Spoilers - Gilmore Girls ~ Luke/Lorelai Analysis & Speculation #301 - Page 15

**Katiegg108** · 12-02-2006, 07:49 AM

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Originally Posted by gjoni

Katie, I can't even be positive about that, because to me this whole so called epiphany of Lorelai is ridiculous, too. I don't see what she is or what she's going to learn that's new to her or anyone else on the show, or to us as fans.

It's not ridiculous to me... she's been putting all her feelings for Luke aside, practically shoving them so far away that she barely can face the fact that they were once tehre, and has been putting everything into CL. At this moment, she thinks she in love with Chris, and she still seems to blame Luke for everything. Her epiphany might not come as news to us, but it will be to her, imo. She'll have to realize that she played a part in all of this crap with LL, that Luke still loves her, that she doesn't love Chris even close to how she loves Luke, etc, etc, etc....

apparition · 12-02-2006, 08:09 AM

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Originally Posted by gjoni (View Post)

Katie, I can't even be positive about that, because to me this whole so called epiphany of Lorelai is ridiculous, too. I don't see what she is or what she's going to learn that's new to her or anyone else on the show, or to us as fans.

I wish I could be less bitter and sarcastic about LL being apart and our chance of ever seeing them in a satisfactory intimate partnership which they belong in.

Her ephany probably comes from two directions:

1) Realizing that LC marriage isn´t meant to be for the long haul. The explantion I liked so far the most is that they are too alike. Of course Richards health crises affect many relations: ER - ELR but the relation of LC as well. I got the feeling that´ll open L eyes how C works in difficult situations. Instead of acting he goes of complaining behind L back. And not only to anyone but to Emily. It´s like when he starts the fight in front of E in 7.10 . But when you are fighting with your wife you don´t go sulking to the mother of your wife. And consider another point: Even if L takes pity at C after he brought the knit-a-thon to a sudden end or he bribed the restaurant to open up it shows that C uses his money to be liked. As an single action it might be sweet of him but I´ll just think that´s his way of handling things.

2) She´ll recognize that LL failing was also her fault as she didn´t spoke up. That she needn´t to be married to be truely happy.

From our point of view Lorelai could´ve figured it out a long time ago. But people sometimes just grow and learn after doing things wrong. We saw Rory growing up after making painful decisions and we´ll see Lorelai raise as well.

I don´t like that they are apart either but the two different journeys they are on are believeable - to me at least. They both deal with their problems that lead them to so many broken relationships - apart. But in my mind there´s no doubt that they´ll be together at the end of the season.

gjoni · 12-02-2006, 08:12 AM

But nothing will be new. She already knows she loves luke and why, she said that in Partings, she knows she will always love Chris in some capacity, him being the father of her kid, she knows she's a complicated person, having said so herself, and it goes on and on. These are all things that were not only shown, but spoken, as well.

It might be great drama to watch if and when it comes, and I hope it is since I do want to be able to enjoy the show, but IMO it won't be anything new, and therefore I see it as wasting precious time.

~~ CherylS ~~ · 12-02-2006, 08:27 AM

I sure wouldn't have gone down this path with L&L either. Sometimes in television you have a rare relationship that people just enjoy watching. I think L&L were just that. But since ASP decided to split them up and add this stupid LLD storyline...

To me Lorelai believed Luke when he said he was over it because she had been feeling it for months. Then during a calmer moment he told her they weren't right for each other and someday they could go back to being friends. So for me Luke is totally out of the picture to Lorelai. She is just trying to move on. Doesn't really matter if deep down inside she knows Luke is the one - in her mind Luke just doesn't feel the same. That's the way I have felt all season. When the man you really want doesn't want you, you either mope or get on with life. (I think she believed his words because most of the time he has told her the truth and she had been feeling him pull away since April came on the scene.) I think her intention was to take it slow with Chris but this is tv and maybe the last season so things have to advance quickly.
Somewhere along the line I think we are going to see both of them feel their magnetic pull is just something that will not go away and that they were both crazy to try to be apart. The big point of this storyline for me isn't about any of this though...it's about if this is the last season. As soon as the writers know what is going on, the path will finally be set and we may get a clue.

Mots15 · 12-02-2006, 08:36 AM

The storyline might be changing, but it doesn't mean we won't get the same outcome.

apparition · 12-02-2006, 09:05 AM

But the relationship between LC was never fully closed. There was always this "what if" hanging in the air. So the opportunity of a LC union was there. Now there´s no objective excuse why they shouldn´t be together. Except Lorelai using the new relationship to forget the old one. Luke might have told her that its over and that they are not meant to - so did Lynnie - so did Emily and so did Chris himself. She´s using this excuse to keep the truth from Luke a last time. When she went to Chris she wanted to be sure - it has to be no - BECAUSE IT WAS TO HARD. Not because she thought it wasn´t meant to be but because she couldn´t stand to be shut out anymore. But instead of thinking of her contribution to the break up - her fake smiles and not giving any clue - she fell back to her old habit. Taking the easy way out.
When she would´ve told the bumper story to Luke instead of Sookie things might have ended differently. And if Luke would´ve said: You slept with Christopher. So what. I take half the blame on me. I want to make this work with you. How would she reacted than? With telling the truth?

Lorelai gave up first on their relationship.

And Luke being no multi-tasker: We knew that. He also told Lorelai at Marthas Vinyard.

But so far there was no reason he has to change it. Except now that he is alone with April. At the beginning he´ll fight against the feeling that he can do it on his own. But Liz and TJ living the happy family will show "What could´ve been." And for this he needs to learn how to multi-task.

There´s no question that they not love each other. But their own problems stood in their way. Luke-table-for-one-Danes and Lorelai-I-need-an-industrial-forke-lift-for-my-emotional-baggage need separate journeys to overcome them.

Both might be convinced that it over right now. But sometimes action speaks louder than words.

~~ CherylS ~~ · 12-02-2006, 09:13 AM

Exactly so this story is not so awful to me. It's just part of the process. I know I'm more casual about all of this and I don't find Chris to be the devil but I don't mind (don't like it) this detour since I can't do anything about it. I sure wouldn't have gone this way but ASP had this stick up her butt and it is what we got. I don't blame Lorelai for not talking more to Luke. She tried he just wouldn't listen and for me she was trying to let him do it his way. Last year that's what he insisted on and so for me she's trying to be a more patient Lorelai. Problem is it's hard to change your basic core and both of them need to see and deal with that. I don't think Lorelai gave up, I think there wasn't much to give up on at that point. Luke was so into his own problems he just put her to the side. While some think that's okay he needed to deal with his daugher, I find it unhealthy to just put all your being into one problem. (Which in this case is really not a problem but a good thing that came as a shock/surprise.) To me he should have shared and even if he didn't want input, he would have had a partner who at least knew what was going on instead of being left wondering...
I was just more disappointed in Luke keeping this a secret than I was in Lorelai trying to adapt to Luke's compartmental ways. That at least I understood. So here's to all of this working out -- starting soon!!

Joannathe1 · 12-02-2006, 09:14 AM

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Somewhere along the line I think we are going to see both of them feel their magnetic pull is just something that will not go away and that they were both crazy to try to be apart. The big point of this storyline for me isn't about any of this though...it's about if this is the last season. As soon as the writers know what is going on, the path will finally be set and we may get a clue.

When Cheryl, when we don't care anymore or when we all have ulcers?

Even if someone is moving on with their lives, there is a time you stop and reflect. I don't think Lorelai has any reflection. I wonder if she looks at herself anymore. She's glue to C's side so much she have no identity anymore just an extension of him. Whatever he wants she gives in. I can't see that changing anytime soon.

What irritate more so much with this sl is that whatever C wants, C. gets and after this tweaking of sl I somehow can't see anything changing in L/L happy fans direction soon.

Joanna~

~~ CherylS ~~ · 12-02-2006, 09:26 AM

Truthfully I just don't worry about it that much. It's just a storyline to me. If she stays with Chris, I'll live. I just like this show and I like all of the characters so however it goes I'm okay. I've always loved L&L but I just don't get Luke being all about April and having nothing left for a personal relationship. Just doesn't compute in my world and I think he's finding that out now. If Anna takes April to NM, even with visitation Luke's going to be a lonely man. I'm really curious how this is all going to go and how or if we are going to get our lovely couple back so we can appeciate them all the more. Right now I guess I have to appreciate them separately.

damselfly · 12-02-2006, 09:45 AM

Interesting comments from MA in the podcast. Is it possible that they're tweaking it so the source of conflict between C/L isn't Chris off sulking? We know Chris gets mad in 7.12 over the content of the letter, so maybe the trouble between them comes to a head over that?

apparition · 12-02-2006, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by ~~ CherylS ~~ (View Post)

Exactly so this story is not so awful to me. It's just part of the process. I know I'm more casual about all of this and I don't find Chris to be the devil but I don't mind (don't like it) this detour since I can't do anything about it. I sure wouldn't have gone this way but ASP had this stick up her butt and it is what we got.

I don´t like that LL aren´t together at the moment as well and I could´ve lived without LC. There are always different ways of telling a story. ASP/DR chosed this one: partly because they like the twists but partly because the audience wants to see good drama. I mean we always say "Oh I stop watching when that is happening" but the truth is we come back as we want to see how it plays out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~~ CherylS ~~ (View Post)

I don't blame Lorelai for not talking more to Luke. She tried he just wouldn't listen and for me she was trying to let him do it his way.

Last year that's what he insisted on and so for me she's trying to be a more patient Lorelai.

Problem is it's hard to change your basic core and both of them need to see and deal with that.

BUT WHY DON´T YOU blame her. It´s like Lorelai telling him in 7.01 "I gave you every chance" That implied she gave him more than one or two opportunities to get the clue. BUT SHE JUST KEPT HER MOUTH SHUT. You could turn the remark around and say Luke gave her every chance to tell something was wrong. But that wouldn´t be totally true either. The most significant moment of Lukes cluelessness was when he didn´t went after Lorelai for damage controll after she pulled the ultimatum.
And when he told her to stay away he also told her afterwards to "Keep thinking like you´ll think". So they both messed up. But the blame for failing is at both on them - equally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~~ CherylS ~~ (View Post)

I don't think Lorelai gave up, I think there wasn't much to give up on at that point.
Luke was so into his own problems he just put her to the side. While some think that's okay he needed to deal with his daugher, I find it unhealthy to just put all your being into one problem. (Which in this case is really not a problem but a good thing that came as a shock/surprise.) To me he should have shared and even if he didn't want input, he would have had a partner who at least knew what was going on instead of being left wondering...
I was just more disappointed in Luke keeping this a secret than I was in Lorelai trying to adapt to Luke's compartmental ways. That at least I understood. So here's to all of this working out -- starting soon!!

Their future was on stake at this moment. And by not speaking up or not opening the passenger door they both risked it to easy.
I agree with you - he should´ve told her and he should involved her more into his life. But not asking for help hurt her probably the most. The shutting out of his life and not asking her - the great mom - for advice. But I think it doesn´t make much sense to discuss what was worse. At the end both contributed to fall. Luke dumped some of his own insecurities on Lorelai but you can´t close your eyes to the fact that Luke shutting Lorelai out equals to Lorelai not giving him a hint. She can speak openly to Chris but feels like she couldn´t say a word to Luke? Why´s that?

withbatedbreath · 12-02-2006, 10:16 AM

Tree! Tree!

So if we're getting an actual court scene, do we think Lorelai may hafta testify in person? I hope not 'cause it'll just put the drama level over the top, but I see the judge asking Luke why it took him so long to do anything after finding out about April.

Fridaynightdinner · 12-02-2006, 10:22 AM

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Originally Posted by withbatedbreath (View Post)

Tree! Tree!

So if we're getting an actual court scene, do we think Lorelai may hafta testify in person? I hope not 'cause it'll just put the drama level over the top, but I see the judge asking Luke why it took him so long to do anything after finding out about April.

There was no reason to do anything because Anna let April be with him.

jalapeno_wildchild · 12-02-2006, 10:24 AM

if the judge were to ask the Luke would say that he didn't know April exsisted until she was 12 when she started looking for her father, that Anna never even bothered to tell him that she gave birth to their child. i think the fact would come up somewhere that Luke and Anna had a nice arrangement so Luke felt no need to seek out partial custody until Anna told him she and April were moving to NM.

damselfly · 12-02-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by withbatedbreath (View Post)

Tree! Tree!

So if we're getting an actual court scene, do we think Lorelai may hafta testify in person? I hope not 'cause it'll just put the drama level over the top, but I see the judge asking Luke why it took him so long to do anything after finding out about April.

If she planned to testify in person, there would be no need for her to write a letter.