Spoilers - Gilmore Girls ~ Luke/Lorelai Analysis & Speculation #377 - Page 16

commodore · 04-07-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CineFille (View Post)

Not to go around the tree again, but neither Luke nor Lorelai were truly "all in" in seasons 5 or 6. Yes, they truly loved each other, and it's clear that they were destined to be each other's "lobsters." But there was too much lying, miscommunication, and compartmentalizing on both their parts to make a permanent relationship work, and a marriage between them with all those issues between them would have been disastrous.

If this season ends with it clear that both Luke and Lorelai have learned from their mistakes and are ready to truly commit to each other and let each other in, we'll be miles ahead of where we were in 5.3, 5.22, 6.9, or 6.22

That's a fair point, except that the lying, miscommunication, and compartmentalizing didn't kick in until AFTER 5.3. They were part and parcel of two seasons' worth of stories meant to prolong the L/L story and create obstacles. If someone were to stop watching the series after WITS, I think they'd probably have a pretty optimistic picture of where L/L were going. When WiTS aired, the idea of April had not been conceived in ASP's mind, and Christopher had not been a factor on the show for a season and a half. So Ciaobella's main point stands: that while the obstacles L/L faced since 5.03 have supposedly made them stronger, the viewer is not in a more happy or optimistic place than they would have been had they stopped watching after 5.03 and never been told that L/L have all these Big Issues that require Journeys and Separation and Personal Growth.

caf123 · 04-07-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

Why do you say this? Two people can be really committed and not married.

I say that because of the umpteen images in my head of Lorelai married to Christopher and trying to make that work.

We already saw Luke and Lorelai say they were "committed" and "all in" - and that led to him lying and her sleeping with Christopher.

A few last-minute promises to each other mean squat. They're still miles behind where they were before - and we all know what happened then.

To be really "committed", they'd have to live together, truly share and communicate, not lie, not hide - to show us, not tell us with empty words, that this time they could make it. But it's clear now that won't happen.

If Luke isn't even a significant figure at Rory's graduation, then their two lives are nowhere close to being melded and committed.

We won't see Luke be Rory's stepfather or Lorelai get to know April. That's what makes me say they're not really committed.

Luke and Lorelai's stories peaked in season 5, then went backwards, and unfortunately they're leaving us there. It sucks, especially after the promises made by both showrunners, that we were stupid enough to fall for - but we might as well face facts.

2ggObsessed · 04-07-2007, 04:40 PM

Thanks Katie for all the new information. You certainly had a fruitful tour. Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

stephrox · 04-07-2007, 04:42 PM

WORD caf!! I was jsut gonna post before about how we saw Lorelai trying to commit to Chris and how LL already commited to each other and both times they failed because something got in the way. Having LL say to each other they are all in and commited isnt enough for me anymore. Maybe it was once before but not after eeverything. Not after i saw Lorelai trying to commit with Chris. We need something different. Having LL married like Ciao said would leave no more doubts to me of LL falling apart again. To me it shows they are finally commited to each other forever. I need to hear the I DO's this time to finally believe it, to believe LL are really commited for real and forever.

CineFille · 04-07-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephrox (View Post)

WORD caf!! I was jsut gonna post before about how we saw Lorelai trying to commit to Chris and how LL already commited to each other and both times they failed because something got in the way. Having LL say to each other they are all in and commited isnt enough for me anymore. Maybe it was once before but not after eeverything. Not after i saw Lorelai trying to commit with Chris. We need something different. Having LL married like Ciao said would leave no more doubts to me of LL falling apart again. To me it shows they are finally commited to each other forever. I need to hear the I DO's this time to finally believe it, to believe LL are really commited for real and forever.

Well, we're probably not going to get the "I dos," so it seems we have three choices:

Watch through the end of the series, accept a reasonably believable (yet undoubtedly rushed) L/L reunion and fill in the blanks with fanfic and our own imaginations. . .

Watch through the end of the series, stay so focused on what we're not getting that we miss the good stuff we do get, and hold on to a bitter rather than nice memory of the show . . .

or stop watching right now, pick up all our toys, and go home.

They may not be ideal options, but them's the breaks, kids.

voncey · 04-07-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonana (View Post)

I think my biggest rant is about all the lost opportunities on this show.

Yup -- even with the April storyline, they could have had two seasons of interesting and ultimately satisfying storylines about L/L dealing with complicated family and extended family problems. Seeing them dealing with it together would have been so much more interesting than watching the writers retcon or ignore much of GG history so Lorelai could make googly eyes at Deadbeat Dopey in a storyline that everyone and their dog could see was doomed from the start.

Bah. Lazy, stupid writers.

Lauren Graham Brasilian Fan · 04-07-2007, 04:50 PM

On the middle of season 6 we thought that Luke saying ILY to Lorelai would make us believe that everything was going to be ok with both of them, but now we really need more than ILY or an engagement, we really need to be sure that they are going to be ok, so the only thing i can see that would make them be ok is the wedding.

caf123 · 04-07-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

I guess I'm just weird because I'm perfectly fine with taking a leap of faith. I just don't need some sort of iron-clad guarantee.

We already took a leap of faith. Heck, we spent two years taking leaps of faith.

And we got Partings and Paris and C/L married and Lorelai telling Christopher he's "the man she wants to want". That's where our leaps of faith ended up.

Pardon me if this time, I'd like to see something on the TV screen, not just leap back into la-la self-delusion land.

My imagination worked better before I saw seasons 6 and 7.

Saranoh · 04-07-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CineFille (View Post)

Well, we're probably not going to get the "I dos," so it seems we have three choices:

Watch through the end of the series, accept a reasonably believable (yet undoubtedly rushed) L/L reunion and fill in the blanks with fanfic and our own imaginations. . .

Watch through the end of the series, stay so focused on what we're not getting that we miss the good stuff we do get, and hold on to a bitter rather than nice memory of the show . . .

or stop watching right now, pick up all our toys, and go home.

They may not be ideal options, but them's the breaks, kids.

This is how I see it too. I understand why people are angry, but I'm not. I think it's a waste of energy.

Quote:

We already took a leap of faith. Heck, we spent two years taking leaps of faith.

And we got Partings and Paris and C/L married and Lorelai telling Christopher he's "the man she wants to want". That's where our leaps of faith ended up.

Pardon me if this time, I'd like to see something on the TV screen, not just leap back into la-la self-delusion land.

My imagination worked better before I saw seasons 6 and 7.

Caf, I just don't think we're ever going to agree on this. I've accepted that. I'm sick of this tree. LOL

CineFille · 04-07-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

We already took a leap of faith. Heck, we spent two years taking leaps of faith.

And we got Partings and Paris and C/L married and Lorelai telling Christopher he's "the man she wants to want". That's where our leaps of faith ended up.

Pardon me if this time, I'd like to see something on the TV screen, not just leap back into la-la self-delusion land.

My imagination worked better before I saw seasons 6 and 7.

This is a television show. Luke and Lorelai were most likely going to face roadblocks and most likely not going be together permanently before the end of the series. Even if Lorelai had never gotten involved with Christopher there would have been other plot devices to keep L/L apart until the end. That's SOP in series television.

And FWIW, "Youre the man I want to want" is what told me that C/L are finally, truly, dead and buried.

Saranoh · 04-07-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CineFille (View Post)

This is a television show. Luke and Lorelai were most likely going to face roadblocks and most likely not going be together permanently before the end of the series. Even if Lorelai had never gotten involved with Christopher there would have been other plot devices to keep L/L apart until the end. That's SOP in series television.

There are not too many main tv couples that have not had the entire universe thrown at them before they got their happy ending. I realize that we thought ASP was above this, but she wasn't.

caf123 · 04-07-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mots15 (View Post)

What if LL are married by 7.22? Maybe they.. eh.. elope at the end of 7.21 or something. That'd be something no one was expecting. Could be why Lorelai tells Luke "they" have to cancel the party. Maybe they planned it as a couple.

Do you mean they'll elope the same way they did in episode 6.14, or in 6.15, or 6.16, or 6.17 - or, all the way through 621, wasn't it?

The cancelled party is most likely Rory's graduation celebration, since Rory phones to say good-bye on her cell when she leaves too suddenly to even come say good-bye in person.

stephrox · 04-07-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voncey (View Post)

Yup -- even with the April storyline, they could have had two seasons of interesting and ultimately satisfying storylines about L/L dealing with complicated family and extended family problems. Seeing them dealing with it together would have been so much more interesting than watching the writers retcon or ignore much of GG history so Lorelai could make googly eyes at Deadbeat Dopey in a storyline that everyone and their dog could see was doomed from the start.

Bah. Lazy, stupid writers.

WORD!! The writers this year ignored LL history and completly destroyed Lorelais character by makign her seem so in love with Chris yada yada yada. What about those 22 yrs when he abandoned her only daughter. Suddenly Lorelai forgot about it and so did hte writers. How can i even beleive the things lorelai says and does to luke now, after i see how she totally forgot about luke and married deadbeat and told him she was in love with him etc. and acted like everythign between her and luke meant nothing to her. ugh ill never be over that. Yes ill be happy when LL say ILY to each other b/c i know they mean it but its Lorelais character i still haven't fully forgiven. I need to see her realize her mistakes etc

CineFille · 04-07-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

I realize that we thought ASP was above this, but she wasn't.

I never understood all the worshiping at the shrine of the Great AS-P. The SherPa was like any other tv writer (and worse at storytelling and plotting than a lot of them); she just dressed everything up in quirk and pop-culture references.

ETA:

Quote:

WORD!! The writers this year ignored LL history and completly destroyed Lorelais character by makign her seem so in love with Chris yada yada yada. What about those 22 yrs when he abandoned her only daughter. Suddenly Lorelai forgot about it and so did hte writers. How can i even beleive the things lorelai says and does to luke now, after i see how she totally forgot about luke and married deadbeat and told him she was in love with him etc. and acted like everythign between her and luke meant nothing to her. ugh ill never be over that. Yes ill be happy when LL say ILY to each other b/c i know they mean it but its Lorelais character i still haven't fully forgiven. I need to see her realize her mistakes etc

The writers didn't forget anything--in fact, they have been quite conscious of show (and L/L) history all season. They just didn't tell the story we wanted them to tell, and people are not going to be happy with them no matter what happens from here on out.

bec99 · 04-07-2007, 05:05 PM

Katie, thanks for the report! I'm jealous. The idea that the townies want Yale graduation to be a Stars Hollow field trip makes me laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leonana (View Post)

I think my biggest rant is about all the lost opportunities on this show.

TA on this one!

I tend to align more with the bitter crowd here, but I do feel compelled to say that I liked LL pretty well in early S6 and felt then that their behavior in that stretch boded well for the future. (Maybe because I wasn't spoiled? Maybe because I watch for the story not the anvils? Maybe because I'm naive? Maybe because I'm not naive about getting married a little older?) If it takes an out-of-the-natural-order event to highlight problems, maybe I don't believe that much in the problems.

But, as I have said before, I do think there needs to be some special symbol to show this time will be different.

Now, The Lake House is on...