Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #130 ~ We're Still Waiting For Santa - Page 16

Cappuccino · 01-05-2007, 12:18 PM

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I'd just like to know why the mere suggestion that Luke is/was/may be an important part of Rory's life sends some posters into a cyber version of St Vitus' Dance

How can an unshaven, uneducated, violent diner owner with absolutely NO manners influence precious little Rory in a positive way

MickeyJr3000 · 01-05-2007, 12:23 PM

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And he already started btw....

How has chris started digging his own grave may I ask?

FuzzyCerts · 01-05-2007, 12:26 PM

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Originally Posted by MickeyJr3000 (View Post)

How has chris started digging his own grave may I ask?

By the way he acts....and if he doesn´t get what he wants, jeez, Lorelai better duck.....

Ciaobella · 01-05-2007, 12:32 PM

Totally OT, but this transcands any petty arguments about fictional father figures, but if anyone has access to WXPN out of UofPenn, they are airing a LIVE interview and concert with Yusof Islam, formally known as Cat Stevens.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled snark.

blaab · 01-05-2007, 12:34 PM

Ciao, I am thinking this is in response to some people experiencing other posters having a kind of black/white, villian/saint vision of some of the characters on this show (or well it is perceived by some that way, or well, let me speak for myself, at least by me). Most people don't seem to have a problem with the idea that Luke has been important to Lorelai and Rory, some do have Issues with the idea that he has been seen as a father-figure by Rory. And some respond to this, because this, I believe plays so well into this idea of Luke being some sort of saint ... and some simply don't see this so black and white.

So I see this more as some people disagreeing with Luke being a Saint and some posters seeing everything Luke does as great, without mentioning some of the flaws I feel has been shown on this show also. While at the same time for example everything Chris does is seen in a bad light by some ...

Again the double-standard and all ... I feel with maybe the exclusion of one or two posters, all the others do feel that Luke means something positive to Rory. Some just don't want Rory's feelings and what has been shown on screen to be twisted so it fits the image of Luke The Saint. The he is a father-figure to her idea ...

Or well this is what I think is happening ...

ETA congrats Ckomodo and Peachy ...

SarahLovesLogan · 01-05-2007, 12:38 PM

I know it's WAY late, but thanks for the thread, Babs! Man, this one has moved fast!

Congrats on your 100th post, ckomodo!

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Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post)

Speaking of her 21st birthday, I wonder what Chris gave her? I guess nothing, since we didn't see it or hear about it. Or find out why he didn't attend her Big Shindig. Guess he wasn't invited. Since we actually didn't see or hear of him being invited.

Well, actually, Luke wasn't invited either. Rory spoke directly to him and never invited him, she only invited Lorelai, hence the no chocolate box for poor Luke.

And lastly, Cappuccino, I'm sure that Lorelai's opinion of Logan has changed a tad since she went on that tirade about the LDB. Oh, let's also not forget that it was RORY who came up with the idea in the first place, who also could have gotten off scott free, if Lorelai had accepted Logan's offer of his lawyer.

But anyway, the whole conversation the last few threads is quite tiring, so I am not up for another round of bad evil rich Logan. Please.

FuzzyCerts · 01-05-2007, 12:40 PM

IMO Lorelai will leave Chrissy because of Lorelai, nothing else. She´ll see that she´d rather spend her life alone then with the wrong man.

And now I´m waiting for the divorce/annulment/whatever spoiler while you go on discussing father figures.....

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hence the no chocolate box for poor Luke.

He doesn´t like chocolate anyway....

lemon tart · 01-05-2007, 12:44 PM

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Originally Posted by lilmelodie (View Post)

Even if Rory doesn't consider Luke to be a "father-figure" I would still venture to guess that he has been a positive male-figure in her life. I think that people are afraid that Rory is suddenly going to sound like one of those cheesy fanfics where she decides to call Luke dad.

That's exactly what some of us fear. Though I don't think it's going to happen. If that were how Rory felt, she would write her own letter.

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Originally Posted by damselfly (View Post)

What the judge refused to do was make allowances for Rory's actions -- she didn't care who Rory was, or who her family was, that rich or not, there were consequences for commiting a crime. The judgement imposed probably wasn't any tougher than anyone else in Rory's position would've received from that judge, and the judge wasn't about to let it be any less tough either. I doubt Lorelai telling that particular judge that Rory wasn't rich and privileged would've had any bearing on the outcome.

That is just incorrect. The judge made specific reference to the fact that she thought Rory was a child of priviledge that thought she would get off because he family could afford a good attorney. The reality is she doesn't have the same background as Logan, though they were/are a couple. Lorelai being there could have made a difference in giving the judge and accurate perception of who Rory is, the circumstances she grew up in, etc., etc. She wasn't there, it didn't happen, the judge's perception of Rory was allowed to stand.

Logan apparently got off because Mitchum paid someone to get him off, I would guess with a different judge. Which is exactly what the judge was trying to prevent happening. Rory, child of poverty and middle class ended up exactly where children of poverty that can't afford good attorneys usually end up, with a record. Logan, child of priviledge, got off.

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Originally Posted by peachypeep (View Post)

Very good analysis. What I want to know is: how did Logan get off scot-free? And how come Rory felt no resentment that while she was doing community service he was gallivanting through Europe?

Why should she resent him for the axe the judge had to grind against her? It wasn't Logan's fault that the judge had an agenda she was looking to follow when Rory showed up in her courtroom.

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Originally Posted by damselfly (View Post)

There's nothing to indicate Luke didn't pay Logan for it. He didn't say take it as a gift. Does Luke seem the type who'd take something that extravagant without paying for it? I don't think so. Especially not from Logan, who just minutes before he wasn't thinking very highly of.

All true, but there's still no indication that Logan asked, nor that Luke offered, nor that Logan took any money from Luke.

As for him having a couple of days, again, Lorelai's "Big surprise, Luke's not a Valentine's kinda guy," tells me she knew he wouldn't be doing anything *romantic*. They'd been together for 2 Christmas's, a Valentine's and birthday at that point. As well as his long standing and reemphasized over and over again inability to buy good gifts for anyone in his life. Rachel, April, or Lorelai. Does that mean she doesn't appreciate the things he does do, no. But it seems to indicate, as does her reaction to the necklace, that she would like to think he might see something think of her and buy something because he think she might like it. Much like Rory appreciates Logan's various ways of showing he loves her, the paper, and the Birkin Bag. Both are ways of showing he loves her. One happens to be easy for him, buying stuff, giving of himself is harder. For Luke, fixing stuff is easy, passing a jewelry store seeing something pretty and thinking of Lorelai doesn't come naturally to him, doesn't mean she might not appreciate it or want him to do something like that from time to time.

Excellent post, blaab. Could not agree more. And thanks for the thread! I forgot.

Cappuccino · 01-05-2007, 12:47 PM

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And lastly, Cappuccino, I'm sure that Lorelai's opinion of Logan has changed a tad since she went on that tirade about the LDB. Oh, let's also not forget that it was RORY who came up with the idea in the first place, who also could have gotten off scott free, if Lorelai had accepted Logan's offer of his lawyer.

She has a different opinion about Logan NOW but not at the end of season 5 and most of season 6.
So it's Lorelai's fault that poor little, innocent Rory got busted for committing a crime just because she didn't take Logan's lawyer ?? Who run to her grandparents and cried that everything went wrong and who let take over to get a lawyer and everything ? If Em/Rich had trusted Lorelai for once in their life it would never had gotten that far but NO it's just Lorelai and she doesn't know what she is talking about. The Huntzburgers would never be that way to precious little Rory. We better get our lawyer who can get Rory out of that mess. Well we saw how that went but as long as it's Lorelai's fault

damselfly · 01-05-2007, 12:51 PM

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Originally Posted by SarahLovesLogan (View Post)

Well, actually, Luke wasn't invited either. Rory spoke directly to him and never invited him, she only invited Lorelai, hence the no chocolate box for poor Luke.

An oversight no doubt. Surely neither Rory nor Emily would've been sooo rude as to purposely exclude Luke. At least he brought a gift.

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Oh, let's also not forget that it was RORY who came up with the idea in the first place, who also could have gotten off scott free, if Lorelai had accepted Logan's offer of his lawyer.

It's Lorelai's fault Rory didn't get off scott free? Logan also told Rory about his offer, so she could've accepted it herself. Apparently she chose not to.

SarahLovesLogan · 01-05-2007, 12:51 PM

Actually, Cappu, that wasn't what I meant at all. You, or maybe it was someone else, asked why Rory wasn't upset with Logan for him getting off. I was saying that she could have too, so why should she hold it against him? I think she would have had a more legit reason to be upset if Logan hadn't offered the use of his lawyer.

Lorelai had no way to know what was going to happen. I do not blame her for what happened. I blame her for other things (not showing up to support her daughter), but I wouldn't want to take any help from someone who I perceived to be like Lorelai perceived Logan at that time.

lancer1993 · 01-05-2007, 12:57 PM

Elduccia – you have been added to the poll

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Originally Posted by Sandlynn

I would've liked to have known what was in the letter that Lorelai wrote to Rory for Logan, but I guess that wasn't important enough and definitely not ASP's style. If she were running this show now, we'd never know what was in that character reference for Luke because ASP always liked things not to be completely spelled out. It allowed her an out and wiggle room to take the characters wherever she later felt she needed to. Plus, it was all about the intelligent viewer drawing their own conclusions, rather than having things spelled out in the "let me lead you by the hand" fashion that we now have.

I like being lead sometimes than having some of the gapping holes left by Amy Sherman-Palladino.

As for the pearls Luke gave Rory, that was separate, even though we have not seen Rory around the diner much there is nothing to say either way. No matter what the gift you don’t take back a birthday present and it would be bad for Rory to give it back, I doubt Luke would take it. If Rory was to later give it to April that would be different.

We don’t know what Chris did for Rory’s 21st maybe a phone call or email? Also wouldn’t it be a kick if one day we see Rory wearing the pearls with Chris around and he asks about it!

In reality unless then come up in SSS with the girls remembering I doubt we will hear about them again. And yes we don’t know if Rory didn’t already return them and it was just left out, like do we really think Lorelai just chucked out ALL of Luke’s stuff, in my opinion she either returned it or it’s in a “Luke box”. I was thinking is the letter the new Luke box, I mean the box holds the memories from the past like the letter does.

Ciaobella · 01-05-2007, 01:02 PM

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Originally Posted by blaab (View Post)

Ciao, I am thinking this is in response to some people experiencing other posters having a kind of black/white, villian/saint vision of some of the characters on this show (or well it is perceived by some that way, or well, let me speak for myself, at least by me). Most people don't seem to have a problem with the idea that Luke has been important to Lorelai and Rory, some do have Issues with the idea that he has been seen as a father-figure by Rory. And some respond to this, because this, I believe plays so well into this idea of Luke being some sort of saint ... and some simply don't see this so black and white.

So I see this more as some people disagreeing with Luke being a Saint and some posters seeing everything Luke does as great, without mentioning some of the flaws I feel has been shown on this show also. While at the same time for example everything Chris does is seen in a bad light by some ...

Again the double-standard and all ... I feel with maybe the exclusion of one or two posters, all the others do feel that Luke means something positive to Rory. Some just don't want Rory's feelings and what has been shown on screen to be twisted so it fits the image of Luke The Saint. The he is a father-figure to her idea ...

Or well this is what I think is happening ...

ETA congrats Ckomodo and Peachy ...

blaab, it seems to me that for every Canonization into Sainthood, there is an opposing need to totally disregard or sully Luke's role in Rory's life. I can understand a need to adjust exaggerated fanwanking, but now they are even saying if the writers write it and if Lorelai says it and if Rory thinks it, it's still not true.

I see a more sinister agenda other than correcting misperceptions. JMO.

lancer1993 · 01-05-2007, 01:09 PM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

What's with all the sarcastic responses to other people's opinions? Is that so we are to assume someone on this board knows more about what the writers/showrunners have done and are doing - more than other posters?

Someone can't just post their opinion without snarking on someone else's comments?

Seriously - it all seems really petty to be snide about someone else's comments who doesn't agree with you - but, perhaps this is what has been meant about this place being purportedly "hard core" - whatever.

ITA - people take thing's not even directed at them as a personal attack, people this is a TV SHOW with fictional characters.

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Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post)

I'd just like to know why the mere suggestion that Luke is/was/may be an important part of Rory's life sends some posters into a cyber version of St Vitus' Dance. Why is Luke's presence in Rory's life such a threat here and to Chris?

It's not like he took anything away from Chris' relationship with Rory. Chris did that on his own.

Again totally agree and very well put.

We need to wait for the ep before making judgement on what Lorelai said and what the girls said after seeking Luke and April at the mall.

It's gonna be a long next few weeks, maybe a few spoilers will distract from the madness.

damselfly · 01-05-2007, 01:16 PM

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Originally Posted by lemon tart

That is just incorrect. The judge made specific reference to the fact that she thought Rory was a child of priviledge that thought she would get off because he family could afford a good attorney. The reality is she doesn't have the same background as Logan, though they were/are a couple. Lorelai being there could have made a difference in giving the judge and accurate perception of who Rory is, the circumstances she grew up in, etc., etc. She wasn't there, it didn't happen, the judge's perception of Rory was allowed to stand.

I don't think it is incorrect. The judge made a point of saying "I don't care who you are. I don't care who your family is". In other words, "being rich won't make one iota of difference in my court, you'll get the same sentence as anyone else commiting the same crime would get". Yes, the judge had the wrong perception, but she was saying social status counted for nothing in her court. She didn't impose a stiffer sentence because of it, she refused to impose a lesser sentence because of it.

Lorelai, or anyone else, dispelling 'the rich and privileged' notion wouldn't have affected the outcome. Rich or not, Rory would've received the same sentence no matter what.

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All true, but there's still no indication that Logan asked, nor that Luke offered, nor that Logan took any money from Luke.

We've reached an impasse, so what's the more likely scenario? That Luke would accept this extravagant gift from a 'punk' he could barely tolerate, or that he would insist on paying for it? I'd say #2.