what Lorelai thinks of Luke as a person. Especially since he harbors ill feelings for the guy (and vice-versa for Luke) and given their fist fight in 7.10. It's also difficult to get over the idea that Lorelai loved and was once engaged to Luke, and him comparing himself to Luke was beginning to show in recent episodes (for example, Lorelai not wanting a wedding party for her and Chris, but her readiness to go through the whole shebang with Luke). He may be okay with Lorelai being friends with Luke (he was okay with her going to the hospital to see Luke and April), but to actually see in writing what she thinks about Luke and his role in her and Rory's life...well, that's got to suck.

To me it's a human response to get upset (I would be). But I guess I'd have to see how Lorelai reassures or responds to Chris after his discovery of her letter, and Chris's further response in succeeding episodes, to say any more.

secret life · 01-04-2007, 05:54 PM

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Originally Posted by nola (View Post)

Also, i know there is usually some sort of relevance to the titles working themselves into the theme of the episode.... ep. 713 had me wondering that.

Isn't Jess in Philly...please someone tell me I'm wrongand that it's about A Philadelphia story....

BTW...thanks for the new thread!!!

"I'd rather be dead than in Philadelphia" is a well-known expression of some famous American media personality (I've forgotten who). We know that 7.13 is about Richard's health crisis, so it has been speculated that the title is about that (i.e., I'd rather be in Philadelphia than be dead). Hope I got that right, heh. Not familiar with the quote myself.

I think the last nail has been hammered in to the nth degree in the Jess coffin, Nola.

tazzded · 01-04-2007, 06:07 PM

Thanks blaab

**Katiegg108** · 01-04-2007, 06:16 PM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

I'm thinking that somehow Luke gets involved in this whole thing with Emily and Lorelai is no where in sight - not initially. For some reason, I don't think he and Lorelai will wind up getting to the hospital together - I've got nothin' more than a gut feeling on this - don't know why.

I kind of like the idea of Luke off doing stuff for Emily without Lorelai knowing about it - not until much later anyway.

That was my spec before the new spoilers. I thought maybe Luke would be at the hospital for DNA confirmation or something and bump into Emily before the girls got there.

But if it's just Luke/Emily for awhile, what's a logical spec to explain that. There's not even a really logical way to speculate about him getting there with Lorelai. It's all so confusing.

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Originally Posted by SecretLife

About Chris's reaction to Lorelai's letter: I'm not sure that he'll necessarily take it as a rib about his parenting of Rory (after all, we don't know what's in the letter yet), or that he'll feel slighted that Luke had a role in Rory's life. Maybe. But he'll probably become upset because the letter would reveal what Lorelai thinks of Luke as a person. Especially since he harbors ill feelings for the guy (and vice-versa for Luke) and given their fist fight in 7.10. It's also difficult to get over the idea that Lorelai loved and was once engaged to Luke, and him comparing himself to Luke was beginning to show in recent episodes (for example, Lorelai not wanting a wedding party for her and Chris, but her readiness to go through the whole shebang with Luke). He may be okay with Lorelai being friends with Luke (he was okay with her going to the hospital to see Luke and April), but to actually see in writing what she thinks about Luke and his role in her and Rory's life...well, that's got to suck.

The description did say that Lorelai realizes "how important Luke has always been in Rory's life." and then is "inspired." so that really makes it seem like she's going to end up writing quite a bit about Luke/Rory. I do hope though that she doesn't use any phrases about how "Luke was like a father to Rory." That would be just too much, IMO, and just crush Chris so much. But she'll probably go on how he was there, and list off things Luke did for Rory.(And please let them be things we've seen or heard off, I just want no creative liberty with the timeline on this one).

But ITA with how once Chris reads this stuff, it's going to show that he's not ok with her interacting with Luke as he maybe thought he was, or maybe that there more to it all then he thought there was. And reading Lorelai talk so highly of the guy, and about his own daughter's interaction with Luke. I've said this so much today, but seriously, this sucks for Chris. i'm going to feel so bad for the guy. I hate feeling bad for Chris, it's against my nature to sympathize with the guy. But this SL is going to make me... he's been trying now and trying to make up for things... and to have it all just blow up like that.

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To me it's a human response to get upset (I would be). But I guess I'd have to see how Lorelai reassures or responds to Chris after his discovery of her letter, and Chris's further response in succeeding episodes, to say any more.

For some reason I see Lorelai not really being able to reassure Chris. She might yell at him to stop, or "Chris..." him to calm him down. But I'd love to see him want her to tell him things she wrote weren't true, etc, or that she's not over Luke or something, and her just not be able tell him that they're not true, or to make it less than it comes off on paper, because it, whatever she writes, will be totally honest, IMO.

ETA: B/c I made something sound totally different than what I meant.

lancer1993 · 01-04-2007, 06:20 PM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

I'm thinking that somehow Luke gets involved in this whole thing with Emily and Lorelai is no where in sight - not initially. For some reason, I don't think he and Lorelai will wind up getting to the hospital together - I've got nothin' more than a gut feeling on this - don't know why.

I kind of like the idea of Luke off doing stuff for Emily without Lorelai knowing about it - not until much later anyway.

So maybe Luke goes to thank Lorelai, can't find her and then finds out the Richard is sick and maybe asks "what can I do to help"?

ETA - Do we think Chris would do anything down the track to hurt Luke by going to the police just out of revenge, it's unlikely but until that final scene plays in season 7 (or 8) I wouldn't put anything past DSR.

clmorrow · 01-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Why would she take back something she wrote about Luke being a good friend and helpful to them when they needed it? If Chris is that insecure then so be it - for someone who had the sympathy of a flea to show up and behave as he did in WBB, I won't be feeling sorry for him.

And, really, why would Lorelai write that Luke was a father figure if Rory already had a father figure - Chris. Because if Chris were really there a lot for Rory, there would be no need for someone to be a father figure to her other than him. (I've never bought into the idea of Luke as a father figure - only a good friend to them.)

It would incredibly petty of him to get pissed off that Luke was there to help them out - when, in reality, he should be glad to know someone was helping them when they needed help.

Since the letter will be being read simultaneously by the judge and by Chris, thankfully there can be no tinkering with the letter as some has earlier specced might happen. It's a done deal as far as the letter goes. Nothin' Chris can do to about it. Aahh...

damselfly · 01-04-2007, 06:29 PM

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Originally Posted by katiegg

But if it's just Luke/Emily for awhile, what's a logical spec to explain that. There's not even a really logical way to speculate about him getting there with Lorelai. It's all so confusing.

The logical spec to me is that Luke is at the hospital with Lane, when he runs into Emily -- and Lorelai is still on her way in.

secret life · 01-04-2007, 06:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Katiegg108 (View Post)

The description did say that Lorelai realizes "how important Luke has always been in Rory's life." and then is "inspired." so that really makes it seem like she's going to end up writing quite a bit about Luke/Rory. I do hope though that she doesn't use any phrases about how "Luke was like a father to Rory." That would be just too much, IMO, and just crush Chris so much. But she'll probably go on how he was there, and list off things Luke did for Rory.(And please let them be things we've seen or heard off, I just want no creative liberty with the timeline on this one).

Again, maybe. Not necessarily. Lorelai can write more about how Luke is as a person, using terms such as dependable, supportive, meets obligations, knows the importance of family (e.g. Liz and TJ) or whatnot. (How he prioritized his own daughter over his marriage to her, for heaven's sake. Maybe her epiphany will have something to do with her understanding why he did this, finally.) She may use Rory to provide examples, but the letter doesn't have to be about Luke and Rory per se. I hope it isn't.

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For some reason I see Lorelai not really being able to reassure Chris. She might yell at him to stop, or "Chris..." him to calm him down. But I'd love to see him want her to tell him things she wrote weren't true, etc, or that she's not over Luke or something, and her just not be able to take back what she wrote, because it, whatever she writes, will be totally honest, IMO.

Of course. Whatever happens, I think Chris will be written off negatively, forever the immature one. Part of me harbors the wish that Chris would come off as the bigger guy in this, and/or that he and Lorelai end their relationship mutually and amicably, that his relationship with Rory can be salvaged.

The timelines that have been speculated seem so...fast. Divorce papers being written up in 7.14-7.16? That's crazy.

Lady_Amalcia · 01-04-2007, 06:38 PM

I am so praying for Emily to finally see who Luke really is.
Realize why he is Mr.Right for Lorelai and that breeding + money is not everything.
Because as we know it´s in such times that you get aware of the people you can count on.

Also-
What will happen between Rory and Chris after reading the letter.I am sure she will tell Rory what she wrote, probably she´ll agree.
That would be very bad for Chris, but then again.The door was, as Lorelai said"Always open", but he never came in.

lancer1993 · 01-04-2007, 06:41 PM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

Why would she take back something she wrote about Luke being a good friend and helpful to them when they needed it? If Chris is that insecure then so be it - for someone who had the sympathy of a flea to show up and behave as he did in WBB, I won't be feeling sorry for him.

And, really, why would Lorelai write that Luke was a father figure if Rory already a father figure - Chris? Because if Chris were really there a lot for Rory, there would be no need for someone to be a father figure to her other than him. (I've never bought into the idea of Luke as a father figure - only a good friend to them.)

It would incredibly petty of him to get pissed off that Luke was there to help them out - when, in reality, he should be glad to know someone was helping them when they needed help.

Since the letter will be being read simultaneously by the judge and by Chris, thankfully there can be no tinkering with the letter as some has earlier specced might happen. It's a done deal as far as the letter goes. Nothin' Chris can do to about it. Aahh...

Again until we get more spoilers we DON'T know what Lorelai wrote, just that it was good for Luke and how he was with Rory and Lorelai.

She won't take back anything in the letter when talking to Chris but might try and re-assure him it doesn't change things with them (this is in ep 12) but later at the hospital something IMO must happen for her to come to the realization that it's over with him unless like I've SPEC'ED for a while it's Chris who does the walking.

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Originally Posted by damselfly (View Post)

The logical spec to me is that Luke is at the hospital with Lane, when he runs into Emily -- and Lorelai is still on her way in.

Since when has logic played a part in the SLs

But I agree it's as good a reason as any why he is there.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Amalcia (View Post)

I am so praying for Emily to finally see who Luke really is.
Realize why he is Mr.Right for Lorelai and that breeding + money is not everything.
Because as we know it´s in such times that you get aware of the people you can count on.

Maybe she gets a copy of the letter also, maybe Lorelai sent it out to everyone in her email address book LOL (if she emailed it)

Tara Ashley · 01-04-2007, 06:58 PM

Can I still vote for when Lorelai goes back to the diner? I vote 7.12

ETA: I apologize for my RL shipper comment earlier; was just frustrated with the negativity/bitterness that so often surfaces.

MickeyJr3000 · 01-04-2007, 07:00 PM

You know what...yeah Christopher might get a huge sock-punch in the gut (or whatever you call it) from reading this letter. I'm sure it's going to hurt him hard ,expecially if he's going to 'read between the lines' to see what the letter says about him (without even being about him).

But I'm not going to feel bad for the guy. He's the same guy who has ran back into Lorelai's live many many times, assuming she's single and will welcome him into her pants. When she was involved with Luke, the doofus insulted and humiliated both Lorelai and Luke (and himself) at the wedding renewal ceremony. Tit for tat. He hurt Luke a whole hell of a lot these past few years, and Luke had done nothing to deserve that in the first place.

So yeah. Luke punched him once, deservedly (who wouldn't punch the guy who just slept with your fiancee??). And now, the emotional sucker punch is coming. And Christopher deserves it anyway. He wouldn't have gotten himself into this mess in the first place, if he had just listened to Lorelai's verbal and nonverbal cues over the past while. But for some reason, the guy just can't LET GO of the fantasy, and had to continue pursuing her even though it wasn't the right time to.

I don't have to point out all the cues he got but missed, since there have been a lot. (Of course, Lorelai may have sent signals sending the other message as well, but the problem is, he ONLY listens to them).

"Rory does not concern you! She's MY daughter. Mine and Lorelai's."
"And I'm with Lorelai!"
"FOR NOW"
"What does that mean, for now. What, is that a threat?"
"Lorelai belong together, everyone knows it, I know it, Emily knows it!!!"

Then he proceeds to beg Lorelai to take him back. Pathetic. But also extremely hurtful to Luke. Add to that, the sucker punches he has given Luke in the past few months and I feel, that any punch, any silly NON-ROMANTIC letter or L/L conversation/interaction that makes Christopher jealous or suspicious, is hardly as detrimental and terrible as the things he's done to hurt others.

So yeah, he'll get hurt, and I'll cheer. Because I know he's got a lot of faults and all, but even though he's human, he's just watching the boomerang coming back to hit him, and he deserves it. And again, it's not like he's witnessing Lorelai dump him after a terrible argument and sleep with Luke the night of. THAT hurts a hell of a lot more than what he's getting.

Man, that Christopher rant was LONG. What else did I want to say? Oh yeah, I'm going to cast my 'vote' in the poll. I say Lorelai's going to go into Luke's in 7.13

Labyrith · 01-04-2007, 07:01 PM

im so excited to here the letter!!!

**Katiegg108** · 01-04-2007, 07:22 PM

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Originally Posted by secret life (View Post)

Again, maybe. Not necessarily. Lorelai can write more about how Luke is as a person, using terms such as dependable, supportive, meets obligations, knows the importance of family (e.g. Liz and TJ) or whatnot. (How he prioritized his own daughter over his marriage to her, for heaven's sake. Maybe her epiphany will have something to do with her understanding why he did this, finally.) She may use Rory to provide examples, but the letter doesn't have to be about Luke and Rory per se. I hope it isn't.

Oh, I totally hope it doesn't focus all that much on Rory, as well. Liz, Jess, April, etc should all be more important to this case then him and Rory. I was just stating what the description seemed to imply. And i'd much rather her just use little specific examples of Luke/Rory things than go on and on about a part in Rory's life that's made to seem bigger than it is.

I'm sure she'll understand a bit more about why Luke did what he did last season a bit better, eventually. She'll have to before LL can work anything out later on later on.

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Of course. Whatever happens, I think Chris will be written off negatively, forever the immature one. Part of me harbors the wish that Chris would come off as the bigger guy in this, and/or that he and Lorelai end their relationship mutually and amicably, that his relationship with Rory can be salvaged.

I hope that the final decision to end things, separate, divorce, whatever it is will be mutual and everything. It would need to be to show growth on Chris's part too. That doesn't mean he has to take the intial "it's over" or "I don't love you" or whatever Lorelai throws at him well. But once he comes to terms with it all, if he's able to handle this amicably and be a bigger guy than he used to be at the end of this, it would be ideal for Chris, Rory and Lorelai to all be able to move on from this all.

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The timelines that have been speculated seem so...fast. Divorce papers being written up in 7.14-7.16? That's crazy.

This is GG, though. I could see them agreeing to a divorce around ep. 15ish, then somehow b/c of the crazy TLs, have them be ready to sign when GG comes back after the spring hiatus. But maybe it's not even legal and this speculation will prove pointless.

Sandlynn · 01-04-2007, 07:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Labyrith (View Post)

im so excited to here the letter!!!

Oh, I'm sure it'll be quite the work of fiction.

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mitton07, I guess if Luke is "violent" then Chris is a drunk, because just like Luke loses his temper (and 99% of the time it's all verbal, and usually funny, and people instead of being scared of it count on it to get things done i.e. get Taylor moving) Chris made a drunken fool of himself at E&R's wedding, so I guess that typecasts him as an alcoholic.

Throwing people physically out of his restaurant is just verbal and funny? Going after bicyclists with a bat is just verbal and funny? Getting in a fight with a teenage boy is just verbal and funny? Pushing his nephew in the pond is just verbal and funny? (Let's leave aside the unprovoked attack on Christopher, since it appears to be okay to hit him.) Luke definitely has violent tendencies that should've had him in Court, if not in jail a number of times. More than just the once when he "beat up a car".

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The Luke rant is his schtick, just like the snappy fast talk is Lorelai's. Oh, and let's not forget the last fight between Chris and Luke, Chris definately started it and was "all in" with it, so I guess he's violent as well as loaded.

Does liquor never touch Luke's lips? I seem to remember an evening when he and Lorelai went out and got completely sloshed and Lorelai thought she might be pregnant -- out of wedlock ... again -- but that's okay. Maybe it's all Lorelai's influence since she has to constantly drink her way through evenings and events involving her parents.

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Luke has never attempted to buy Rory's love and/or forgiveness either. Christopher has done that on more than one occassion.

Yeah, I guess Chris was attempting to buy Rory's love by paying for her education, as was Richard and Emily I'm assuming, because only Luke can do things for Rory in a vaccum. Besides, we all know Chris doesn't really love Rory.

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So the fact that Lorelai got some help, like any human being would, in raising her kid or, even more, in living her own life, means that the canon is being tossed?

Well, canon was that she was Superwoman, doing it all on her own. Now? Not so much.

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Lorelai knows this letter is important. She needs to show how good a father Luke will be to April, yet she hardly got to see him interacting with her, so where does she get her perspective?

Well, that's a pretty interesting point, and quite ironic, don't you think? The one person he wouldn't let anywhere near his daughter for fear that she would steal her affections, he wants to write a letter for him about what a great person he is.

You know, that just really hit me as being the height of gall.

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And I can't wait to see Luke's reaction to it.

I didn't realize these letters could be read in open Court. I thought they were only for the judge's consideration. Another contrivance?

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Do we know whether they will actually show anything of Rory/Logan in London or because the episode is after x-mas, we will only hear about it from Rory?

Of course we won't! It's about Rory and Logan, so it's completely unimportant.

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I think the thing many of us had hoped for with Richard teaching @ Yale & Rory taking his class were scenes like in S4 & S5 with them at lunch or in his office, sprinkled all through the year. Not just in the episode where he apparently collapses in front of her. It seems a waste to have had him there and her taking his class all during the fall for them to have never been on screen together, not once, at Yale. One episode, especially the one where he falls ill, doesn't make up for that.

If ASP were still in charge, we would have definitely seen Richard and Rory interactions at Yale. As any amateur writer knows, building up their interaction on campus would have made his collapse even more poignant and dramatic because we would have witnessed his delight in teaching the other youngin's and Rory.

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I understand that Sophies have self-titled themselves the most jaded group of fans ever, and while I can understand some of your frustrations, the negativity is tiresome.

Pot meet kettle!

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I don't understand the notion that both Luke and Lorelai need to have all their issues ironed out and mended before they can have a successful adult relationship. Who does that? Nobody has all the tools beforehand -- couples learn and grow while they're in the relationship, they don't figure it all out beforehand, and they either work together or grow apart. Once LL both understand what they need to work on -- communication and compromise -- there's no reason they couldn't make it work.

Oh really? And why doesn't this same bit of sage advice hold true for Rory and Logan, two people on this show actually in a relationship, who are growing together? Oh ... I forgot. They have to break up before they can iron out and mend *their* issues because they're not Lorelai and Luke.

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ETA - no one says RL have to separate to figure their lives out. I personally just don't see a marriage for them this season because it's too early for them or at least for Rory. Engagement - I don't know I just don't see it but I don't put much thought into them anyway so it doesn't really matter to me how they will end this season.

I don't care how Lorelai and Luke end this season, but I just wish the writers wouldn't drag Rory into the shrine they're building for Luke.

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Maybe DSR will have them talk in future eps soon and we'll find out once and for all, Geez for a show that prides it's self on how much language is used they don't really talk about much!

Talking's not enough for these people. Didn't they talk in AVV? It's patterns of behavior that have evolved over *years* that's the problem. It's not so easy to break these bad habits. You know the old saying about teaching old dogs new tricks.

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Heaven knows, I’m disgusted with Lorelai this year, but let’s be real here. She didn’t send the troops into Iraq

Neither did Christopher.

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I've always said she will be alone for a time, it may only be 3-4 eps but that is a long time in TV land,

Wow. That's about as long as they were apart after WBB. And, considering that 7.22 will probably be in set in May, that's not much time.

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The description did say that Lorelai realizes "how important Luke has always been in Rory's life."

Which, strangely enough, Rory has never mentioned or shown, herself.

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So yeah, he'll get hurt, and I'll cheer. Because I know he's got a lot of faults and all, but even though he's human, he's just watching the boomerang coming back to hit him, and he deserves it.

He deserves to have his marriage fall to pieces? The one he entered out of love and a desire to commit? In other words, he deserves as much pain as possible.