Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #130 ~ We're Still Waiting For Santa - Page 14

Cappuccino · 01-05-2007, 08:53 AM

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Why? Which ep did RK write in the past seasons that was so good we are happy to see another one?

She wrote Emily says Hello, Always a Godmother, never a God, Bridesmaids revisited, That's what you get, folks, for making whoopee and Go Bulldogs together with Rosie.

ckomodo · 01-05-2007, 09:14 AM

Ikelve, I totally agree. Last season ended horribly and so depressing, and they foolishly stuck with it, for Lord only knows what reason. They could have backtracked out of it, or something, but no, this boring relatinship just went on and on and on and it never picked up or sparked up or got interesting. This season the Rory stories remind me of those old arcade pinball games, they seem to be all over the place. Big, sad deal that Logan is in London, then he's back. Marty acting weird for no explainable reason. Two irritating girlfriends brought in when people can't get enough of Paris and the whole Lane get's pregnant with twins the first time she has sex left totally unmined, Rory apparently couldn't be less interested or involved. Rory's response to her mother's break up with Luke, marriage to Chris, is mild concern then it's all okay with Rory, la, la,la,la,la. They stopped having her the bookish, hypervigilent little girl and appear to have no idea who she is now. And I totally agree re the pacing, it's either dragging or hyperkenetic. You'd think if they were going to have a sl that meant Lorelai couldn't go to the diner anymore that they would have thought a bit about what then she should be doing and how all the characters and plot threads would be connected because it was traffic in and out of the diner, and L and R walking across town to the diner, that held a lot of of threads together before. Somehow they arn't even doing Yale right, we know Rory's there but she never seems to be, the newsroom looks like a set in a studio, you don't get a sence of it being in Yale any more. I keep thinking, hoping, it will all pick up and gel together, but it's like since the moment of the rather flat reconciliation between L and R, something's been missing. Hopefully there are still some "wow" and "ahhh" moments left.

lemon tart · 01-05-2007, 09:23 AM

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Originally Posted by genki (View Post)

really? interesting. i always got the sense you thought he didn't mean jack**** to her...

Well, then I guess you'd sense wrong. I don't see this great love of Luke that some claim is there. And I don't take Lorelai's declaration as fact, since Rory herself has never professed great love. Just like I've said Lorelai can say what she wants in this letter, unless Rory says it, she's putting words in her mouth, or it's Lorelai's perceptions. If Rory herself saw Luke as her father figure, thus wanted to help him get custody of April, she could write her own letter to the court, she's 22, quite articulate and able to speak for herself. We know she doesn't. So this issue likely isn't seen as personal to her, she did get involved in Richard & Emily's separation, all on her own. Of course, the fact that she has a felony record might not look great, something that might not have happened had Lorelai bothered to show up at the court date.

However, she's had little contact with him, even though for 2 years her mother was either dating or engaged to him, since she went to Yale. But I think he's an important formative figure in her life, much like Sookie. In fact pretty much exactly like Sookie, just different sexes and they did different things for them.

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

I have to say --just for future reference and so this doesn't come back to bite me-- I am way more of a JJ than a Sophie. But a Sophie nonetheless. I think I defend LL more because RL shippers, or certain ones, come off as very argumentative. Save Jason, who I enjoy arguing with.

Sorry we're so evil, argumentative and mean.

Pot meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by damselfly (View Post)

If Luke bought it from Logan, and Luke gave it to Lorelai, then it belongs to Lorelai.

There was no indication that Logan asked, nor recieved, payment for the necklace. The implication was he gave it to Luke. As for Luke having 2 more days, that's belayed by Lorelai's own, "Luke's not a Valentine's Day kinda guy" line from earlier in the episode. He wasn't going to get her anything, because he thinks of Valentine's as some sort of American corporate conspiracy. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not Luke's idea of romance. Lorelai appreciated the necklace, and it led to the opening up of a temporairy line of communication between L/L.

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Originally Posted by MickeyJr3000 (View Post)

Would the debate get more heated if Lorelai says this in her letter? :

Not from me. I could care less. Though I will likely say again, those aren't Rory's words, therefore we don't know what Rory thinks. Unless Rory states "Luke was like a father to me" which I doubt, anything like that is Lorelai's embelishment, perhaps guilt. Not Rory. Rory's feelings remain what I've stated above and prior.

ETA ~ RRK also wrote How Many Kropogs to Cape Cod, I believe.

jalapeno_wildchild · 01-05-2007, 09:25 AM

can't wait to hear what lorelai has written in the letter.

Sandlynn · 01-05-2007, 09:34 AM

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Originally Posted by jalapeno_wildchild (View Post)

can't wait to hear what lorelai has written in the letter.

I would've liked to have known what was in the letter that Lorelai wrote to Rory for Logan, but I guess that wasn't important enough and definitely not ASP's style. If she were running this show now, we'd never know what was in that character reference for Luke because ASP always liked things not to be completely spelled out. It allowed her an out and wiggle room to take the characters wherever she later felt she needed to. Plus, it was all about the intelligent viewer drawing their own conclusions, rather than having things spelled out in the "let me lead you by the hand" fashion that we now have.

Mag13 · 01-05-2007, 09:40 AM

Catching up....

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Originally Posted by FuzzyCerts

We def need new spoilers......

And new trees!

The "father figure" discussion..... I think, Rory was always able to differentiate between her father's and other men' role in Lorelai's life. She knew, her father exists somewhere, even if their contact was occasional. The problem is, no one from Lorelai's boyfriends took such a place in L&R home/family life when Rory was still a child, which could substantiate a statement, he played a role of father in Chris' absence. I think, it's Lorelai's fault, because she intentionally built a barrier, keeping her boyfriends at a distance and not allowing to her home/family life. Only Luke could be eventually a surrogate father, but he appeared too late to become it. A different problem is, that every child needs to create the relationship with people particularly with the opposite sex. Lorelai created a vacuum in Rory's childchood. There's a necessity of a male role model in child's life. So, we should ask, who could play the main male role in her life, or maybe, there's nobody to take it. I think, the circumstances could have a life-long impact on Rory's emotional life and influence the choices she makes.

Cappuccino · 01-05-2007, 09:42 AM

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ETA ~ RRK also wrote How Many Kropogs to Cape Cod, I believe.

Together with Bill Prady yes.

Sandlynn · 01-05-2007, 09:55 AM

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I would actually like her to give back the pearls.

Why? There has been no indication that Rory resents Luke. Returning the pearls wouldn't seem to fit with Rory's character. She knows that it would hurt Luke and she has always tried to avoid being cruel to people (even when it's called for...Marty I'm looking at you!). I just don't see any reason for Rory to return Luke's gift.

It's not about resenting Luke or being cruel. In fact, it's the exact opposite. For one, Luke gave those pearls to Rory when he was engaged to her mother and with the expectation that they would be family. Just as an engaged woman might return a ring to the man who gave it to her once she ended the relationship, I should think it cruel to hold on to *Luke's mother's pearls* after the engagement with Rory's mother was broken off and her mother married someone else. How is Rory to know if their relationship will ever be more than cordial again? It's not like *she* has a close relationship with Luke apart from Lorelai. She really doesn't or we'd have seen it this past season. But most importantly, Luke didn't know he had a young daughter when he gave those pearls to Rory. It's one thing to give it to Rory with the expectation that -- even then, after April - they'd all be family anyway. However, now Rory has pearls that rightfully belong to April, since they are April's grandmother's pearls, *and* Rory has no expectation that she will have any relationship with Luke and April. I would think it a very kindly thing for Rory to offer Luke the pearls for April *or* give them to April herself. After all, these are not just any pearls -- pearls Luke just bought new at a jewelry store specifically for Rory -- but a family heirloom. Why would Rory want to keep an heirloom that rightfully should remain in the Danes family? She certainly isn't desperate for family jewelry considering Emily's likely donation to *her* jewelry box, let alone the stuff Logan is gifting her with.

peachypeep · 01-05-2007, 10:04 AM

Who knows? Maybe she did return the pearls and it's just another bit of business that has drifted off....

caf123 · 01-05-2007, 10:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Sandlynn (View Post)

.....It's not like *she* has a close relationship with Luke apart from Lorelai. She really doesn't or we'd have seen it this past season.....

I wouldn't judge anything in Rory's life by what they've shown this past season ... hey, maybe she's in suspended animation and TLM wasn't an anvil but they really meant it.

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After all, these are not just any pearls -- pearls Luke just bought new at a jewelry store specifically for Rory -- but a family heirloom. Why would Rory want to keep an heirloom that rightfully should remain in the Danes family? She certainly isn't desperate for family jewelry considering Emily's likely donation to *her* jewelry box, let alone the stuff Logan is gifting her with.

She's not desperate for jewelry, so guess we just have to conclude Luke really is important to her.

Ciaobella · 01-05-2007, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

I wouldn't judge anything in Rory's life by what they've shown this past season ... hey, maybe she's in suspended animation and TLM wasn't an anvil but they really meant it.

She's not desperate for jewelry, so guess we just have to conclude Luke really is important to her.

Speaking of her 21st birthday, I wonder what Chris gave her? I guess nothing, since we didn't see it or hear about it. Or find out why he didn't attend her Big Shindig. Guess he wasn't invited. Since we actually didn't see or hear of him being invited.

TheJSW · 01-05-2007, 10:35 AM

Peachy, your list about monumental occassions that were never speakin of again on this show. Should require a two-tier system. Level 1) Being LEGIT stuff that we should have seen mentioned again. Level 2) Discernable bits of business for comedic effect such as the WEDDING ANNOUNCEMENT last year. Yes, level 2, is a bit subjective. However, Amy and Dan, were all about comedic bits of business. Which do not exactly fir the CIP way of thing.

That aside, Sandlynn, very astutely put. However, I disagree with the way the letter will be handled. Maybe lack of spoilers has driven us to take the descriptions to ridiculous lengths. It seems more plausible then the LETTER being TOTALLY spelt out on the screen. The letter should easily be more of a transitional device during the episode. Again, I am not stating that SHO-RUNNA and SGGWT do not have time-management skill problems. However, they are not idiots, and people who have worked with ASP for years. Would never be so direct with a plot device.

Again, anyone can have a problem with the story direction over the six months. It happened for a reason. Reasons dating back a while.

damselfly · 01-05-2007, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by lemon tart

Of course, the fact that she has a felony record might not look great, something that might not have happened had Lorelai bothered to show up at the court date.

Rory's felony record is all on her. You think the judge would've been swayed by Rory having her mommy in court with her? In real life Rory would've gone to jail, because in many places grand theft over $100,000 carries a mandatory jail sentence. She got off lightly all things considered.

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There was no indication that Logan asked, nor recieved, payment for the necklace. The implication was he gave it to Luke. As for Luke having 2 more days, that's belayed by Lorelai's own, "Luke's not a Valentine's Day kinda guy" line from earlier in the episode. He wasn't going to get her anything, because he thinks of Valentine's as some sort of American corporate conspiracy. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not Luke's idea of romance. Lorelai appreciated the necklace, and it led to the opening up of a temporairy line of communication between L/L.

There's nothing to indicate Luke didn't pay Logan for it. He didn't say take it as a gift. Does Luke seem the type who'd take something that extravagant without paying for it? I don't think so. Especially not from Logan, who just minutes before he wasn't thinking very highly of.

Luke thinks of any Hallmark moment that way, but grumbling loudly about it doesn't mean he wouldn't have done something in his own way on the actual day. He's not a hearts and flowers kind of guy, and he's never needed to make grand gestures, so why did he need to then? Lorelai would've been more moved if he'd given her his own mother's necklace in private, instead of making a presentation of that ostentatious offering at dinner, which wasn't, as you said, his idea of romance.

As I said, don't get me started on that episode. Logan gave Luke the head's up that he was giving Rory her gift at dinner (I thought lunch, but it was dinner) -- he could've just as easily said he'd hold off since Luke hadn't bought anything yet. Instead we got a bunch of phony drivel over a dripping-with-diamonds necklace that she had to know Luke didn't pick out himself.

Worst writing ever. Well, maybe not ever, I think that goes to French Twist.

**Katiegg108** · 01-05-2007, 10:57 AM

One thing about the father figure discussion (tree?). To me, saying that Luke was a father figure to Rory is very different than implying that he was the closest thing to a father she had and that he is her only father figure. For me personally, I have many father figures in my life, my father, my grandfather, an uncle and a close family friend. The only one that I love as my father is my father. The only one I love as a grandfather is my grandfather, but I do consider them all father figures. Maybe that's why I have such an issue with people ruling out luke as being a father figure. He's not Rory's only one, though, and he'll never be like her father to her...

Maybe other people here look at father figure's differently than I do, like you can only have one, but that's not how I see it. I see no reason why Richard, Chris, and Luke could not have all been father figures to Rory in their own ways, times, and place.

And as far as Lorelai stuggling to write the letter. I don't see that as a big deal, it's what I expected earlier as well. Most people have problems just having to sit down and write something, you can think as hard as you want, and start it as many times as you'd like, but even if you want to write something, you struggle with it until you find the inspiration. You can stare at a piece of paper trying to write a letter or essay for hours and get no where, but usually whenever it clicks, the rest gets written very quickly. I think that how it's going to work here. Adding to that, Lorelai's pain regarding Luke and April that's certainly still underneath... it makes total sense that she'd struggle at first.

And the letter is from Lorelai's POV, obviously. But whatever she says will be how she feels. And if a mother says that a man was important to her daughter growing up, and helped out, and was always around and great to them, I don't see why we would rule it out as untrue, unless Rory flat out says that Luke meant nothing to her. This is how Lorelai will interpret Luke and Rory's relationship after observing it for almost 10 years, and I'm going to take whatever she says as the truth. It's not like Lorelai would lie to the court to exaggerate anything about Luke when she has no obligation to do any of this.

lilmelodie · 01-05-2007, 11:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Katiegg108 (View Post)

One thing about the father figure discussion (tree?). To me, saying that Luke was a father figure to Rory is very different than implying that he was the closest thing to a father she had and that he is her only father figure. For me personally, I have many father figures in my life, my father, my grandfather, an uncle and a close family friend. The only one that I love as my father is my father. The only one I love as a grandfather is my grandfather, but I do consider them all father figures. Maybe that's why I have such an issue with people ruling out luke as being a father figure. He's not Rory's only one, though, and he'll never be like her father to her...

Maybe other people here look at father figure's differently than I do, like you can only have one, but that's not how I see it. I see no reason why Richard, Chris, and Luke could not have all been father figures to Rory in their own ways, times, and place.

And as far as Lorelai stuggling to write the letter. I don't see that as a big deal, it's what I expected earlier as well. Most people have problems just having to sit down and write something, you can think as hard as you want, and start it as many times as you'd like, but even if you want to write something, you struggle with it until you find the inspiration. You can stare at a piece of paper trying to write a letter or essay for hours and get no where, but usually whenever it clicks, the rest gets written very quickly. I think that how it's going to work here. Adding to that, Lorelai's pain regarding Luke and April that's certainly still underneath... it makes total sense that she'd struggle at first.

And the letter is from Lorelai's POV, obviously. But whatever she says will be how she feels. And if a mother says that a man was important to her daughter growing up, and helped out, and was always around and great to them, I don't see why we would rule it out as untrue, unless Rory flat out says that Luke meant nothing to her. This is how Lorelai will interpret Luke and Rory's relationship after observing it for almost 10 years, and I'm going to take whatever she says as the truth. It's not like Lorelai would lie to the court to exaggerate anything about Luke when she has no obligation to do any of this.

Even if Rory doesn't consider Luke to be a "father-figure" I would still venture to guess that he has been a positive male-figure in her life. I think that people are afraid that Rory is suddenly going to sound like one of those cheesy fanfics where she decides to call Luke dad.

And as far as the bolded part, I think that is exactly the point of this letter. Lorelai has to be honest about who Luke is and what he has meant to her and her daughter. I don't think we are going to get something over the top here. It will probably be something along the lines of 7.01 when Lorelai and Rory both talked about small but nice moments they'd had with Luke and Logan.