Spoilers - Gilmore Girls~Luke/Lorelai Analysis & Speculation #418~Big Fat Freakin' Kiss - Page 14

Tara Ashley · 05-10-2007, 09:57 AM

Thanks for the thread!

I started copying and pasting people's posts, but there were too many I agreed with! Even I am having a hard time understanding Lorelai. I really, truly believe it is just bad writing. I have no other words to explain it. The consistency is just...not there.

Honestly, can you imagine Amy sitting down to watch this season? Aside from the four or five golden episodes, I bet she'd laugh her ass off...I know you all hate her, but I still admire her so much, and I'm sad that her show's brilliance was not preserved.

BUT that's my daily dose of negativity, as I really do agree with Wanda and Katie that regardless of our failed hopes, we MUST enjoy this last episode! This show means a whole lot to me.

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Originally Posted by WandaRose (View Post)

Nope. Even with all the bad, I am so glad I get to say I got to be a part of this show. It would have been tragic if these characters never saw the light of prime time TV. And I thank ASP and even DR for allowing us to have our weekly dose of them.

Here here! You never think a TV show can change your perspective on life, but I swear this one has. In the past year, I've learned so much from my love for this show, and I will *always* have a special place for these characters, especially Lorelai (however inappropriate that is in light of the DC!).

Lastly....finals.suck.

Saranoh · 05-10-2007, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Tara Ashley (View Post)

I started copying and pasting people's posts, but there were too many I agreed with! Even I am having a hard time understanding Lorelai. I really, truly believe it is just bad writing. I have no other words to explain it. The consistency is just...not there.

I'm obviously weird because I don't see this as bad writing. It all makes complete sense to me.

Spikette · 05-10-2007, 10:11 AM

The way I see it, why should Lorelai dwell on her feelings for Luke if it is going nowhere? In her mind, anything more done on her part would be an act of futility because Luke is not interested. She doesn't know this is all just another stupid misunderstanding. She thinks he saw her gesture of the song and it angered him. And really, after all that has gone on with the two of them, it is not so outlandish of her to think he's rejecting her PDA. She is barking up the wrong tree, in her mind. Whatever she says to Rory is just her protecting herself from being hurt or her trying to tell herself to move on.

This is probably the set up for the "new understanding". Luke is going to learn to take the leap of faith and Lorelai is going to learn something too. I just need to figure that part out. LOL

Cappuccino · 05-10-2007, 10:11 AM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

How do you figure? Luke isn't even attempting to make a move, so I really don't understand the comparison here. Just because Lorelai has a goal for all of this doesn't mean that her love is "conditional."

Well he didn't even get the chance to make a move cause Lorelai had to deny the meaning of the song the minute someone confronted her with it.

This must suck for Scott big time. Missing out on the last moments

JujuBad · 05-10-2007, 10:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

How do you figure? Luke isn't even attempting to make a move, so I really don't understand the comparison here. Just because Lorelai has a goal for all of this doesn't mean that her love is "conditional."

Luke bought her a gift. How can you say hes is not even attempting?

Tara Ashley · 05-10-2007, 10:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

I'm obviously weird because I don't see this as bad writing. It all makes complete sense to me.

I can trace the logic, but it's complicated and just a little OOC for me. The build-up isn't subtle and graceful like ASP's.

lilmelodie · 05-10-2007, 10:14 AM

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Originally Posted by JujuBad (View Post)

Luke bought her a gift. How can you say hes is not even attempting?

In Lorelai's mind he's not attempting. She has no idea that he bought that necklace for her.

Spikette · 05-10-2007, 10:17 AM

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Originally Posted by JujuBad (View Post)

Luke bought her a gift. How can you say hes is not even attempting?

But he didn't take the leap of faith....he didn't give it to her. He should have had enough sense in my opinion to know she didn't mean the denial about the song. Or he could have said "Hey, what do you mean it didn't mean anything?"

Lorelai did leap. the invite to car shop and the song were HUGE leaps, in my book. And, as lilmelodie said, she doesn't even know about the necklace and he wouldn't have even bought it without Liz.

El286 · 05-10-2007, 10:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

I'm obviously weird because I don't see this as bad writing. It all makes complete sense to me.

I do see it as bad writing and it doesn't really make sense to me. DR may have the ideas worked out in his head, but they just aren't displaying themselves coherently onscreen. I think DR's problem is that he seems to like writing drama about people's inner "feelings" and just can't do it very well. I think episodes 7.19 and 7.20 were good because they were light and somewhat more comedic. But I think with the romance drama, DR is trying to be "complex" and not fall into preconceived categories of "love" and "in love" and "soulmates", etc. I greatly admire this because I'm not a fan of stereotypes at all, but I don't think he can pull it off. What is supposed to be "complex" comes across as wishy-washy. Sure, I know the standard "explanations" for Lorelai's romance with Chris but I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that her feelings towards him (and Luke during this time period) seemed to change from episode to episode and scene to scene.

I'm feeling that way now about Luke and Lorelai. On one hand, I'm really glad that DR did not have Luke and Lorelai run into each other's arms and have some melodramatic exchange about how they never stopped loving each other. Like it or not Luke and Lorelai have been written as having bad communication for a long time, plus they have a lot of baggage after everything, and for them suddenly to communicate perfectly and trust each other absolutely would be unrealistic.

On the other hand, I just think DR is in over his head when he tries to do storylines about characters' feelings. I think he was trying to make the Rory-Logan break up "complex" and "realistic" with a variety of issues involved and I can even agree to some extent with the ideas that appeared to be behind it, but onscreen I felt it played out as abrupt, unjustified and lame. If you want to get Luke and Lorelai back together slowly, do so but keep moving them consistently forwards. Instead we keep going back and forth sometimes seeing that Luke and Lorelai have feelings for each other and want to get back together, and sometimes wanting nothing more than friendship, and inevitably we're told that no matter what we see onscreen, the characters are feeling the opposite inside.

My frustration with this, though, actually has nothing to do with wanting characters to all be in a happy place with each other and everything wrapped up in a neat package with a bow on top. I'm actually strangely pleased that a lot of things won't be "resolved" in the finale episoe because that's life. Relationships like Lorelai's and Emily's are never going to be perfectly harmonious. Lorelai and Emily are too alike, too stubborn and emotionally stunted to ever have an openly loving and trusting relationship. I do think they've made progress and I think they both know they respect each other.

I really like that we aren't going to see Luke and Lorelai in a perfect, sunshiny place because in light of their history I don't think that would be realistic. And in fact from my perspective I really like it that we'll never know if they have a happily ever romantic relationship or if they just go back to being friends, because to me, their relationship seemed far better and more stable as a friendship. Did they have chemistry in the earlier episodes? Sure, but that doesn't predict undying love forever.

I am sorry that Rory and Logan broke up, but if I think about it, would 22-year-old Rory Gilmore really jump at the idea of lifelong commitment? Her mom has tried to be her best friend to an almost unhealthy extent, her dad hasn't been around much, and she's watched her mom, in her thirties already, commit three times to relationships and have every one of them fall apart within months. I think it might be unrealistic to have Rory emerge perfectly adjusted and unafraid of commitment or of letting go of her mom.

I guess I am not a fan of stereotyped happy endings. These characters are all psychologically complex, they all have a lot of baggage, and I think that this finale might inadvertently serve as a better last picture of these people's lives than if it had been planned as a series finale...everyone moving forward, but with none of the big issues in their lives perfectly resolved.

vaso · 05-10-2007, 10:24 AM

DR messed up as a showrunner. Plain and simple. In one episode we had those looks between LL and in the next she was ready to leave Luke out of her life. The episodes didn't have a continuity. It was like they didn't watch what they were writing in the previous episode.

And now we are sitting here trying to understand the mess that is DR's writing.

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I really like that we aren't going to see Luke and Lorelai in a perfect, sunshiny place because in light of their history I don't think that would be realistic. And in fact from my perspective I really like it that we'll never know if they have a happily ever romantic relationship or if they just go back to being friends, because to me, their relationship seemed far better and more stable as a friendship. Did they have chemistry in the earlier episodes? Sure, but that doesn't predict undying love forever.

What? oh you can bet that they will have a happily ever romantic relationship. We won't see them married but they will BE together.It's not what we wanted and what we deserved but at least we will know that they are together for ever. You can forget about your dream scenario of returning to dopey because she never loved him.

Spikette · 05-10-2007, 10:32 AM

I know this is off topic, but if Logan hadn't made it "all or nothing", Rory and Logan would still be together right now. She just didn't want to get married right now, she wasn't rejecting HIM. I didn't see it as unrealistic or abrupt. JMO It was sad, but I understood her point of view. Maybe after all she has seen, she has learned that marriage is not something you use to run away from your problems, like not having a job or uncertainty in her future. If she accepted his proposal, her career options would have no longer been open. I guess she wasn't ready to close any doors behind her.

Cappuccino · 05-10-2007, 10:34 AM

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I guess I am not a fan of stereotyped happy endings.

*cough* that's what we are getting with LL*cough*

caf123 · 05-10-2007, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by El286 (View Post)

I guess I am not a fan of stereotyped happy endings. These characters are all psychologically complex, ...

How funny, because that's exactly what we're getting - a stereotypical last-minute runion/kiss. Bet the showrunners think they're giving us that happy ending.

It's the viewers who actually cared about that complexity you talk about, who wanted to see the actual relationship play out on screen. It's the writers who trivialized it into a superficial "happily ever after" ending.

Spikette · 05-10-2007, 10:38 AM

I am hoping that next week, all the pieces to the puzzle will fall into place and this whole thing will make a little more sense. Either way, I really love this show and all the characters in it. I am looking forward to seeing a lot of them at the party. I think the farewell party will be great and I am looking forward to it.

lancer1993 · 05-10-2007, 10:38 AM

I knew I would wake too early!

....anything new?