Spoilers - Gilmore Girls ~ Luke/Lorelai Analysis & Speculation #301 - Page 18

apparition · 12-02-2006, 12:55 PM

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

It's also debatable whether the audience was asking for "good drama", or if Amy just panicked - on general TV 101 principles, or because she was burning out, or whyever.

Well doesn´t craving for drama and falling rates don´t go hand in hand? Sure we always say we want them to see happy, having a family - the whole package - together. But I´ll assure you that the rates would go down. Sure you would watch or LL fans would watch but the rest would just switch to some good old drama.

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

DR may think he's telling some deep psychological story. Or he may just have wanted to attract viewers with some "easy breezy" CL scenes after last year's unremitting angst.

"Easy breezy" scenes? Given the fact that they are in a relationship and now even married may include some of this easy breezy-ness. But just take a closer look at some of Lorelais comments to Sookie or to Rory and read the subcontext of some comments she made to Chris. I don´t want to list them one by one since it would be to long. But there are some happy scenes as THEY ARE HAPPY. Because LORELAI WANTS TO BE HAPPY NOW. Not thinking about the past. And that she´s a good actor was proven in S6. I am not saying she pretends to be happy but that she is bottling up all the pain and pretends that none of it happened.

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Online, critics are calling her a "skank".

Offline, people say Lorelai's changed, "the new writers destroyed her character". With the show's deteriorating dialogue, it leaves less and less reason to remember to tune in.

Well I guess critics can be wrong - I heard it happened.

But other than that: authentic characters change and don´t stay the same. Some call it bad dialogue and some call it developement of character.

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Around here, we boycott, we get angry, or we just can't face C/L. Out there, most viewers with busy lives simply don't bother.

I understand when some fans fast forward the LC scenes. Or they just don´t look an episode because it´s to painful - but you still have to be objective up to a certain point and not apply to double standard just because you don´t like a certain turn of events.

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Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Because ASP was trying to break up LL and DR is trying to keep CL together for 13 episodes.

Sometimes it's that simple.

But going down to this level - because ASP/DR wrote them to act like this - makes the whole discussion thread pretty pointless - don´t you think?
Instead you could ask why did they wrote it like this? Why did he have them act like this? What was the intention behind it?

lancer1993 · 12-02-2006, 01:22 PM

C&L may have started as "Easy Breezy" with a "meant to be" felling shoved down our throat this season but that is about to come to an end, ep 9 showed Lorelai hiding Chris, not wanting the party and ep 10 will carry that through to the point where Chris doubts Lorelai's commitment to them. In the next 4 eps it's gonna be anything but easy!

Mots15 · 12-02-2006, 01:32 PM

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Originally Posted by withbatedbreath (View Post)

crap Mots, thats a lotta people to buy x-mas presents for. You gonna be the cool aunt who always has gum?

Tell me about it. It's hard to be the cool aunt when the neices and nephews are all spread out, but I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

As for LL - I'm going to stay looking at the twinkle of a light that I see in the future.

Ugh, I'm making myself sick trying to be optimistic, lol. That's not good.

caf123 · 12-02-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apparition (View Post)

Well doesn´t craving for drama and falling rates don´t go hand in hand? Sure we always say we want them to see happy, having a family - the whole package - together. But I´ll assure you that the rates would go down. Sure you would watch or LL fans would watch but the rest would just switch to some good old drama.

You missed the point, which is the early seasons didn't show such TV-typical melodramatics. On the whole, characters stayed in character and storylines progressed naturally. That accounted for much of the appeal - and the audience grew.

Quote:

"Easy breezy" scenes? Given the fact that they are in a relationship and now even married may include some of this easy breezy-ness. But just take a closer look at some of Lorelais comments to Sookie or to Rory and read the subcontext of some comments she made to Chris. I don´t want to list them one by one since it would be to long. But there are some happy scenes as they are happy. Because Lorelai wants to be happy now. Not thinking about the past. And that she´s a good actor was proven in S6. I am not saying she pretends to be happy but that she is bottling up all the pain and pretends that none of it happened.

Did we need the caps? I thought we were friends in here.

"Easy-breezy" was a direct quote from Ausiello, reflecting the view in many quarters about DS/LG "chemistry".

My point was that Lorelai is constantly clinging to Christopher. Whether or not she seems happy, and how much the "Stepford" aspect is intentional, is besides the point. I'm hearing just too many comments that the independent, feisty, flawed, wise-cracking character whom viewers fell in love with is gone. And that's mostly from kids much younger than myself - as cnn-money's article over on the MT points out, "the CW skews to a younger audience that is very quick to move to and away from programs."

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Well I guess critics can be wrong - I heard it happened.
But other than that: authentic characters change and don´t stay the same. Some call it bad dialogue and some call it developement of character.

This is more like character assassination than character development.

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I understand when some fans fast forward the LC scenes. Or they just don´t look an episode because it´s to painful - but you still have to be objective up to a certain point and not apply to double standard just because you don´t like a certain turn of events.

Again, you're missing my point, which was that most viewers are more casual than us. They don't question why, they don't bother to fast-forward, basically, they don't stick around. They don't worry about of "loyalty" or long-term pay-offs, if they don't like something any more, they're out.

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But going down to this level - because ASP/DR wrote them to act like this - makes the whole discussion thread pretty pointless - don´t you think?
Instead you could ask why did they wrote it like this? Why did he have them act like this? What was the intention behind it?

Exactly. The last few years make a lot more sense if you look at the writers' intention rather than authentic character development.

In less than a year, they produced:

Grant Felony Yacht Theft
Long-Lost Daughter
Millionaire inheritance.

The only reason for such soapy melodramatics is the writers lost faith in, lost sight of, the characters themselves.

This year we've had a romantic Paris elopement with obligatory cardboard Eiffel Tower backdrop, coming fistfight between 2 men in a romantic triangle, courtroom drama ....look, we took another hit yesterday, I really didn't want to be more depressing.

BTW, I'd bet my bottom dollar that right now, LL are still the endgame.

Also that CL is more likely than not to end in 7.13.

lancer1993 · 12-02-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123

BTW, I'd bet my bottom dollar that right now, LL are still the endgame.

Also that CL is more likely than not to end in 7.13.

ITA - if they weren't then what is the point of this thread?

I still believe and I also believe no matter what tweaking has happened C&L are over by ep 13, we have not heard MA say DS has signed for an more eps that we don't already know about, IMO he would have added to his "tweak" comment if that had changed. The divorce may still not be final until the end of Feb sweeps or even the start of May sweeps but IMO it will happen.

vaso · 12-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123

BTW, I'd bet my bottom dollar that right now, LL are still the endgame.

Also that CL is more likely than not to end in 7.13.

And with this dose of optimism, goodnight everyone.

I still believe.

apparition · 12-02-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

You missed the point, which is the early seasons didn't show such TV-typical melodramatics. On the whole, characters stayed in character and storylines progressed naturally. That accounted for much of the appeal - and the audience grew.

I think I now understand what you meant. But than you´ve got to be mad at the audience because the writers just react to them. When they see the rates go down they either have two choices: adding more drama or adding more romance which would lead to more romance and so on. A lot of viewers would switch off. So they decide for the drama. I agree with you: TV has become more melodramatic. But that´s a common development all over TV. So this comes down to the question: Is the melodramatic believable? And that´s where we have probably different opinions. ASP justified the LLD sl that she wanted to show the problems of LL - the softspot in their character. She could´ve done it differently. Without a LLD. But with what? It had to be something major, something believable because other wise the audience would´ve said "Oh come on. Be a man." Now you can say the LLD is to dramatic - but unbelievable? To me Luke having a daughter he never knew of is believable, because it happens all the time. And Luke not telling Lorelai and shut her out - was this in character? Maybe that´s also a point where we have different opinions but to me - again - believable - hence the TH. Complementary Lorelais behaviour: Who is known for "being usually quite frank" shut´s up when she needs to speak up the most. Again - was this in character? I´d say yes. For the reason that she made the experience that when she spoke up she lost Rory. When she spoke up she lost Luke. Their weak spots did complement each other - it´s a vicious circle. On the bright side they can back together when they both break it. But I think there´s no need to disuss this since we agreed on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

Did we need the caps? I thought we were friends in here.

"Easy-breezy" was a direct quote from Ausiello, reflecting the view in many quarters about DS/LG "chemistry".

Sorry. It came out wrong and I didn´t read that interview so I ap

ologize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

My point was that Lorelai is constantly clinging to Christopher. Whether or not she seems happy, and how much the "Stepford" aspect is intentional, is besides the point. I'm hearing just too many comments that the independent, feisty, flawed, wise-cracking character whom viewers fell in love with is gone.

Than take this season just as something where Lorelai finds closing with Chris and can go back to the witty, wise cracking Lorelai.

[quote=caf123;12930749]
. . . most viewers are more casual than us. They don't question why, they don't bother to fast-forward, basically, they don't stick around. They don't worry about of "loyalty" or long-term pay-offs, if they don't like something any more, they're out.
/QUOTE]

But again whose to blame for that?

[quote=caf123;12930749]
The only reason for such soapy melodramatics is the writers lost faith in, lost sight of, the characters themselves.
/QUOTE]

I really get your disappointment. And trying to explain it with the money argument probably isn´t enough. But if the writers wouldn´t care about the characters at all they would´ve let them be static. Lorelai living happily with Rory who graduates from Yale with no problems and LL would´ve been married six years ago and have already two children. People grow up and make mistakes. But I sense that our disagreement is more how the writers achieve showing this developement. You may say Rory stealing the yacht was too melodramatic: The writers wanted to show in what a struggle Rory is. Finding her way to an own life. By doing something so un - Rory - like they demonstrated that very well. Could they´ve chosen another effect to show this? Probably. But would everyone understood that Rory is about to grow up?

What I trying to say is that drastic changes sometimes need drastic action. I agree with you that sometimes it is bit over the top as I don´t always need drastic to get the point. But at least admit it Luke and Chris in a fist fight - ain´t that a highlight or what

Quote:

Originally Posted by caf123 (View Post)

BTW, I'd bet my bottom dollar that right now, LL are still the endgame.

Also that CL is more likely than not to end in 7.13.

Wouldn´t dare to be bet against it.

Gagme · 12-02-2006, 04:27 PM

Okay whats wrong witht he main thread?

lancer1993 · 12-02-2006, 04:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Gagme (View Post)

Okay whats wrong witht he main thread?

It's working okay or are you talking about what is going on over there?

Gagme · 12-02-2006, 04:54 PM

I am talking about the lack of working collective brain cells.

Wheredidtheanvilsgo? · 12-02-2006, 05:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Gagme (View Post)

I am talking about the lack of working collective brain cells.

lancer1993 · 12-02-2006, 05:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Gagme (View Post)

I am talking about the lack of working collective brain cells.

Okay, see they have this tree and they like running around it when there is nothing new to talk about

copperboom · 12-02-2006, 05:40 PM

Went on a WB tour yesterday. Just wanted to let you all know they were already cleaning up the snow! They had swept/vacuumed a lot of it up from the ground, but the trees and rooftops weren't cleaned up yet. There was enough left to still look beautiful, though. The guide thought that next week there would be residual snow - piles here and there that hadn't "melted" yet.
Ouside of Lorelai's house there was quite a bit of snow still. We got to walk around in it there - it really sticks to your shoes, lol. The guide said it was cotton fibers or something like that. I'm happy to report that at least the mailbox still says just "Gilmore".
If anyone is interested in seeing pics let me know, and I'll be happy to share, assuming I can figure out how to post them. Snow IS magical - I'm feeling very optimistic today.

lancer1993 · 12-02-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperboom (View Post)

Went on a WB tour yesterday. Just wanted to let you all know they were already cleaning up the snow! They had swept/vacuumed a lot of it up from the ground, but the trees and rooftops weren't cleaned up yet. There was enough left to still look beautiful, though. The guide thought that next week there would be residual snow - piles here and there that hadn't "melted" yet.
Ouside of Lorelai's house there was quite a bit of snow still. We got to walk around in it there - it really sticks to your shoes, lol. The guide said it was cotton fibers or something like that. I'm happy to report that at least the mailbox still says just "Gilmore".
If anyone is interested in seeing pics let me know, and I'll be happy to share, assuming I can figure out how to post them. Snow IS magical - I'm feeling very optimistic today.

Oh thank you copperboom so they weren't giving any spoilers away this time?

I wonder if the snow is a sign, it might be in 2 eps at the most 11-12 and going by 13, when Lorelai falls on her pretty face will it be in ep 13 into a pile of snow/slush?

Nice to know the mail box is the same, how long before it DANES though?

Also with your permission could I please post some of your pics on my site?

copperboom · 12-02-2006, 06:08 PM

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Originally Posted by lancer1993 (View Post)

Oh thank you copperboom so they weren't giving any spoilers away this time?

I wonder if the snow is a sign, it might be in 2 eps at the most 11-12 and going by 13, when Lorelai falls on her pretty face will it be in ep 13 into a pile of snow/slush?

Nice to know the mail box is the same, how long before it DANES though?

Also with your permission could I please post some of your pics on my site?

Had a full tour, and not a very GG knowledgeable guide, so no spoilers really. But it was worth it just to see the snow - so pretty. I did see someone unloading a bunch of yellow "Gilmore" directional signs from their car, the kind they use when they are on location. They must have been filming off the lot the day before - just guessing, though.

Don't hold your breath on the pics, Lancer. It's going to take me awhile, lol.