Spoilers - Gilmore Girls ~ All In For Season 8 ~ Luke/Lorelai Analysis & Speculation #385 - Page 15

Shu · 04-14-2007, 05:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post)

Woah, get OUT of my head lol. I used to absolutely, unconditionally adore Lorelai. She could do nothing wrong in my eyes because girlfriend stood up to her rich parents and raised her daughter on her own and worked her butt off and achieved her dream.

Then Christopher showed up. Again. And Again. And Again. Now I know we all have our weaknesses, or Achielle's heel. But at the same time this great guy was in front of her taking care of Rory without expecting anything in return. He was totally selfless in his love for her and her daughter, even while watching her engaged to someone else (c'mon, he made her a chuppah for her wedding to the other guy!), watched her breakdown when Christopher broke her heart again, protected her daughter agst her stupid boyfriends and probably emptied his bank account when she needed money. He endured the whithering insults from her mother, all kinds of attacks on his manhood, had to swallow his pride a couple of times, took care of her dog, renovated her house....and he still adored her. He probably loved her too much, because the moment he turned his attention elsewhere and gave her less than she was used to, she couldn't handle it. He created this situation where she took his 100% devotion for granted. Even she admitted to Sookie that he does so much for her, she should let him have his grandmother's fugly furniture; but she couldn't. It was then that I realized Lorelai was basically a selfish person. Maybe she lived too singularly for too long; except for Rory, she only had to take care of herself and her needs. And she became used to Luke taking care of her, sometimes at a moments notice too.

So sometime in the last two years, the show became about Luke and his happiness. And darn it, if that's Lorelai, then I want him to have her. But for his happiness, not hers. I guess that means I am watching the wrong show. Sigh.

Oh and about The Phila Story, don't forget in the end Cary Grant saves the cancelled wedding by talking Katherine Hepburn into marrying him. Just sayin'.

if you are than so am I.

rootin4ll · 04-14-2007, 05:46 PM

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Originally Posted by withbatedbreath (View Post)

I don't believe it said anything, MA just hinted that he had read the finale script, but gave away nothing.

Thanks

Saranoh · 04-14-2007, 05:46 PM

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Originally Posted by commodore (View Post)

But...that's the point. If Lorelai is using this song to tell Luke in a (in her view) heartfelt way that she will always love him, then why are further realizations needed? It stinks of dragging out this story until the very last moment.

Nobody ever said that further realizations were needed. That's my point.

Shu · 04-14-2007, 05:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

Nobody ever said that further realizations were needed. That's my point.

i think dr did more damage to lorelai this year than even he realized. Some people just don't think the sun rises and sets around lorelai's bum anymore.

clmorrow · 04-14-2007, 05:50 PM

Oh, I didn't forget - I love the scene when Cary Grant gets his girl back in the end. I also liked how his character was there for her even when she was no longer with him and was marrying someone else - he was still a good friend to her then.

I loved the line where Hepburn tells him "I'm an unholy mess of a girl" - reminded me very much of Lorelai. They ought to just lift that line word for word and have her say it to Luke - that I'd buy.

ETA: Oh, and welcome to the inside of my head.

Saranoh · 04-14-2007, 05:51 PM

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Originally Posted by genki (View Post)

i think dr did more damage to lorelai this year than even he realized. Some people just don't think the sun rises and sets around lorelai's bum anymore.

I certainly don't think it does either. But that doesn't mean that I don't think she's still a generally good person.

commodore · 04-14-2007, 05:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

Nobody ever said that further realizations were needed. That's my point.

And so people are pissed because progressing the story appears to have been abandoned in favor of repeating the same realization twice in three episodes, and that's why some people are pissed about this spoiler. That's my point.

Shu · 04-14-2007, 05:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

I certainly don't think it does either. But that doesn't mean that I don't think she's still a generally good person.

i must disagree, I think you do think that the sun rises and sets around her very whim and thats your right. I prefer to focus my hero-worship on Luke. He's a character I can relate to a lot easier. He's less high-maintenance. I'm just not a high maintenance sort of gal and in rl the lorelai's of this world piss me off.

Saranoh · 04-14-2007, 05:57 PM

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Originally Posted by genki (View Post)

i must disagree, I think you do think that the sun rises and sets around her very whim and thats your right.

Lorelai is my favorite character, therefore her flaws don't seem to bother me as much. That doesn't mean that I don't realize the fact that she's incredibly screwed up.

bec99 · 04-14-2007, 05:59 PM

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Originally Posted by voncey (View Post)

I'd rather see Lorelai have her "epiphany" about Luke in just about any other situation -- mid-rant about something Taylor does because she loves RantingLuke, or have her see him do something nice for Kirk or see him treat Liz or April with the gentleness that we've all seen.

In addition, Lorelai appreciating something quotidian might have more force with me.

I do think Rory and the town will be the motivating factors for the party. We've been discussing how this will be spun in the episode. This could prove Luke's wonderful nature to Lorelai, but could it be the other way around? Luke doing something nice makes Lorelai think she's got a shot? Although if that's still unclear by 7.22, oy with the molasses already! The thing I'm struggling with is how you get from the karaoke to the surprise party without something definitive occurring. That's an episode and a half.

I don't think the writers will ever be able to repair the damage from Lorelai's mistakes well (Luke's are easier to fix, however you apportioned blame), but I am pleased that they seem to be giving her a lot of the heavy-lifting in repairing the relationship.

I'm another who watched as a huge Lorelai fan. Unfortunately, in my frustration, I didn't really transition to Team Luke as well as the rest of you. So I guess I'm the one in the corner sucking her hair.

ETA I didn't have a problem with the grandma fugly furniture incident. Reminded me of the time my Dad got my Mom this godawful outfit for Christmas. Not quite sure how she smoothed that one over, but she certainly never did wear it.

clmorrow · 04-14-2007, 06:06 PM

Yeah, Luke's low-maintenance and big heart - and his cynicsm and humor - is much more my type of character. I think Lorelai is a fine person - the writers just ruined my previous enjoyment of the character by having her behavior be so hurtful.

And, Lorelai's the type of person/character who drives me mad in real life. The constant yammering and quipping - some of which is fine in small does but it is exhausting because usually these types of folks expect reactions to their continual yacking/quipping - which I find tiresome.

I chalked up her relationship missteps in earlier seasons, before Luke, to the fact that she probably matured more slowly in the relationship department than a lot of us because she had a child so young and was focused on earning a living and raising her even while a bit of child herself. Other people date through high school, move onto other people in college and after but she pretty much came to a screeching halt with Chris and the pregnancy.

I got the impression there were really no serious men in her life until she was probably in her late 20s or so. So, her behavior with Max seemed understandable to me - the not thinking of how their lives would change when she got married; she just didn't seem to have the experience to really grasp what was about to happen to them.

But by the time she got together and spent a few years with Luke I would never have expected her to react to Luke's screwing up in the hurtful, immature way she did. That is just my take, obviously.

lancer1993 · 04-14-2007, 06:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Saranoh (View Post)

Where does it say that Luke needs to prove himself to Lorelai? The spoiler says nothing about that.

And why(this is not directed at anyone in particular) does everything also need to come back to Chris? There's nothing that even implies that the ONLY reason Lorelai loves Luke is because he loves her and Rory. I just don't understand why we're reading doom and gloom into something that should make us happy.

ITA, I hope it backs up to show Lorelai did good and finally made the right choice after the last year.

Has lorelaisgirl been around for the podcast TS?

nst · 04-14-2007, 06:28 PM

all these moments - i would rather hear the words than anticpate the so called moments - i never saw any moments this season - i saw them in seasons 1-4 and some thru five - but all these moments that we are to anticapte (sp) make them tlak to each now thats a moment = if Lorelai still doesn't appreicate him i don't know what to say anymore

nst · 04-14-2007, 06:33 PM

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Originally Posted by clmorrow (View Post)

So, Lorelai still needs to have Luke doing something considerate to figure out the guy is a good guy? Sheesh - what does this guy have to do for her to get it already? Honestly, the idea that she needs to have yet another reminder is just another weak creative ploy....lazy and uncreaative.

Either she didn't believe what she wrote in the character reference or she did - because if she did, she wouldn't have another "ah ha" moment of realization that he's a "wonderful" man - well, I guess I'll have to see how it plays out.

i am tired of these ah ha moments that never come across as genuine on screen
especially this season

- somone needs to mail DSR the ep Luke can see his face now that is an ha moment followed by R&R when they scream and kiss - let these people talk - I miss that part - let the emotions out

nst · 04-14-2007, 06:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Ciaobella (View Post)

I totally agree with both of you. After seven years, two of them painfully heartbreaking, this is the payoff? That Lorelai remembers what a great guy Luke is and how much he cares for Rory? Geesh, we could have had Lynnie come back for a cameo appearance and remind her.

I want to her to realize that he was never just the guy who poured her coffee. I don't think singing some overwrought torchsong while drunk is going to do it either. I'd like to see the same level of honest emotion that she expressed with Christopher. I guess it could happen, but honestly, if it's all about how well Luke treats her and Rory, then that's weak. He's always cared for both of them. She already realized it and documented it in the letter of recommendation.

Ugh. Luke is more than good enough for her. He's too good for her.

I want her to Talk out loud about he was never just that. !!! -Talk thats what these two did best