Spoilers - Gilmore Girls S&S #113 ~ Chris & Luke? Nah, More Like Spike & Angel. - Page 16

blaab · 12-06-2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimbolina (View Post)

Blaab, again you are saying that you "don't care what the 17 year old Lorelai said or did on that matter", but isn't that one of the most important points? At least for me it is. Lorelai always only did the things she wanted to do.

According to Richard "Lorelai never does anything unless she wants to – no matter the consequences to anyone else" - so I think it's really important what Lorelai did back then even if she only was 17 years old, Lorelai was always independent and apparently a grown up, so for me it matters a lot what happened back then.

ETA
Ckomodo, just remember the fact the Emily left Richard because she was afraid she would lose Lorelai again, if that doesn’t show her love for her daughter I don’t know what would.

It just proves that Emily and Lorelai have a lot in common. Both putting their daughters above their partners.

I am sure that was Richards experience ... and I also agree that Emily and Lorelai are very much alike ... and again I believe these three love each other a lot! And I am sure that will be shown in ep 13. Even though I get Richard feeling the way at the same time I am always under the impression that Lorelai would love her parents approval. If she could only get it while doing what fits her ... again I get that.

I guess we differ on that part. Regardless of what Lorelai said or did at the age of 17, her parents should have supported her. That is how I feel. I don't believe Lorelai was always independent and apparantly a grown up. I believe she ended up being independent because she felt she couldn't stay in the Gilmore Mansion also because that was too hard for her. Was she right in feeling this way. I dunno, I remember finding a lot of things hard when I was a teenager. Can't imagine having a kid also at that time.

My main argument in this is that I am getting the feeling that for all these characters on this matter (Emily, Richard and Chris) their personal circumstances are taken into account. And well, those circumstances were around for the young Lorelai also. I am even thinking especially since she was only a kid who just had a kid. She had her own reasons, her own feelings of hurt to do what she did at that age. And she was still the child in this matter. And what if she messed up, I can understand her being confused and all ...

I just have an extremely hard time accepting that Lorelai popped into this world being overly defensive when it comes to their parents. For no reasons feeling the incredible need to built her own life at that age ... there is just as much her side to this story. Just like there is one for Chris, Emily and Richard. I am getting the feeling from some posts that if only Lorelai would have done differently in the past and will do differently now and in the future, her relationship with E&R would be great, her relationship with Luke would have worked out (as if he didn't bring some Issues to the table), if she would have changed later her relationship with Chris would work (as if he didn't bring some Issues to the table). She wouldn't have run away with a 1-year old ... etc etc. And I don't buy that at all. People are shaped and formed by experiences and situations. Not everyone, except Lorelai. Again there is a reason for Lorelai being the way she is. And I do feel a lot of that can be explained when you look at her upbringing. That doesn't mean she is not responsible NOW, but I do feel E&R were responsible long before that, while they were the parents. But again, I also recognize that R&E only did what they thought was best ... just like Lorelai did years later when it came to Rory ...

I don't blame any of them. Doesn't mean I can't recognize different choices could have been better though. Not only by Lorelai, but definitely also by Richard, Emily and Chris.

And now I am out of here. And I do like this debate Sandra. I really do and I do like hearing your POV and others. I just see it differently, but I am sure we can continue this later on. We have the hiatus ahead of us. Plenty of time

Sandlynn · 12-06-2006, 02:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Katiegg108 (View Post)

That just seems so wrong. That we haven't had a scene with the four of them. very, very sad... i'm interested to see how this interaction goes. Will April see them and say hi first? Will they just all walk up to eachother? how long until ep. 11?

Well, that's because Luke wouldn't let Lorelai -- and by extension Rory -- interact with April.

Quote:

The first time we might see them talking to eachother willingly, I don't know if that's the right word, but just actually going to talk to the other and not just talking because they ran into eachohter, will probably be whenever she gets her butt back into the diner. Even if he calls her for the letter, it's not the same, because it's something he needs, like with April in ep. 8. I'm just waiting for the day when they just talk like they used to, because they wanted to, to say hi, whatever...

I have no idea where DNA tests are normally performed -- probably at a lab -- but another reason Luke might be in a hospital (at the same time Lorelai and her folks are) would be to get proof of paternity for his custody case.

wej5541 · 12-06-2006, 02:55 PM

Thanks for those pictures and episode description, I think that's the only specific spoiler we currently have for R/L.

elduccia · 12-06-2006, 02:56 PM

Thanks micfall for the the pics.

And Craig, you are the fastest avi maker ever!

apparition · 12-06-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimbolina (View Post)

Blaab, again you are saying that you "don't care what the 17 year old Lorelai said or did on that matter", but isn't that one of the most important points? At least for me it is. Lorelai always only did the things she wanted to do.

I think a point we are underestimating here is pride. All Gilmores are very pride. They don´t ask for help if it would signalize weakness. And they would never just admit that they got really hurt. That changed during the seasons but back than it was eminent.
I partly agree with blaab that a 16 year old pregnant Lorelai should not be that critically judged on what she was actually saying. Words can hurt - all Gilmores so far have proven that. But I agree that parents should be the bigger ones in that relationship. But they as well decided to shut Lorelai out of their lives as Lorelai did the other way around.
Another reason for Lorelai to run away was probably that she thought that right than was the best opportunity to take life into her own hands because it might be apparent to her that the Gilmores wolud pull the same education on Rory. There´s no doubt in my mind that´ll all love eachother but with Lorelai and Emily two worlds collided. The Gilmores will never get over the fact that Lorelai chosed the other way - in their opion the best way of living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimbolina (View Post)

ETA
Ckomodo, just remember the fact the Emily left Richard because she was afraid she would lose Lorelai again, if that doesn’t show her love for her daughter I don’t know what would.

It just proves that Emily and Lorelai have a lot in common. Both putting their daughters above their partners.

To be correct: The problems between ER build up way before. They both didn´t talk and moved further apart. So Emily couldn´t understand why Richard did that to Lorelai. But Emily didn´t left Richard because of Lorelai - she left because she finally understood that they drifted apart too far. She couldn´t understand his motivations anymore.

voncey · 12-06-2006, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the pics!

I just noticed April's clothes -- a hoodie for Lorelai and a vest for Luke!

gjoni · 12-06-2006, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the pics and 7.11 info, Curlyhead and Micfall.

So, to summerize a few points made evident by the above info (or questions, or assumptions

):

- there's a bit of a time skip between 7.10 (pre Xmas) and 7.11 (post holidays).

- Rory and Logan have apparently resolved the Marty issue and spend the holidays together in London.

- April spends time with Luke after the holidays (possibly also during).

- first time LL along with their daughters all meet each other.

- they meet in a toy store? Maybe Lorelai wants to get Davey the gift she'll bring him in 7.12, or perhaps a Gigi gift is needed.

- they apparently had a location shoot at a mall (what's the name of the one where they shot "Scene in a Mall"?)

- they're shopping during the mall's (fictitious) post holiday sales, and doing not so badly at all, judging by the number of bags.

- both Rory and Lorelai decided to wear crazy Xmas "spirited" sweaters so they'd be able to spot each other at the mall. It's this mother - daughter duo's thing, Tom knows.

- Lorelai's not over the knit - a - thon yet - the "stitch" bag makes that clear.

- Lorelai, Rory AND April are color coordinated - those are family ties, dig? (and Luke better have his red checkered flannel on).

- some of these points might have already been made by others.

- this has brought out the weird, mad and overly analytic side of me.

lancer1993 · 12-06-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elduccia (View Post)

Thanks micfall for the the pics.

And Craig, you are the fastest avi maker ever!

Shhhh!

Is it a spoiler?

I'm amazed that April doesn't have flannel and a backward baseball cap LOL

BTW he still has the same cap, one day the blue one will come back!

elduccia · 12-06-2006, 03:07 PM

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Originally Posted by lancer1993 (View Post)

Shhhh!

Is it a spoiler?

Good nite everyone. Enough speccing - and almost no working

- for me today

Cappuccino · 12-06-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

- they meet in a toy store? Maybe Lorelai wants to get Davey the gift she'll bring him in 7.12, or perhaps a Gigi gift is needed.

Or maybe she needs a new toy for Chris so his occupied with that rather than getting this freaking baby making idea again

Quote:

- Lorelai, Rory AND April are color coordinated - those are family ties, dig? (and Luke better have his red checkered flannel on).

But he's wearing his green jacket which is the other Christmas color opposite to red so they match again.

Nicolalala · 12-06-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjoni

- they apparently had a location shoot at a mall

Filmed at Burbank Mall.

Spoiler: After running into Luke and April, Lorelai and Rory remember who/what Luke has been to them.

pimbolina · 12-06-2006, 03:20 PM

Blaab, I guess we have to agree to disagree here.
You are more on Lorelai’s side on this, I’m more on Emily’s side.

I don’t think Lorelai’s age is an excuse for her behaviour or that Emily and Richard are more responsible for this because they are the parents. Lorelai was a parent too.

Emily and Richard wanted for Lorelai to get married to Chris. Obviously Emily and Richard respected Lorelai’s wish to not get married, and let Lorelai stay at home. They respected her and accepted Lorelai’s decision.

Again, we don’t know what Emily and Richard did way back to keep Lorelai and Rory in their lives. But I’m sure Emily didn’t let Lorelai and Rory go without a fight.

But once Lorelai made up her mind there is no chance to change it.

And why did Mia never say a thing? Emily wished that Mia would have sent Lorelai home instead of giving her job. But apparently Lorelai felt fine where she was and made it clear that she doesn’t need her parents.

During her rift with Rory, she said that she wanted to do it alone without any help and Rory should do the same.

Lorelai was too proud to accept any help from her parents.

I could imagine that Emily tried again and again to have contact with her daughter, but what if Lorelai always rejected her and Richard. Not wanting to have any contact at all. Maybe Emily and Richard reached out to Lorelai, but Lorelai didn’t want it.

So what should Emily have done, dragging Lorelai home by her hair and keeping her in her room day and night? Lorelai only would have run away again and this time probably a lot further away, where nobody would have found her.

I guess after some time Emily accepted Lorelai’s choice even if a part of her died inside of her.

Apparition, I know that Emily and Richard had problems before, Richard lied to her about Pennilyn Lott, his work was getting more and more important, Emily felt like he didn’t need her anymore and on top of that he put his work before his family. Lorelai was the last straw for Emily to leave Richard. Still it was a major one too. She endured everything, but she couldn’t lose Lorelai again.

**Katiegg108** · 12-06-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolalala (View Post)

Filmed at Burbank Mall.

Spoiler: After running into Luke and April, Lorelai and Rory remember who/what Luke has been to them.

Thanks!

Exciting! Finally! i've been waiting for them to remember how much Luke has always meant to them, or at least for Lorelai to realize that for the longest time now.

crimsonlorelai · 12-06-2006, 03:23 PM

Ok let me just say that not only did I love this episode but I thought it was very random...Chris asking Lorelai "Let's make a baby." Not only was it random but it sounded kind of awkward. And the whole Chris/Luke fight also very very random. Like I think it was just them venting out frustration not only at eachother but at what is going on in their lives. But it was still VERY random. But I personally love TV fighting cause it is clearly choreagraphed and its funny as anything. I was laughing at this fight because DS clearly waited for SP to duck when he tried to punch him. OH! and ramming him into the tree was AMAZING and so funny. Cause he was just like ARGH!!!! and RAM! then Deck the Halls just starts playing it was amazing. Then Luke being covered in presents TEE HEE!! Best Episode by far.

lilmelodie · 12-06-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicolalala (View Post)

Filmed at Burbank Mall.

Spoiler: After running into Luke and April, Lorelai and Rory remember who/what Luke has been to them.

Thanks!